Terra Acoustics - we need a Roll Bar Soundstage

[TheDreamcatcherJL]

I just received a reply back from Jason at Terra Acoustics. He info’d that the factory speakers are 8 ohms. He chose to use a similar impedance driver to make it a straight swap vs potentially causing an issue with the factory amp or an efficiency mismatch (those are my words I paraphrased from the message I got back a few min ago.)

Even if you use 4 ohm midrange drivers in the rest of the install, I personally don’t think it will be worth ditching the Terra Acoustics plates to go another direction. When I build competition or demo vehicles, I’ll sometimes swap in different impedance drivers to try and match acoustic output before ever moving a slider on the DSP. My theory/belief is the location of the drivers in proximity to your seating position isn’t going to make an appreciable difference.

The TLDR version: Go ahead and try the TA replacements and see if you like the way they sound. Don’t let yourself get hung up on comparing power since there many more variables other than power you won’t be taking in to account.

Thanks man, this was very insightful. Good luck with the hookup when they arrive today. Mine arrive tomorrow and I'll likely hook up them up by time Saturday hits so I can ride out lol.

Also looking to grab the amp and soundbar setup during this July 4th holiday sales. JLJT select increment pods and the Polk Audio 652s (Looking to refrain from having to cut up my sound bar). And if the deals are really good on that JBL Amp I may just pull the trigger all at once!

Lets see though! Lol Thanks again man!

Sponsored

 

[TheDreamcatcherJL]

Thanks man, this was very insightful. Good luck with the hookup when they arrive today. Mine arrive tomorrow and I'll likely hook up them up by time Saturday hits so I can ride out lol.

Also looking to grab the amp and soundbar setup during this July 4th holiday sales. JLJT select increment pods and the Polk Audio 652s (Looking to refrain from having to cut up my sound bar). And if the deals are really good on that JBL Amp I may just pull the trigger all at once!

Lets see though! Lol Thanks again man!

@Txcomp

Just installed my TA's, not a HUGE difference in loudness per say but definitely can sense better clarity. Gotta break them in and give them some time according to something I read/listened to on TA website.

I'm sure once I install the amp/soundbar setup that'll take things to another level also.

I also had a crutchfield rep (Tim) say I need a line output converter if using my factory radio once I installed these. Could that be why there's not a significant difference?

 

[Txcomp]

You have a few choces on line converters but I don't think the old school Hi/Lo converter will work very well and if it does, you will likely regret taking the time to install it as the sound is usually worse not better since they're so fiddly with getting the output matched perfect with what the amp wants to see.

I'm installing Mosconi One amps (One 90.8 and One 250.2 in case your curious) in my Jeep and doing things slightly different than you (with optical out of the head with an outboard DAC at the amps) but I've had good luck with the Pac AmpPRO 4 in my Raptor and now my Jeep. I like to pick the signals off while they're still digital and haven't passed through a DAC (digital to analog converter) since most factory DACs are chosen based on price point vs quality.

Before you click and choke, yes it's spendy!!

AP4-CH41 (pac-audio.com)

In the case of the Jeep (and my Raptor), the DAC is in the factory amp. Also, most of the time alignment, equalization and crossover points are done in the factory amp so if you pick those wires off after the amp, you'll need something to sum all of the signals back together and then split them again once you hit the crossover in the amp or an outboard crossover. Now, if you're only adding a sub amp, you can just pick off the sub output on the factory amp but if you want to include the rest of the mids and highs and you don't sum the signal in the processor, you're basically stuck with whatever crossover point that the manufacturer chose that works best for the drivers they installed.

JL Audio makes some excellent Hi/Lo converters and processors that do most of the summing, "detuning" the factory amp by removing factory EQ settings and so on by itself. I believe the Audio Control pieces do the same thing with maybe a little less automatic and more installer based changes (which takes a special interface for your PC I believe). You can also check out Helix, Mosconi, ARC and some others but the prices start on those at around 1K and go up from there. However, there is a LOT of horsepower under the hood on these processors but the learning curve is pretty steep too.

