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T Town

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If I had to choose one of those three vehicles to take up red cone, my pick would be the Defender on bigger tires/smaller wheels. My reasoning: I like red cone, it's a good trail with some nice views especially when you get to the top. But it's one of those trails that just beats me to death. It is constant rocks most which aren't difficult to get over/around but are big enough to just keep me bouncing through the entire trail even at 15 psi with the sway bar disconnected. I imagine air suspension at all four corners could help smooth that out a lot as would only need max offroad height in 3 maybe 4 key spots.
Your comment made me think of the last climb to the top on the video.
I can really see the guy in the Jeep rocking back and forth and the crew in the Bronco with noticeably less head toss.
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BuyHold

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The Bronco has the feature where it locks the inside rear wheel so the rest of the vehicle pivots on the locked wheel. The turning radius is greatly reduced as a result.
I think that this is a cool novelty feature but also a very bad feature in real life. This is going to tear up the trail in a way that likely makes turns a lot steeper and harder for everyone else. It is not Tread Lightly in any way at all.

Imagine a Raptor-like fan club where a few dozen Broncos get together and all use turn assist in the same section of the hosting trail. I can imagine that it will really destroy that section of the trail in a way that standard wheeling does not.
 

RubiTuesday

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I don’t think lockers were even necessary in the Jeep for this trail. I could be flawed in my thinking, but BLD may have been enough.
I ran this trail yesterday (guess I missed the TFL rescue effort by one day). My profile pic is from when I ran the trail last year. I can confirm that a JLUR can run the portion shown in the split screen TFL video without lockers (with sway bar disconnected).

Edited to add pic
Jeep Wrangler JL TFL compares 4xe, Bronco, and Defender on serious off-road trail IMG_5014
 
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viper88

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One of my rear Rubicon shocks leaked after the first month. I installed a Mopar lift and have run thousands of miles and the Fox shocks in the kit are still holding. No issues with tires,wheels or other suspension components. Well, I did have a rear LCA nut work its way lose and the bolt fall out. My bad, luckily I had a backup bolt and nut close enough to size. I was able to limp out of D.V. 60+ miles to Napa in Bishop, Ca..
I wonder if there was a bad batch of rear Rubicon shocks? There are a few threads about bad rear Rubicon shocks early on. One of mine started leaking badly early on with just city driving. The rear shock was back ordered for weeks.
 

viper88

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I think that this is a cool novelty feature but also a very bad feature in real life. This is going to tear up the trail in a way that likely makes turns a lot steeper and harder for everyone else. It is not Tread Lightly in any way at all.

Imagine a Raptor-like fan club where a few dozen Broncos get together and all use turn assist in the same section of the hosting trail. I can imagine that it will really destroy that section of the trail in a way that standard wheeling does not.
Funny you mention tearing up the trails. I asked about that during my test ride when the Bronco driver was demonstrating the feature in sand at the Chicago auto show.
 

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LongTimeListener

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I ran this trail yesterday (guess I missed the TFL rescue effort by one day). My profile pic is from when I ran the trail last year. I can confirm that a JLUR can run the portion shown in the split screen TFL video without lockers (with sway bar disconnected).
I gotta be honest: I used my e-disco way more than my lockers. I'm a big fan of keeping the Jeep as level as possible, with all 4 tires on the ground. In fact, I'd even choose the disco over a front locker, if I had to pick.
 

