TFL compares 4xe, Bronco, and Defender on serious off-road trail

[entropy]

Another thing to consider.

Jeep went with a SFA to keep us happy. For the off-roading crew. Jeep its keeping its roots intact. And it has hurt them, with all the soccer moms and drag racers constantly bitching about the SFA on the road. Cause everyone is used to driving IFS nowadays, and their butt itches when they drive a SFA vehicle.

Ford didn't have the balls to go with a SFA. Because all the people who are gonna be driving topless on the beach and on the pavement, and all the soccer moms and drag racers will never need a SFA.

That's the truth. It is also one of the main reasons I am staying with Jeep, not to mention the disastrous roll-out of the Bronco.

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[Mikester86]

I do find funny how a lot of 4d Jeep owners are now talking about maneuverability of Jeep over Bronco being a very important factor to consider. Which it is, I agree. But when we, 2 door owners talked about the wonders of maneuverability we were faced with "the 4 door can go anywhere the 2 door can"

And Ill say the same. That Bronco can go anywhere the rubicon JL can. But it isnt just about that. And anyone whos been on a trail knows the importance of maneuverability and articulation. Sure they all can get through trails, but it is not the same.

When I’m out trail riding with a local group, I’m surrounded by 2 doors. I’m usually the only one with a JLUR. Most are JK’s and TJ’s.

I do appreciate their maneuverability, but I have no issues in tight spaces. The JLU’s steering radius is pretty darn good.

The Bronco is a wide body looking thing. It could handle the Michigan trails, just with more trail rash.

My cousin should be getting his this fall, a 2 door. So I’ll get to see what all the hoopla is about.

 

[entropy]

When I’m out trail riding with a local group, I’m surrounded by 2 doors. I’m usually the only one with a JLUR. Most are JK’s and TJ’s.

I do appreciate their maneuverability, but I have no issues in tight spaces. The JLU’s steering radius is pretty darn good.

The Bronco is a wide body looking thing. It could handle the Michigan trails, just with more trail rash.

My cousin should be getting his this fall, a 2 door. So I’ll get to see what all the hoopla is about.

But thats my point. It is not just about "tight radius". Maneuverability helps with more options when picking a line, it also helps when "fixing" your line, it helps with tire placement, etc... It is a pro, it has always been, beyond just "tight turn radius". off-roading a short-wheel base jeep is like going with smaller steps, it allows more adjustments. Just like the long wheelbase has an advantage on steep inclines.

 

[Outrun]

Another thing to consider.

Jeep went with a SFA to keep us happy. For the off-roading crew. Jeep its keeping its roots intact. And it has hurt them, with all the soccer moms and drag racers constantly bitching about the SFA on the road. Cause everyone is used to driving IFS nowadays, and their butt itches when they drive a SFA vehicle.

Ford didn't have the balls to go with a SFA. Because all the people who are gonna be driving topless on the beach and on the pavement, and all the soccer moms and drag racers will never need a SFA.

That's the truth. It is also one of the main reasons I am staying with Jeep, not to mention the disastrous roll-out of the Bronco.

Even then, the majority of people driving the Wranglers seem to be soccer moms who probably couldn't tell the difference between IFS and SFA. It's a popular vehicle regardless.

 

[entropy]

Even then, the majority of people driving the Wranglers seem to be soccer moms who probably couldn't tell the difference between IFS and SFA. It's a popular vehicle regardless.

 

[HungryHound]

Yep I used to to run this in my first TJ which was open front and rear without issue. I do use my lockers up there now, because I have them and I feel that I'm less likely to spin a tire and tear up the trail anymore than necessary. I haven't been up there this year, but unless something has dramatically changed any Jeep can get through this trail. The worst part truly is that rock right at the beginning but with spotting and careful driving you can get through it. Andre did not do a good job of going over it (too much speed IMO).