Here is a page from Crutchfield (since you're already familiar with them and they're a GREAT resource for the consumer).

Processors & Line Output Converters at Crutchfield

This is for my Jeep (2018 JLUR W/8.4 Alpine). I'd recommend avoiding anything under $100 if you can because everything I looked at at that price point doesn't do summing. I'm not familiar at all with WaveTech so I can't say if they're good, bad or otherwise. My friend who is an Audio Control installer and tech support guy really likes the LC7i and LC6i. The 7 has bass restoration which you may or may not want depending on the music you listen to. Just remember, get something that will sum all of the channels in one unit (in our case, 6 channels since I'd bet that the soundbar frequencies are covered by the dash speakers) and you can just use the same signal on the input of your amp to drive those output speakers. I've attached a wiring diagram (I hope) so you can see the colors of the wires at the factory amp going toward the spoeakers. Remember, you're working with 6 channels (highs in dash, mids in lower dash and sub in rear) so if you buy a cheap Hi/Lo that only does 2 channels, you'll need 3 of them to convert 6 channels to RCA.

Hopefully I haven't confused you too much. If you have questions on anything specific, let me know and if I don't know the answer, I probably know someone who does since I have friends that either work for the manufacturers or own installation shops all over the country.

 

[Txcomp]

@Txcomp

Just installed my TA's, not a HUGE difference in loudness per say but definitely can sense better clarity. Gotta break them in and give them some time according to something I read/listened to on TA website.

I'm sure once I install the amp/soundbar setup that'll take things to another level also.

I also had a crutchfield rep (Tim) say I need a line output converter if using my factory radio once I installed these. Could that be why there's not a significant difference?

I don't think you're going to hear an "oh my gawd" difference in the TA's since they're the same imperdence as the factory speakers so they're receiving the same amount of power as the factory speakers. Their sensetivity may be better (I don't know and don't have the equipment to measure the Theil Small parameters of the factory and TA drivers) but if it is better, I'd say the TA's will be only a couple of dB's more efficient. I agree that once you hang some power on them (40ish watts per channel or so) that they will wake up quite a bit. They're really a small format driver so you're not going to get concert level output from them. Once my elbow gets better, I'll put mine in and try to do some "backyard" A/B testing so I can speak more intelligently about the differences. Tennis Elbow that I "got" using a framing nailer 10 years ago sux when it flares up and you have projects.

 

[Txcomp]

I finally got time to put the Terra Acoustics plates in my JL today. I don’t have a lot of listening time on them yet but my first impression is they’re ok for what they are. My definition of what they are is an extremely easy upgrade that 99% of the owners can do themselves to improve their front stage in their JL.

The factory front speakers look like wide band drivers on the RTA. This is a screen shot of the frequency response using RTA software on my phone The mic was about 4” from the driver, resting on the dash, 90 degrees off axis with the grill removed. Volume was at 20 on the head unit. The big hole you see in response above 8k is likely what makes the front stage sound dead. The big spike at 16k is likely reflection from the windshield in to the mic

Below is a shot of the TA speakers installed. The grill was in place since the tweeter is in the grill. As you can see, the upper midrange output from the factory speaker IS slightly louder but everything 10k and up on the TA has more output. These frequencies are typically how we judge spaciousness so the TA speakers would make the soundstage sound more “full” and bigger.

In my opinion, depending on what type of music you listen to will determine how much benefit you receive from this upgrade. They DO bring out the highs more in the front than the factory speakers and that makes the soundstage appear more full. I was able to take the one line of mid out of the factory EQ which helped them blend better.

Install was simple. As other have mentioned, it would be nice if the mids mounted to the plate but I don’t see any easy way to do that. That would help clean up the tweeter wiring.

Hope this helps someone trying to make a decision.

