Outrun

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That's another thing the Bronco peeps don't understand. They think the 4.7 gear ratio is superior, which it is not because the transmissions and transfer cases are completely different.

The Bronco with 4.7 is not a good thing. To match the Jeep they would need much deeper gears than what is available when you start getting into the big boy tires sizes.
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Headbarcode

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That's another thing the Bronco peeps don't understand. They think the 4.7 gear ratio is superior, which it is not because the transmissions and transfer cases are completely different.

The Bronco with 4.7 is not a good thing. To match the Jeep they would need much deeper gears than what is available when you start getting into the big boy tires sizes.
My JLUR with the 2.0/8-speed combo barely notices the 38's. With zero intention of towing anything, swapping out the factory 4.10's isn't even a blip on the radar. She still jumps off the light, breaking tires if I get a bit too saucy, and runs up to speed without having to scream the motor much past 4k. In my opinion, adding some pep that I don't seem to be missing, isn't worth the loss of mesh real estate in the ring and pinion that comes with shorter gears.
 

gato

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That's another thing the Bronco peeps don't understand. They think the 4.7 gear ratio is superior, which it is not because the transmissions and transfer cases are completely different.

The Bronco with 4.7 is not a good thing. To match the Jeep they would need much deeper gears than what is available when you start getting into the big boy tires sizes.
Most people regear because of on-road performance. On road and on 4HI the transfer case of both the Jeep and Bronco is 1:1, so the gear ratio is better on 37th.

For all models of Jeep except certain Rubicon models (e.g. 2.0 and 3.6) the transfer case gearing is 2.72. So even in 4LO the high volume sellers will benefit from the Sasquatch 4.7 gearing.
 

gato

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You edited out the majority of my original post, which was directed towards another members post that had nothing to do with gearing or tire poke legality.

The actual point of my post was to share a personal finding. That factory 33' appeal to not only other JL models but also JK's, pickups, H2's, etc. My particular set of 35's ended up on another JL Rubicon that was readily able to fit them. So like I said, 35's from the factory are great for those who would've done that anyway.
Sorry, Was not my intention to misquote you. If your main point was that 33s are easier to sell than 35s, I take your word for it.

But how is that a factor?

Bronco offers 32/33 and 35s on every Bronco model 2-door, 4-door, base, Badlands, etc. So buyers can choose.

Jeep only offers 35s on 4-door, only on Rubicon, only with Auto, only on 2 of the several engines. So no choice.
 

gato

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Let’s face it, by the time Ford designs a new top, builds several prototypes, tests that they work, switches production processes, ramps up production, replaces the tops on 4,000 Broncos that were already delivered, and on the 4,000 Broncos that spent months sitting outside, and starts mounting the new tops on new Broncos coming out of the assembly line, Tommy will be 30 years old, married with two kinds, and will have traded his 2021 Willys for a 2028 Toyota FJ Cruiser 4-door....with crank windows 😫
Undeniable that Ford has messed up as much as it could have been messed up the Bronco launch. In fact they have been the single most disrupted auto manufacturer by supply chain issues post Covid.
 

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Sorry, Was not my intention to misquote you. If your main point was that 33s are easier to sell than 35s, I take your word for it.

But how is that a factor?

Bronco offers 32/33 and 35s on every Bronco model 2-door, 4-door, base, Badlands, etc. So buyers can choose.

Jeep only offers 35s on 4-door, only on Rubicon, only with Auto, only on 2 of the several engines. So no choice.
My point was cut and dry. 35's are great for those who would've got them anyway. For those like myself, who want bigger, 33's have a lower initial cost and are doable on a wider spectrum of other trims within the model and even other vehicles.

This is not another Wrangler vs Bronco post, but one that holds true to both. The 33's off a Rubicon could go right on a Sport, just like 33's off a Badlands could go right on a Base. But 35's couldn't, without a lift.
 

Whaler27

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No complaints either. I really like the seat height adjustment too. Really handy off-road when trying to see obstacles over the hood.
I’m good with the adjustment mechanism, but after 43 years of owning Jeep’s the JL is the first generation I‘ve owned that I can’t fit in properly. I have the seat all the way down and I still have to lean way down and left to see a stop light turn green… My head is only a half inch from the sound bar while I’m driving, so I contact it on a big bump… I’ve installed one of the popular mesh panels for summer top-off driving, and I have to lean the seat back and slouch or the button of my ball cap is constantly rubbing on the mesh… and I’m only 6’3”. My brother is 6’5. He could fit in a CJ and a TJ, but his head is a full inch into the sound bar on the JL. He didn’t buy his JL until he found a modification/solution to lower the seat two full inches — and that was damn hard to find for quite a while, because people are understandably nervous about modifying seat mounts because of liability. That solution works for him, but it forces the seat into a recline which many wouldn’t want. Unfortunately, there are no perfect solutions, because the tranny hump is right up against the inboard front seat support. (Most taller folks probably throw in the towel after sitting in a JL.. You gotta be all-in to fight through all the internet complaining to find workable solutions that don’t involve scary modifications to your new $50,000 toy.)