That section where the bronco is flexed out is fairly steep, it's right after a switch back so not much room for a run up. I'm sure someone could get through there in 2wd, but it wouldn't be a graceful walk up it. My 2 doors lift tires there. I am curious about the differences in wheelbase on the JLU and the Bronco 4 door, I would've liked to have seen where the rear tires were. Honestly I'm kind of disappointed that they ran Red Cone on a Sunday. It's a busy trail, you can see people constantly around them, and I feel that they may have rushed some of the shots to get out of the way of other trail users. Nice of them to not hold people up, but had they ran it on a week day it would have been more quiet up there for them to take time getting more shots. I believe they ran Wheeler on Monday, that should be a great video as it is a more difficult trail than Red Cone.


It's totally an issue (feature?) of solid axles. Some trails, maybe many trails, I would like to have at least IFS to help smooth that out some, but I really do like solid axles for their strength, articulation, and relatively low cost to repair/replace/lift. I don't know that I'm going to run out to replace my JL with a Bronco anytime soon, but I am certainly paying attention to it. Super excited that they're starting to show up in CO now so I can watch them on trails I know.

All vehicles cause washboard. My theory on it is anything travel faster than say 4 mph when a bump is hit the tire displaces loose material which quickly starts to pile up near by. This then just continues to replicate itself over and over. The rhythm of the washboard will be related to the average speed of vehicles on the road. Traveling fast enough you can "skip" along the top of the washboard, smoothing out the ride for yourself. But if the rhythm of that washboard changes, or if the peaks get higher/lower, you're crashing your tire and suspension into the washboard rather than skipping along the top until you find the correct speed again. For myself, it depends on the road and how safe I feel it is to be going at the speed necessary to skip along the top. I either go very slowly through washboard, or fast enough to skip along. I always slow down for oncoming traffic though, both for their visibility and to hopefully not pepper them with gravel.



Yes a stock JLU can make it up there without damage. Of course you stand a chance of damaging something, it is a tight spot, but just take it slowly and carefully and it's not an issue. If you go on the weekend it's a busy trail, so if you don't have a spotter you'll likely have someone else there who would be willing to help. The top of red cone is a great view (it'll be windy, and seems to always rain on me when I'm there). Going down the backside is what Red Cone is known for. Used to be challenging but in modern vehicles it's a non-issue. Steep, but keep it in 4 low use your hill descent if you like, it's not as dramatic as some books would have you believe. It drops you out onto the top of Webster pass. Great view from there as well. Take a left down some narrow switch backs and it's an easy trail back to where you started Red Cone (the snow that blocks the way should be gone by now). Or go straight/right, stay pointed down hill and it's an easy trail down to Montezuma and eventually Keystone, there is a nice creek crossing as you get to the end. If you're feeling frisky right after the first creek crossing you head straight/left/uphill and almost immediately you get to where TFL has done some other videos. Keep going that way and you're on Radical Hill which is a more difficult trail with very narrow switch backs that end in a steep climb putting you back up on the tundra. There is almost always mountain goats there. Several ways off that mountain, all of which are pretty easy (other than back down Radical Hill) and drop you back into Montezuma/Keystone as well. I forget the trail names up there, Saints John is one of them its the longer way out, but it's scenic. From Keystone I recommend find your way to Dillon, stop in at the Dam Brewery for good food and drinks before jumping on I-70 and TFL's Ike Gauntlet (which I believe currently is under construction).

Thanks for the detail on the trail. The boss said it's too far away for this trip, but I'll keep the notes for our next visit.

 

[Outrun]

Don't forget about steering feel. The Bronco has that in spades over a Wrangler. Steering feel might possibly be the deciding factor for a lot of potential customers cross shopping both?

Steering feel is subjective.

At this point, all the Bronco's pros over the Wrangler seems to be grasping for straws. LOL at "in spades."

 

[Zandcwhite]

But thats my point. It is not just about "tight radius". Maneuverability helps with more options when picking a line, it also helps when "fixing" your line, it helps with tire placement, etc... It is a pro, it has always been, beyond just "tight turn radius". off-roading a short-wheel base jeep is like going with smaller steps, it allows more adjustments. Just like the long wheelbase has an advantage on steep inclines.

