Teasers: JL Wrangler Concepts Coming to Moab Easter Safari

OldBackpacker

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Jeep is already teasing me enough by not building my 2 door
I'm in the same boat. Ordered on Dec 2 with prospective shipping date of Mar 4. Came and gone. Follow-up call from dealer a few days later. "Busy making 4-Drs and will hope to do 2-Drs at end of March. Bah.





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Boatbuilder88

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I understand the frustration but Jeep (FCA) is not making the tops. Bestop makes the tops for Jeep. A lot of people are angry with FCA about this but it really is an issue with Bestop and that is where the frustration should be directed towards.
How do you know that it is a Bestop issue? As a supplier, Bestop could just be following FCA's production schedule.
 

RussJeep1

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I think the red JLs hardtop looks a bit "Broncoish."

I also think it's a bit of bad PR to be putting resources into concept builds while factory orders sit idle, even if such special orders would in no way make factory orders process slower.

Delays are FCA's fault, period--not the vendor they may have turfed aspects of production off to. FCA had right to solicit the production of items from multiple vendors to mitigate risk of one of more of those vendors not being able to keep up with demand, and/or make in-house.

You wanna bet that their contracts offer financial penalty for orders not met, to FCA's advantage? Do you think they're passing those savings along to the consumers who were made to wait?
 

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I think the red JLs hardtop looks a bit "Broncoish."

I also think it's a bit of bad PR to be putting resources into concept builds while factory orders sit idle, even if such special orders would in no way make factory orders process slower.

Delays are FCA's fault, period--not the vendor they may have turfed aspects of production off to. FCA had right to solicit the production of items from multiple vendors to mitigate risk of one of more of those vendors not being able to keep up with demand, and/or make in-house.

You wanna bet that their contracts offer financial penalty for orders not met, to FCA's advantage? Do you think they're passing those savings along to the consumers who were made to wait?

Fortunately not everyone shares the same view. The design team operates independently of and usually is hand built with ZERO effect on production. The idea to put a hold on these events because demand outpaces supply is unrealistic. Designers and manufacturers would face layoffs and those loyal Jeepers at Moab would begin speculation from the lack of presence by Jeep. It’s a tradition at this point and one of the main attractions to the EJS.

They simply should not have opened ordering banks period for the 2 door, but then everyone else wanting a 2 door would be here discussing and miffed about no information on that too. So it’s kind of a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” scenario.
 

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Delays are FCA's fault, period--not the vendor they may have turfed aspects of production off to. FCA had right to solicit the production of items from multiple vendors to mitigate risk of one of more of those vendors not being able to keep up with demand, and/or make in-house.

You wanna bet that their contracts offer financial penalty for orders not met, to FCA's advantage? Do you think they're passing those savings along to the consumers who were made to wait?
I don't hear of any delays because Dana could not supply axles. My point is that people are quick to blame FCA for everything. I am not some FCA fanboy but I do try to look at the big picture and realize this is not all on FCA. It is a very complicated process that involves many companies, not just FCA.

You are right their contracts have a financial penalty for orders not met. I myself however do not expect FCA to take the money from penalties and hand it over to the customer that purchases their products. That is not why the penalty exists. It exists to make sure the vendor honors their agreement. Same as a deposit does when you go to a dealer to place an order on a new vehicle. The dealer does not turn that deposit you lost over to their employees if you walk away from the deal.
 

RussJeep1

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I don't hear of any delays because Dana could not supply axles. My point is that people are quick to blame FCA for everything. I am not some FCA fanboy but I do try to look at the big picture and realize this is not all on FCA. It is a very complicated process that involves many companies, not just FCA.

You are right their contracts have a financial penalty for orders not met. I myself however do not expect FCA to take the money from penalties and hand it over to the customer that purchases their products. That is not why the penalty exists. It exists to make sure the vendor honors their agreement. Same as a deposit does when you go to a dealer to place an order on a new vehicle. The dealer does not turn that deposit you lost over to their employees if you walk away from the deal.
We'll stated SS. I respect what you say and can side with most of it. Good point on the axles.

But not passing along their savings that they penalize vendors for, for the purposes of not delivering product on time to the same inconvenienced customers, why not?

I mean they won't..but why shouldn't they? The penalty is to motivate vendors to meet commitments, agreed, but for the purposes of FCA producing Wranglers faster to customers, for better PR, right, so why not, if this underlying purpose is good PR, pass the savings along to the delayed customer--aside of course from profit loss reasons?

The analogy you cite is not exactly there I think, maybe I missed the point. The order deposit is there to make sure that people don't order things left and right and renege, and dealerships are stuck with more inventory than they're comfortable holding/handing, even if Wranglers have this issue. You agree up front to not expect it back. In some ways it serves the same as the health office copay, in that without it, people would tax the system for proverbial paper cuts.

Maybe you're saying that I the order maker never agreed to have monies returned to me for production delays.


 
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Rockmaninoff

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I understand the frustration but Jeep (FCA) is not making the tops. Bestop makes the tops for Jeep. A lot of people are angry with FCA about this but it really is an issue with Bestop and that is where the frustration should be directed towards.
Of course it is FCA's fault when they have taken orders without taking the responsibility for meeting expectations.

I don't hear of any delays because Dana could not supply axles. My point is that people are quick to blame FCA for everything. I am not some FCA fanboy but I do try to look at the big picture and realize this is not all on FCA. It is a very complicated process that involves many companies, not just FCA.
Why is this BestTop's fault for certain? FCA might have asked for x pieces a month and how do we know that it's BestTop that can't deliver that many or if FCA originally wanted x pieces but they have taken orders for y pieces where y>x?

FCA is not the only company that needs to rely on othes to make parts either. Just don't take orders if you can't give them on time.
 

