The 3.6L redesign and casting problems?

[FCrackerJLRubi]

First is there anyone out there that has personally experienced any of these casting problems? I only recently learned about it, something about potential rust/debris in the cooling system coming from the way the heads were cast? I am still trying to get details on that whole thing.

Next, whats new on the 3.6L that we got improved fuel economy, the power out and ft-lbs are the same since 2012 when the motor was brought out. The JL when 3.6 equipped weighs ~115lbs more than the JK (on average, different trims are different but close enough), so the only real improvements are the 8 speed auto, and wind drag reduction. 4 MPGs on average over the JK seems like a huge boost for just minor wind drag tweaks and an 8 speed thrown in.

The motor physically changed as far as how its configured from the outside, but its still the same old block and components right? Upgraded fuel and air delivery? Just curious whats different and I could not find much about the specifics out there.

I am all for the redesign, especially considering I wont be touching it until after the warranty wears out. From the looks of it we dont even have to pull the engine cover to change the oil anymore! Looks like serp belt changing is going to be a now though!

New then old

Sponsored

 

[DanW]

What casting problems? The 2012's? This reads like there are casting problems on the 2018 version. I've not read that or heard about it, so please post the source, if this is the case.

I think if you look more deeply into the 3.6, you'll find the updated version is significantly changed to the point where I doubt there is much commonality in parts with the gen 1.

My buddy, btw, has a 2012 in his Rubi and has had no issues. He's got about 40k, and Jeep extended the warranty on those engines.

 

[Dynomite1371]

I got 95k on my 2012 JKU before I traded it in on the JL. In 2012 (first year), there was an issue on earlier drivers sides heads (depending on production dates). So early on, there was panic on new owners behalf, fCA seemed to figure out the issue rather quickly and finally got the heads in and extended the vehicles warranty. I can't remember exactly the issue but the head effectively burnt out (something to do with header design.) I never had the issue but many did. I venture to say that thoses issues have been long resolved. I have no fear going with the V6 again. It's been a great motor, and coupled with a better transmission it will only be better. IMHO.

 

[Jeepsterfreak]

The JL when 3.6 equipped weighs ~115lbs more than the JK (on average, different trims are different but close enough), so the only real improvements are the 8 speed auto, and wind drag reduction. 4 MPGs on average over the JK seems like a huge boost for just minor wind drag tweaks and an 8 speed thrown in.

JL also adds front axle disonnect when in 2H. Not sure how much mpg that might add. Front axle disconnect was not used in JK or TJ but was in the YJ.

 

[Matt The Hammer]

The issue that's being referred to is the cooling system issues with sludge build up in the system that clogs up the heater core.

It's a well known issue.

FCA is currently in court regarding this. There have been some judgements made regarding the case. The case is Mooradian et al v. FCA US LLC. You can google it for updates.

https://dockets.justia.com/docket/ohio/ohndce/1:2017cv01132/234224

FCA went after how the Mooradians collected their coolant from their JK engine and had the judge dismiss it for not being done correctly. It's a shame too because there is a real issue with these engines that causes sludge to build up in the system and kill the heater core and other parts.

I have a non-legal opinion of what it may be. The consensus is that it's left over sand on the heads from being sand cast. FCA has said in the past that the heads are cleaned extremely well and that there is nothing left. Seems to me that this would be obviously done. My opinion is that the current 'long life' coolant is an issue and breaks down in the engine.

Regardless, FCA's team knows exactly what's going on. They've sent some bulletins to the dealers regarding how to address issues with the driver's side of the dash no longer blowing warm air when the heat is on. They suggest power flushing the system to remove debris that built up in it. Yet these are engines with less than 50k miles filled from the factory with Mopar's own 'long life coolant'.

So the Mooradians were able to sue FCA regarding their issues from this well known problem. FCA's legal team is now cutting their case apart over technicalities sampling the Mooradian's coolant. If there wasn't an obvious issue, FCA would just defend their design and parts and win this easily.