 

[lashlee]

As a long time competitor in USAC and MECA, I appreciate you taking the time and effort to inform the forum. I get a little disappointed by the threads where users ask about which speaker to buy without steeping foot into a store (the only time that would be acceptable is if you have a great relationship with a dealer and he special orders something specific for your needs). TA seems to be trying to improve on the 8.4/Alpine setup (the literal first thing said when buying our JLUR was from my wife at how terrible the OEM offering sounded), but not everyone is like us and willing to spend the time and effort to install a quality setup. For those that are interested in my build, here's a list of the equipment:

OEM H/U
Helix DSP Pro/Director
(2) Phoenix Gold Ti21600.5 (one per side)
Illusion Audio C3CX
Illusion Audio C8
Audible Physics Ram3a (center)
Stereo Integrity SQL 15
Phoenix Gold DD5, and Zeropoint distribution blocks
And lots of Soundshield pro (8 rolls!)
Second skin Luxury Liner

In 2008 I was the MECA Modified+ second place finisher (I tied for first but got beat on tonality) at world finals, along with Tennessee state champion and national points champion.

 

[Txcomp]

I’m sure we’ve crossed paths then. I was the head of SQ for USACi from the late 90’s until 2018. Still judge for IASCA, EMMA, MECA, USACi and some of the money rounds. MECA is big in TN for obvious reasons.

You have the same mids and highs that I had in my Raptor. May do the C3CX in the dash of the JL once I build it.

 

[lashlee]

I'm sure we have. I started competing in 1996 and stuck with it until 2008.

If we get around to building the stereo in the JL I'll certainly have the C3CX high on the list. They've been great in my car. My dealer put in a set of the C6's from Illusion and wasn't as pleased, but I don't think the install was optimized like I would do.

Good luck with your build!

 

[J2K66]

I finally got time to put the Terra Acoustics plates in my JL today. I don’t have a lot of listening time on them yet but my first impression is they’re ok for what they are. My definition of what they are is an extremely easy upgrade that 99% of the owners can do themselves to improve their front stage in their JL.

The factory front speakers look like wide band drivers on the RTA. This is a screen shot of the frequency response using RTA software on my phone The mic was about 4” from the driver, resting on the dash, 90 degrees off axis with the grill removed. Volume was at 20 on the head unit. The big hole you see in response above 8k is likely what makes the front stage sound dead. The big spike at 16k is likely reflection from the windshield in to the mic

Below is a shot of the TA speakers installed. The grill was in place since the tweeter is in the grill. As you can see, the upper midrange output from the factory speaker IS slightly louder but everything 10k and up on the TA has more output. These frequencies are typically how we judge spaciousness so the TA speakers would make the soundstage sound more “full” and bigger.

In my opinion, depending on what type of music you listen to will determine how much benefit you receive from this upgrade. They DO bring out the highs more in the front than the factory speakers and that makes the soundstage appear more full. I was able to take the one line of mid out of the factory EQ which helped them blend better.

Install was simple. As other have mentioned, it would be nice if the mids mounted to the plate but I don’t see any easy way to do that. That would help clean up the tweeter wiring.

Hope this helps someone trying to make a decision.

Thanks for the info on these... after a couple of weeks, any more feedback? Would you buy them again, or are you planning to replace/upgrade them moving forward?

I was also a car stereo nut back in the mid-late 90's... ran Orion/Focal/Soundstream/Alumapro stuff back then with custom kick panels, door panels, etc. That was then... but now I really want an upgrade with an easy button.

 

[Txcomp]

Thanks for the info on these... after a couple of weeks, any more feedback? Would you buy them again, or are you planning to replace/upgrade them moving forward?

I was also a car stereo nut back in the mid-late 90's... ran Orion/Focal/Soundstream/Alumapro stuff back then with custom kick panels, door panels, etc. That was then... but now I really want an upgrade with an easy button.