Zandcwhite

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IMHO 100% stock the Bronco is the winner. The factory 35's on the Bronco equaled the Wrangler on this rocky slow trail. They didn't show how the Bronco is far more capable on higher speed trails.
Wranglers articulation was better but I didn't not see it going any place the Bronco couldn't. For mid level rated trails artuculation is over rated. Neither rig is capable of extreme trails without major damage.
I wouldn’t say it equaled the wrangler in this video, they ran the same trail but the bronco was lifting tires, looking less stable, and having a tougher time maneuvering. The bronco is definitely the best competitor out there, but still gives up some size, maneuverability, articulation, and ease of modification. IFS lifts are far more expensive and far more difficult to install. As far as high speed desert running, the bronco will be marginally better, but still a far cry from a raptor or trx. Not to mention it’s tough to say anything that takes more than 10 seconds 0-60 is good at high speed anything. I tend to run most trails in 2wd with the sway bar disconnected. At 15 psi in the 37’s the Jeep is quite comfortable at 70-80 mph across washboards in Death Valley, Mojave, AZ, and southern Nevada in my experience. Of course it’s not great in the big whoops, but it does just fine. They didn’t do a good job of demonstrating the difference suspension travel can make as they locked both difs before every obstacle. You won’t find a trail that has either vehicle struggling in 4lo, both axles locked, sway bars disconnected being run on TFL in any video they’ve ever made. Between steel bender, metal masher, and cliff hanger a few weeks ago I used the rear locker 3 times and never needed the front. I prefer to try driving an obstacle before I use every trick in the book, but maybe that’s just me? If I was in the market for a desert runner, I’d be driving a trx. If I wanted the most capable off road vehicle available, that is easily modified, has ridiculous aftermarket support, and is still highly maneuverable, I’d stick with the rubicon. If I wanted a compromised in between vehicle (and hadn’t Owned both an 06 super duty and 2013 focus full of issues), I would consider a bronco. The introduction of the xtreme recon package shows just how easy it is to play 1-up on an existing design. Axle upgrades on a wrangler aren’t cheap, but upgrading that ifs to hold up to 37”+ tires…good luck. I can’t wait to see the Broncos out on real trails where we can answer the real questions. How does that ifs hold up locked, tire bound up between rocks, when the skinny pedal is applied? Will they flop on steep off camber climbs like a lot of ifs rigs with a fairly high center of gravity? Are they any better at speed than any other ifs rig, Tacoma, rebel, trail boss, or cross trek? The fact of the matter is most wrangler owners are nowhere near pushing the limits of their rigs capability, but its better to have and not need than need and not have.
 

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I don’t think lockers were even necessary in the Jeep for this trail.
I watch a lot of TFL and enjoy their videos.
My stock standard 2 door Sport with the limited slip diff could do that trail so long as I aired down.
 

sourdough

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HungryHound

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It’s odd that it was only showing 8 miles of range at the start of the trail? Was it only partially charged to start? I could see losing 50% of the range in low range, but 85%? Something doesn’t add up. The only thing the bronco did better was having 35’s and comfier seats. How Ford claims more articulation is beyond me.
Mine dies quickly even in 4-lo climbing mountains, but I've never gotten less than 12 miles fully charged (well, 95% is where you're at when you get to the trail in e-save) even climbing rocky trails at 2,000 ft gain. Maybe Roman was in the back seat?
 

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Who off-roads trails at high speeds? Unless you want to destroy the trail that is pointless. Guess you mean like sand/dirt tracks? Even at those the 4xE would clearly win as it is simply faster. The Bronco is a competitor but definitely doesn't unseat the Wrangler IMO. And in 12 months when the Recon package is released, the Bronco loses all advantages it currently has. I like the Bronco for what it is, a roomy off-roader with creature comforts but it certainly didn't move a bar in off-road work. It does provide a 'boxier' feel that you would find in a F-series truck and the comfortability of IFS on the street which is 100% a win over a Wrangler. That said, off-road..again..didn't move any bars (let's not forget what happened to the rear control arm when it found a rock even with 35s)
Raising hell in Moab doing 50mph on sandy trails in the 4xe was awesome. All you hear is the sand in the tires.
 

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Doesn't edmunds go there and blow out shocks on every kind of pickup they can? That's not a question of capability, pretty much anything without remote reservoirs will have issues on washboard roads (and even remote reservoirs can be overheated given a long enough road at high enough speeds). It's more an issue of shock management, typically controlled by your vehicle speed, it's not some measure of off-road trail capability.
I've found that the washboard smooths out if you drive at higher speeds than the Subarus that caused it.
 

HungryHound

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I don’t think lockers were even necessary in the Jeep for this trail. I could be flawed in my thinking, but BLD may have been enough.
I always run with my lockers engaged so the tire wear exactly the same so I never have to rotate them.
 

HungryHound

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When Bronco's IFS is spinning wheels in the air, lockers become a really nice feature really fast. Simply keeping the tires on the ground reduces the need for lockers.

The Defender NEEDS all that tech because it can't keep any wheels on the ground. In fact, it seems to me the off-road mode it uses that lifts... yeah it raises ground clearance but it also stiffens up suspension and likely decreases chances all 4 corners touch ground.
Rover has definitely taken the macho-minivan route in design and abandoned its offroad demeanor from the good old days.
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