But that is the point here, the wheelbase is basically the same so there is no advantage of being less maneuverable. 2 door jl's have their advantages over 4 doors, and vice versa. Many of us will give up some maneuverability and breakover angle for steep hill/ ledge stability, space, ride quality at speed, etc. The broncos lack of articulation decreases stability, the width of it's body sacrifices maneuverability, and it's short arm ifs does little for ride quality at speed. Every vehicle choice comes with some compromise. If it was just maneuverability, we'd be out on one wheels on the trail. If it was just comfort we'd probably be in g-wagons. For the serious off roader that still needs to drive their vehicle on the street, the Wrangler was the only real choice for a long time. The Bronco seems to have gotten close, probably close enough for many. The Wrangler is still the best off road.

 

[Nickp01]

The IFS system it has is 1/3 of what actual off road vehicles use. It's like a hybrid solid axle combined with IFS. In it's case, the worst of both worlds in the off road realm. You cannot setup enough travel with such short arms to take any of those whoops at respectable speeds. Bumpy trails, sure, no problem.

What you can do, is setup SFA to haul ass over whoops. The Bronco will be very limited and especially in the aftermarket as for performance due to it's inherent design where the Jeep can be setup to be KOH or Jeep Speed worthy without too much fuss. If you ever been to BITD you would know what I mean. Unfortunately, lots of keyboard commandos just sitting here speculating because all they have been fed was Ford's marketing.

The Bronco is not the first factory IFS car to enter the playing field.

Everyone who has had the chance to go for a rip in a Bronco with Vaughn Gittin Jr or Lauren Healy seemed to come away from the experince pretty amazed.

Can confirm. Got to ride around with them, it was amazing even though I’ll admit I’m 100% biased. Yes you can get a SFA vehicle to be extremely good in the rough stuff at speed. But the amount of work you’d have to put into it to match a stock bronco would be extremely high. (Just like getting a stock Bronco to be as good as a lightly modded JL in the rocks would be extremely high.)The Bronco when pushed to the limits really feels like a stiff Polaris Rzr. It isn’t like riding on a cloud like a Rzr is, but that’s because it feels so planted (and the body roll in a Rzr would get annoying as a daily…) And just like how you can put tons of work into a wrangler to get it good in the desert, there will be long arm kits and all sorts of crazy options for the IFS.

I got a new appreciation for the JL when I finally got to drive one. It’s as good as the hype. Bronco is also as good as the hype; although a bit rough around the edges. (To be expected with a new entry)

I expect both vehicles to be best sellers for their respective brands for decades to come. Neither is better or worse overall, they are just different enough from each other to make the choice personal. For me personally, a stock Sasquatch bronco will get me anywhere I’m willing to bring a $43,000 vehicle, and if that changes there will be mods galore down the line.

Here’s the inside view of going off that jump riding with Vaughn btw. It honestly felt like nothing as the video portrays, it’s pretty wild.

Also, here’s Car and Driver jumping theirs. Insanity.

 

[bjm00se]

It’s odd that it was only showing 8 miles of range at the start of the trail? Was it only partially charged to start? I could see losing 50% of the range in low range, but 85%? Something doesn’t add up. The only thing the bronco did better was having 35’s and comfier seats. How Ford claims more articulation is beyond me.

Huh? 19 miles. See 6:17

 

[bjm00se]

The 8 miles dropping to 3 makes sense, but in their previous video fully charged road range was 27 miles. Why was it only 8 at the start of the trail? I can’t imagine it was fully charged. That sounds like the started at ~30% charged, and only got 3 miles. I’d expect the fully charged off road range to be closer to 10 miles.

It wasn't 8 at the start. It was 19. Basically fully charged. See 6:17

 

[Jeepin' John]

The Bronco is a great vehicle and 35's from the factory is fantastic. I can see the appeal.

But off road tests by non-off-road guys bug me a bit. On a technical trail, the problem with IFS isn't going up the trail - it's coming down the hard sections of the trail. You run out of front suspension travel, and the rear end feels like it's about to go over your head. From personal wheeling experience with IFS, that is downright scary. That's an automatic D-Q when talking about ultimate trail ability

 

[Notorious]

I can respect the Bronco in its own right, without taking anything away from Jeep in the slightest.

Truth is, both are really great vehicles. Owners of either will agree that the Defender (as tested in the video) has no place being on the trail.

 

[Zandcwhite]

 

[Willing&Able]

You sir, are winner of the last ten pages......hats off to you...

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