Wit this defense, it's obvious that they have to use other tactics to make this go away.

It's sad.

Here's what's happening now:

December 14, 2017 67
Opinion or Order of the Court Opinion & Order signed by Judge James S. Gwin on 12/14/17 granting in part defendant's motion for sanctions for spoliation of evidence. The Court prohibits plaintiffs from using any evidence obtained from the events described in this opinion in their motions for class certification, dispositive motions, or at trial. The Court disqualifies plaintiff White from serving as a class representative. (Related Doc. 46 ) (D,MA)

November 30, 2017 62
Opinion or Order of the Court Opinion & Order signed by Judge James S. Gwin on 11/30/17. The Court directs plaintiff Frey not to include confidential discovery documents received in the Mooradian litigation in his complaint without defendant's approval. This order is not intended to prevent plaintiffs from citing to any documents in their dispositive motions or any other relevant filing. (Related Doc. 58 ) (D,MA)

October 27, 2017 37
Opinion or Order of the Court Opinion & Order signed by Judge James S. Gwin on 10/27/17. The Court, for the reasons set forth in this order, grants defendant's motion to dismiss plaintiffs' breach of express warranty, breach of implied warranty, Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, and Ohio Consumer Sales Practices Act claims. The Court denies defendant's motion to dismiss plaintiffs' negligence claims, diminished value claims, and class certification-based claims. (Related Doc. 30 ) (D,MA)

The Mooradians for whatever reason went to some quick lube place and had their coolant system drained and re-filled. The service techs then gave the used coolant to the Mooradians to use in the case. FCA attacked the way it was collected and stored and is winning. It's sad that they did such a bad job at collecting the coolant and storing it. Personally I don't know why FCA couldn't have it drained and collected at their facility and split between the two parties. Better yet, why didn't the Mooradians take their Jeep directly to a lab and have it done all at one shot with both parties there to witness? Kills me that they have to do all this themselves. Sad that they are dropping the ball too.

I don't expect anything to come from this of value to us owners. Nor do I expect this issue to go away.

I'd advise everyone to stay ahead of it. Annual flushing the system if you keep the Mopar stuff in. Or just swap it out for a different coolant (Prestone) like I do.

Sorry for the long post.

 

[FCrackerJLRubi]

What casting problems? The 2012's? This reads like there are casting problems on the 2018 version. I've not read that or heard about it, so please post the source, if this is the case.

I think if you look more deeply into the 3.6, you'll find the updated version is significantly changed to the point where I doubt there is much commonality in parts with the gen 1.

My buddy, btw, has a 2012 in his Rubi and has had no issues. He's got about 40k, and Jeep extended the warranty on those engines.

No sorry for the confusion I am not referencing the 2018 motor, I was trying to find out more about it, and apparently its the 2012 motor specifically...and only a certain production timeline for those motors (which I might own as it turns out lol). Currently 78k on mine and no issues...maybe I shoudl flush the coolant system....or just continue on as normal and trade it in for the JL as planned

 

[Matt The Hammer]

My 2013 JKUR had the same issue. I don't think it was specific as much as you may think with the 2012s. Although my '13 was manufactured in 2012 FWIW.

 

[Matt The Hammer]

For those that don't know.

The newer JKs switched to an OAT type coolant. It's pinkish purple in color. It's an FCA color dye for them to tell which type it is (as opposed to coolant green). It forms a sludge after time and likes to collect in the heater core. When it's clogged up, the driver side of the dash won't blow warm air anymore. replacing the core on a JK is a huge feat (dash removal, etc.) - so it sucks bad.

By the time to have the cold air issue happening, your core is likely gone.

Here's what the sludge looks like at the bottom of the overflow bottle:

Here's the coolant in a mason's jar:

It's just not the JKs that have this issue. It's all the FCA rides that use the same OAT coolant. The above mason jar is from a Chrysler 200.