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As for teasers, why not give a teaser about when they're actually going to launch in the rest of the world? In the RHD world, the JK is the current mode and dealers haven't even been informed of a JL. What a joke.

Also, save the one-off concepts for a time when the model is getting stale. If you have to show things, show us what we can actually buy within an year or can it.
 

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We'll stated SS. I respect what you say and can side with most of it. Good point on the axles.

But not passing along their savings that they penalize vendors for, for the purposes of not delivering product on time to the same inconvenienced customers, why not?

I mean they won't..but why shouldn't they? The penalty is to motivate vendors to meet commitments, agreed, but for the purposes of FCA producing Wranglers faster to customers, for better PR, right, so why not, if this underlying purpose is good PR, pass the savings along to the delayed customer--aside of course from profit loss reasons?

The analogy you cite is not exactly there I think, maybe I missed the point. The order deposit is there to make sure that people don't order things left and right and renege, and dealerships are stuck with more inventory than they're comfortable holding/handing, even if Wranglers have this issue. You agree up front to not expect it back. In some ways it serves the same as the health office copay, in that without it, people would tax the system for proverbial paper cuts.

Maybe you're saying that I the order maker never agreed to have monies returned to me for production delays.


Why should they? Is it earned?

1) Ultimately it’s the market that balances supply and demand issues.

2) Beware any dealer who says “no refundable deposit”, if the product is in demand it’s a moot point.
 

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But not passing along their savings that they penalize vendors for, for the purposes of not delivering product on time to the same inconvenienced customers, why not?

I mean they won't..but why shouldn't they?
They cannot get Jeeps out fast enough and you want them to figure out how much of this money if collected goes back to customers that ordered with Premium Soft Top? :)

I think they decided these delays are costing them more than the penalty they get from manufacturers so that is why the increased the cost of the Jeep and destination charges on March 1st! LOL J/K

I understand the thought I just don't agree that the customers should be compensated. I feel that penalty if levied exists to keep the agreement in place. If that affects the third party manufacturers bottom line they will be more inclined to meet the expectations they agreed to next time.​
 

$uicide$hift

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Why is this BestTop's fault for certain? FCA might have asked for x pieces a month and how do we know that it's BestTop that can't deliver that many or if FCA originally wanted x pieces but they have taken orders for y pieces where y>x?
Well I would have to assume that if they asked for X soft tops from BeStop then they also requested X axles from Dana and as I said they don't have a shortage of Axles do they?

Can I say all of this for a certainty? No. I am just saying that bashing FCA and only FCA is not very fair as a lot more go into producing a vehicle than one company. If FCA has a third party manufacturer that agrees to be able to keep up with demand and they do not why are we going to blame FCA alone? It is just not that simple.

I know we want that one place to point a finger and vitriol towards as that is easier. Just realize that although FCA is not perfect (no manufacturer is) this is not 100% on them is all I am trying to say.
 

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Well I would have to assume that if they asked for X soft tops from BeStop then they also requested X axles from Dana and as I said they don't have a shortage of Axles do they?

Can I say all of this for a certainty? No. I am just saying that bashing FCA and only FCA is not very fair as a lot more go into producing a vehicle than one company. If FCA has a third party manufacturer that agrees to be able to keep up with demand and they do not why are we going to blame FCA alone? It is just not that simple.

I know we want that one place to point a finger and vitriol towards as that is easier. Just realize that although FCA is not perfect (no manufacturer is) this is not 100% on them is all I am trying to say.

JIT manufacturing process issues at its finest.
 

$uicide$hift

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JIT manufacturing process issues at its finest.
That is exactly what it is in a nutshell. Been that way since the Asian companies started doing it back in the 70's. We are only feeling the affect more as this is a very hot item right now.

Hell years ago when I was starting out I could only afford a Hyundai Elantra. It was a new revision model year. When it rained the electrical would go nuts making my windows go up and down on their own, my door locks lock and unlock, my dash lights flicker. There was a leak in the drivers door that when water entered it would short out an electrical harness. They could not get a replacement part to fix it because of JIT manufacturing. After having a loaner for 30 days I was able to invoke the lemon law and get a new vehicle.

This happens to all manufacturers. We are just upset because we want the new toy and we want it NOW. I am in the same boat and get frustrated at times. I just try to pull back and realize there are people in this world that are concerned with where their next meal will come from or if they will have shelter for the night. When I think about that, me being disappointed in having to wait longer for my new toy seems a bit selfish and I feel like a big O'l asshole.
 

RussJeep1

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We'll stated SS. I respect what you say and can side with most of it. Good point on the axles.

But not passing along their savings that they penalize vendors for, for the purposes of delivering product on time to the same inconvenienced customers, why not?

I mean they won't..but why shouldn't they? The penalty is to motivate vendors to meet commitments, agreed, but for the purposes of FCA producing Wranglers faster to customers, for better PR.
Why should they? Is it earned?

1) Ultimately it’s the market that balances supply and demand issues.

2) Beware any dealer who says “no refundable deposit”, if the product is in demand it’s a moot point.

Nate, when you're right you're right. Why should they? They shouldn't. They're a profit driven entity, the customer kickback for the wait I described won't do much to improve sales, and if I was an executive at FCA, duty bound to maximize profit for the stock holders, it would be a wrong decision to make.

...but it would be nice.....;)

I think my sentiments reiterate how you refer to market forces not making such a payback to customer's a sound one.

I'm not sure if you're for refunding a deposit when the dealer isn't hurt or even financially rewarded by the cancelled order (as would be the case right now with a Wrangler) or not. They certainly don't owe it in any circumstance. To me, one of the major reasons I think deposits exist and should is to not incentivize people to make orders they have no intention on keeping with dealers who can't easily cancel product they ordered on the customer's behalf.
 

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