I've had a chance to listen on some high res stuff and they do improve the frequency response overall. I think the mids do a pretty good job but I'm not in love with the tweeters. You probably need to take that with a grain of salt though as I'm used to listening to tweeters that typically cost more than an entire upgrade for most systems.



I want to put some power to them and see how they do. I also want to get some more EQ control to see if I can smooth out what sounds to me like a peak at 8-10K, especially prevalent at higher listening levels. Since there are so many variables within the current signal chain (factory EQ, factory DSP, unknown crossover points, digital amp, etc) I’m literally just evaluating now and not able to perform much of a fix. I have a Mosconi One 90.6 to install in the JL to run the mids and highs which has the 6-8 DSP built in so that should give me plenty of control. I expect I can get this set to sound pretty good after I rebuild.



As far as if I would do it again, I believe I would. As you know, quality costs and I believe the price point is a little high for someone that has the ability to do something custom BUT the ease of install and the improvement that they make is going to be a home run for 90% of the people that these are marketed to. I know this sounds bad but to me the grills are worth $250 since it would likely cost me that much in time and materials to design, prototype and build some like them and that doesn’t even begin to address the cost of what speakers I’d put in there to replace the TA speakers.



Do I believe these sound better than Eaton, Dynaudio, Accuton, Focal, Hybrid, Illusion, etc?? No

Do I believe they improve the sound overall? To a degree, especially on music that is recorded clean. On tracks that have built in distortion, the tweeters amplify that and get harsh (to the point I have to turn the volume down and/or change tracks)

Do I believe this will be a worthwhile upgrade for 90% of JL/JK owners? Yes since they are so easy to install and the price for the “kit” is all of the expense (no install/fab cost, no additional time, etc) you will incur.

Is this worthwhile for the other 10%? Probably not but that type of person is going to pursue a custom route anyway and the price to duplicate this setup with better drivers would likely be in the 1k-2k range



At the end of the day, whatever you do, it’s still a Jeep and that’s not known to be the best platform for a high end audio build. Most people who drive Jeeps want loud with the top off and if that’s the case, they usually care more about sound quantity vs quality. Wet Sounds makes sealed pods that get loud as hell and have adapters that allow you to bolt their arrays right to the roll bar. A big multi channel amp, a pair of 12's or 15's and 4 Wet Sounds pods will give you something that you can hear at the other end of the block.

 

[roxj]

As a long time competitor in USAC and MECA, I appreciate you taking the time and effort to inform the forum. I get a little disappointed by the threads where users ask about which speaker to buy without steeping foot into a store (the only time that would be acceptable is if you have a great relationship with a dealer and he special orders something specific for your needs). TA seems to be trying to improve on the 8.4/Alpine setup (the literal first thing said when buying our JLUR was from my wife at how terrible the OEM offering sounded), but not everyone is like us and willing to spend the time and effort to install a quality setup. For those that are interested in my build, here's a list of the equipment:

OEM H/U
Helix DSP Pro/Director
(2) Phoenix Gold Ti21600.5 (one per side)
Illusion Audio C3CX
Illusion Audio C8
Audible Physics Ram3a (center)
Stereo Integrity SQL 15
Phoenix Gold DD5, and Zeropoint distribution blocks
And lots of Soundshield pro (8 rolls!)
Second skin Luxury Liner

In 2008 I was the MECA Modified+ second place finisher (I tied for first but got beat on tonality) at world finals, along with Tennessee state champion and national points champion.

Do you have a build thread here or somewhere like DIYMA or CAJ ?

 

[lashlee]

I've got a few posted on DIYMA, under the same username. I'm not as active on there as much as I was when I competed, but I'm sure they are still around. My silver Accord Hybrid was probably the last one I posted. My Tesla install isn't finished yet (it's playing, I just need to build the final trim panel over the sub) but I'll probably post it to the Tesla forums once I'm done. There's too much time being spent on a certain JLUR in the driveway of late!

Sponsored