 

[Matt The Hammer]

The newer JKs use the OAT. The pre 2012s used the HOAT type. Here's the two Mopar types side by side.

The HOAT is actually orange. The OAT is the purple or dark pink color one. In the tank, looking down, the purple OAT will look orange in color. This confuses a lot of people. The lighting and the milky white plastic tank makes it look that color.

 

[offcamber]

I have a 2012 that has had 3 head replacements due to issues. I have 91,000 miles on mine and it had the radiator and water pump replaced at 40K miles due to "clogging". I first heard about the issue with sand in the engine from a friend with a 2014 that just started experiencing problems and noticed over a 1/4 inch of sand like stuff at the buttom of his overflow bottle and the first time it got cold he noticed his heater was only working on one side of the Jeep. Took it in and they had to replace the radiator and heater core. Fast forward about two weeks and my Jeep started running a bit hot (over 250 degs). I took it in and $1800 later I'm out of the shop with the radiator, water pump and oil cooler replaced due to "clogging". It's definitely not just a 2012 problem. I know of at least one person with a 2016 with the issue as well. Be aware that Chrysler does not consider this THEIR issue and you will pay out of pocket in most cases.

 

[jeppesen.io]

So, is the take away to replace the coolant every 30k miles or something?

Are there still issues with OAT?

Changing the coolant is very cheap.

Or maybe just use Evans Waterless coolant and forget about it.

 

[offcamber]

No clue what the real solution is or what the real problem actually is. I have just seen all the other reports. Mine had a full flush with the first radiator replacement but apparently it didn't help. My solution is to either stay away from the Pentastar or if you do get one, get a lifetime extended warranty.

 

[Rubi]

I had a ‘12 JKR with the infamous head problem. My situation was some of the cast passageways in the head, that circulate the engine oil to the hydraulic lifters, were never properly formed, restricting oil flow. My factory ordered JKR lasted about 1k miles from new when it began losing power and displaying fault code lights. One of my heads was replaced, obviously, under full warranty.

Back then, 2012, this was a huge problem; it was all over the internet. FCA had so many customers with this problem that they couldn’t make heads fast enough to supply new production and these faulty head replacements. The majority of the dealers knew about it but some were trying to blow people off due to the lack of inventory.

I sold mine a couple of years later because I had valve train tapping at cold startup and I was aware of the manual tranny having problems.

If anyone else has problems or knowledge of this coolant clogging problem, I would hope they would reveal this info. Hopefully it was just bad coolant chemistry and FCA has it straightened out on the Gen 2 Pentastar. You would need a lot of left behind casting sand to clog a cooling system. This does sound like improper coolant chemistry.

 

[offcamber]

so what does the coolant form? The stuff that was in mine looked like extremely fine sand. I think the coolant causes it to bunch up into a mud like substance but once it dried it was like sand.

 

[DanW]

I've run HOAT Chrysler coolant in mine and had it replaced twice, once at 5 years, and once at 10. I've had no issues with my cooling system on my 3.8. My intention is to change out the coolant in the JL at 5 years, whatever the mileage.

I ran Dexcool in all my GM vehicles when everybody was saying it was bad and would sludge up. I never had an issue. I replaced them at 5 years, as well. None of my vehicles has made it to 100k miles in 5 years, though. 60k at most.

I've always inspected the coolant reservior in all of them whenever I change the oil. I've never seen sludge. On another note, I've got friends who ran Prestone in their JK's and had heater cores clog up. They were 3.8's and specified HOAT coolant. I don't believe the Prestone was HOAT.

Sad to hear some have had trouble. I hope they don't have these kinds of issues. That said, I don't know a single friend or aquaintance in the Jeep clubs who doesn't love his or her Pentastar. I've not encountered anyone onther than my good friend who has a 2012. His runs great, so far, but I'll be alerting him to check his coolant. It might be a good time for him to change it, anyway.

Sponsored