Americans are getting taller. I don’t understand why the headroom in Jeep’s is shrinking. Short engineers, I guess.
 

HungryHound

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I’m good with the adjustment mechanism, but after 43 years of owning Jeep’s the JL is the first generation I‘ve owned that I can’t fit in properly. I have the seat all the way down and I still have to lean way down and left to see a stop light turn green… My head is only a half inch from the sound bar while I’m driving, so I contact it on a big bump… I’ve installed one of the popular mesh panels for summer top-off driving, and I have to lean the seat back and slouch or the button of my ball cap is constantly rubbing on the mesh… and I’m only 6’3”. My brother is 6’5. He could fit in a CJ and a TJ, but his head is a full inch into the sound bar on the JL. He didn’t buy his JL until he found a modification/solution to lower the seat two full inches — and that was damn hard to find for quite a while, because people are understandably nervous about modifying seat mounts because of liability. That solution works for him, but it forces the seat into a recline which many wouldn’t want. Unfortunately, there are no perfect solutions, because the tranny hump is right up against the inboard front seat support. (Most taller folks probably throw in the towel after sitting in a JL.. You gotta be all-in to fight through all the internet complaining to find workable solutions that don’t involve scary modifications to your new $50,000 toy.)

Americans are getting taller. I don’t understand why the headroom in Jeep’s is shrinking. Short engineers, I guess.
I'm guessing you're talking about a CJ-7. I don't think either one of you would fit in a 5. I'm 5-11 and getting out of the smaller '75 takes some doing.

My guess on the lower roof height on the JL is aerodynamics. The same reason most cars are compromised today: CAFE.
 

ReimundKrohn

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Indeed, JK tops were notorious for leaks. Yet Ford goes out and builds an even larger fiberglass top, with more removable panels, more seams and more gaps.

I think it is less about Jeepers having selective memory, and more about the arrogance with which Ford embarked on its Bronco experiment, as if it had nothing to learn from JK’s top leaks.
Not fibreglass. Cardboard honeycomb with a plastic skin…. Which according to some sources is using 30% less plastic than Webasto recommended to Ford….. but that last is a rumour.
 

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Americans are getting taller.
Pretty sure on average American's are getting heavier, not taller. But that still doesn't explain making smaller seating areas in an already smaller cabin. But luckily for the tall guys it does sound like the Bronco will solve that problem when it finally hits the market in scale.
 

Outrun

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Most people regear because of on-road performance. On road and on 4HI the transfer case of both the Jeep and Bronco is 1:1, so the gear ratio is better on 37th.

For all models of Jeep except certain Rubicon models (e.g. 2.0 and 3.6) the transfer case gearing is 2.72. So even in 4LO the high volume sellers will benefit from the Sasquatch 4.7 gearing.
No, this is about on road performance as well.
 

The Last Cowboy

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I used to bit my head often when getting in the JK. Never happens in the JL. It seems slightly roomier to me, but I’m 5’9.
 

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I'm guessing you're talking about a CJ-7. I don't think either one of you would fit in a 5. I'm 5-11 and getting out of the smaller '75 takes some doing.

My guess on the lower roof height on the JL is aerodynamics. The same reason most cars are compromised today: CAFE.
I had two CJ5s in my earlier years. I remember them being harder to get in and out of because of the hump in the body panel that covered the back portion of the seat pan, but I don’t remember a difference in headroom.

I suspect you’re right about aerodynamics and fuel economy playing a role. I’m betting aesthetics and reduced role risk played a role too, because so many people carry significant weight and additional sail area on the roof — but there are a LOT of people over six feet tall, and most other 4x4 manufacturers manage to accommodate them.

It appears that I was wrong about Americans getting taller. My anecdotal experience of seeing 6’10” centers on high school basketball teams must be a function of increasing population numbers. I never saw a kid over 6’6” during my years in school sports, and kids over 6’4” were pretty rare. These days Oregon high school basketball is full of kids over 6’4… but Oregon’s population has more than doubled, so there are more kids to pick teams from.
 

HungryHound

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I had two CJ5s in my earlier years. I remember them being harder to get in and out of because of the hump in the body panel that covered the back portion of the seat pan, but I don’t remember a difference in headroom.

I suspect you’re right about aerodynamics and fuel economy playing a role. I’m betting aesthetics and reduced role risk played a role too, because so many people carry significant weight and additional sail area on the roof — but there are a LOT of people over six feet tall, and most other 4x4 manufacturers manage to accommodate them.

It appears that I was wrong about Americans getting taller. My anecdotal experience of seeing 6’10” centers on high school basketball teams must be a function of increasing population numbers. I never saw a kid over 6’6” during my years in school sports, and kids over 6’4” were pretty rare. These days Oregon high school basketball is full of kids over 6’4… but Oregon’s population has more than doubled, so there are more kids to pick teams from.
Yeah, that kidney buster makes it tough to get out of the CJ-5s.
 
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