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TCogs1

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Zandcwhite.

Here is the link as to how to start a JL if you stall it and are in low gear.



Here is an example of a vehicle where the automatic and all that fancy stuff does not work when it was needed

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There are other examples where the automatics and traction control system work against the driver when things got somewhat nasty. However, I do think Jeep's automatic systems do work well in most cases.

Granted, there some cases where an automatic is easier (e.g., crawling) and there are some cases where a manual will better (when you want to tranny to stay just in that one gear).

As an instructor for teaching people how to drive on the track, yes, automatics, paddleshifters, ABS, traction control etc. are crutches that help students to learn how to drive on the track. Ever watch Top Gear, or similar? Most professional drivers (e.g., The Stig) get rid of all the drivers aids when they go for a fast lap.

At the track, my students often initially think they can drive. They do not know that they do not know how to drive or even hold the steering wheel and turn it. My first task is to teach a student that they do not know how to drive. Typically, at the end of a weekend, most first time students have learned that they do not know how to drive. In a nutshell, us instructors jokingly call this taking a student from an uniformed incompetent to an informed incompetent. Once a student is at this point, the learning can begin.

Same is true with manuals. In the hands of a master, a manual is a beautiful thing. Many of those automated systems are there because most people are not interested in developing the skills needed to perfect their driving skills. Much simpler to put a tranny is "D" and press the skinny pedal. When brakes are needed, stomp the brakes and let the ABS do the work. To fast in a corner, let the traction control catch you. IMHO, very little is learned this way. The students who learn the most are those who don't have driving aids (e.g., a pre 1990's 911) and work relentlessly working on their skills to properly drive a manual.

Bottom line, manuals are great. Yes, it is a preference thing, but it is also a way to become more in sync with your car/Jeep. Driving a manual will allow the you to do things that modern vehicle electronics will not let you do (e.g., using the starter move the car while it is gear). Driving a manual takes time to learn and time to develop those skills. Developing those skills either on road, on the track, or off road makes one a better driver. And, it the type of vehicle doesn't matter, (e.g., Jeep, Porsche, Miata, Mustang) as long as it is a manual, you can learn. Until one has spent the time to truly develop skills associated with driving a manual, one will never know the full benefits of a manual. I can only hope that one day, you take the time to develop those skills.
funny, you do realize a starter is an electric motor... the rest is just software in the modern day, thus learn to program and one can turn the software Nannies on or off.. I agree driving skill is muscle memory and will always be better than software for the foreseeable future, for those on the edge aka the masters.. . I used to run Manuals and now i run my auto in manual mode, thus i don't have to push a clutch :)

Great write up!
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TCogs1

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So why are all these people buying these special chargers if they can just plug into a wall socket?
most EV folks never use 110v, I use my 220v 34 amp (standard dryer plug = $20 DYI) most of the time, daily ($2 for a 200 mile charge ~ 6-8 hours while I am sleeping) and DC fast chargers are ~20 -30min and they are everywhere and cost more ~$15 for 200 miles. My Jeep was $104 gas bill for the same range last weekend.. Granted my Mustang EV does not have 37 Maxxis either, but there is no comparison to EV efficiency and torque (417), its just a storage and recharge limitation. Small daily runs (200-300) is where EV shins today.
 

Zandcwhite

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Your right on track, in the mountain e-bike world the ones that do the best are midmount motors while still using the gears in the rear vs rear hub motors. It is known fact electric motors consume, require more energy (watts) with fixed gears and will yield less torque than multiple gears. . all motors have a range of optimum efficiency, gears extend the range (RPM, Torque, and Horsepower). In the machine tool (NC lathes and Mills) world DC motors with gear boxes for >30 years, this is nothing new..

In my view, I hope Jeep does stick with a manual trans and a 4 to 1 t-case.. I would hate to lose the solid axles.. I watched side by sides break and have terrible time at Calico trail blazers run last weekend as the Jeep based buggies and Slightly modified crawled up obstacles.

REF: Hub Motor vs Mid Drive Motor Comparison – E-BIKE REVIEW AND NEWS (ebikereviewer.com)
Kind of an apples and potatoes comparison though. A tiny, low torque hub motor in an electric assist bicycle that needs to be light enough to carry , load, etc even with batteries vs 1-4 massive high torque, high voltage, huge battery pack, 600-1,200 ftlbs, EV powertrains? I wonder which one needs gears to be effective? I could see keeping the tcase at most, even that is a stretch when a Jeep has a very limited speed range in comparison to most other EV's on the market. When our rubicons are limited to 99mph, that's half the speed range a model S plaid is built for. There is no lacking for torque in a dual motor tesla, I can only imagine what the tri-motor plaid feels like. Just copying that drivetrain with double the gear reduction would be more torque than any Jeep could ever need. I'm hoping for something like the ebeam solid axle with motor mounted on it, or even better a solid axle with portal hub motor design allowing for solid axle articulation and portals massive ground clearance. In reality we will likely get some neutered, fully independent, car style platform developed for modularity across stelantis vehicles.
 

JeepFiend

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most EV folks never use 110v, I use my 220v 34 amp (standard dryer plug = $20 DYI) most of the time, daily ($2 for a 200 mile charge ~ 6-8 hours while I am sleeping) and DC fast chargers are ~20 -30min and they are everywhere and cost more ~$15 for 200 miles. My Jeep was $104 gas bill for the same range last weekend.. Granted my Mustang EV does not have 37 Maxxis either, but there is no comparison to EV efficiency and torque (417), its just a storage and recharge limitation. Small daily runs (200-300) is where EV shins today.
Well don't get me wrong. I'm not necessarily knocking EV. I'd drive a tesla as a daily driver no worries, but I wouldn't want to make long trips on one because the infrastructure isn't there. A quick search showed most of those chargers are a couple blocks off the main highway, so you have to plan your trip around where they are vs gas stations and truck stops that litter the main highways. And even then, I've come eeking into a station on less than a confident amount of fuel. =) I'm sure one day it will be there and we'll be able to take long trips to enjoy the radiant views of vast solar farms and open windmill ranges, it's just not there yet. That pic of the Iraan charging station is just down the hill from a giant wind farm, but I'm not sure I'd be confident that building would still be standing the next time I drove by. :LOL: :LOL: :LOL:
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