Tazer (Programmer) for the JL

[jravin]

It's all about $ and I believe they will void your warranty. Just look at them upcharging everyone just for a tire size recal. They obviously know about the Tazer and is forcing you to go through them.

I cannot say anything is absolute as I just do not know all of the details. But what I can say, and I posted it earlier, is that I took my JL in for service last week after un-marring and removing the Tazer JL and I did not hear anything back from them regarding it or anything else for that matter. Performed the oil change and rotated the tires and again, they did not ask me anything about it.
Just an FYI.

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[OldGuyNewJeep]

I know they have to prove it is what caused the issue

No, they don't. Not until they deny your claim and you take them to court, anyway.

I think your fear is valid, and I share it... even though I do want the Tazer, too!

Good write up from @Demonic, here. To wit:

I think it's important we elaborate on the statement "They have to show that the tune is what created the damage otherwise the warranty is fine and dandy," as it's a bit misleading as stated. You're referencing the Magnuson-Moss warranty act. This is a legal precedent and therefore doesn't come into play until your warranty denial enters the legal arena. People with aftermarket tunes on cars are routinely denied warranty coverage because of a tune, and it's often based on the dealer and sometimes the manufacturer. Once the dealer denies warranty coverage, you could then try to go up the corporate ladder to FCA or whichever car manufacturer we're talking about. When then doesn't work, you could then sue for denial of coverage. Your legal precedent in the lawsuit would be the Magnuson-Moss warranty act. The car company knows that it's unlikely for you to spend the amount of money needed to lawyer up against their own legal time, so they can simply start off by denying your coverage and then saying if you don't like it, sue them. A similar issue just happened recently with the Viper crowd, who had casting defects in the blocks, and FCA was denying coverage because they had tunes, and in some cases even if previous owners had tunes that had since been removed. This was a clear case of the Magnuson-Moss act being something in their favor, but for many of them they realized that the cost of legally going after FCA was going to cost as much as the engine repairs. Heck, one GT350 owner had a dealer try to deny him warranty coverage because he had an oil catch-can installed.

Furthermore, many manufacturers will specifically state in the manual somewhere that aftermarket tuning or software can void your warranty. This line is specifically placed so that in a legal situation they can say that you specifically ran the engine outside of the parameters in which it was engineered to run, and that they therefore shouldn't be liable. Let's not forget, much of the drive for the Magnuson-Moss act was to prevent manufacturers from forcing customers to pay for their brands of things like oil or parts, and then deny coverage if you didn't use their products. It was not a legal precedent for forcing manufacturers to warranty modified engines.

So yes, your local dealer may be fine doing warranty service on a car with a tune. But telling people that a dealer has to prove your tune caused the failure in order to deny service simply isn't true. You'll find plenty of people who had coverage denied the moment the tune was found. Whether you want to pursue things legally at that point is up to you.

Edit: Before the fanboys start screaming that "Tazer isn't a tune! It just toggles configuration parameters on or off," I fully understand that. I also fully understand that FCA can see that those options were toggled by a 3rd party, and it's for that reason that I'm leery. Resetting back to factory default does not erase the history...

 

[smuddy]

I cannot say anything is absolute as I just do not know all of the details. But what I can say, and I posted it earlier, is that I took my JL in for service last week after un-marring and removing the Tazer JL and I did not hear anything back from them regarding it or anything else for that matter. Performed the oil change and rotated the tires and again, they did not ask me anything about it.
Just an FYI.

If you are having electrical problems and a warranty repair is needed, I believe they'd check.

 

[smuddy]

No, they don't. Not until they deny your claim and you take them to court, anyway.

I think your fear is valid, and I share it... even though I do want the Tazer, too!

Yep, that's my fear... Having to take them to court. I'm thinking this isn't worth it. If this were an Uber-reliable vehicle, then maybe. I think I may be bowing out and will just pay the dealer... But dang, I really want the goodies tazer provides!!

 

[Cov]

I don't want to go to court against someone who has billions even though I too want the tazer so badly

 

[aug0211]

I’m close to biting at the Tazer. Comparing it to SuperChips, of course - mostly because I’m more familiar with the SC name and also due to price (the SC is cheaper).

I see on the Tazer site that they have drop downs to select the vehicle specifics - and there is only a drop down for the 3.6 engine. Do we know if the same version also supports the 2.0T? I have a 2.0T on order and would like to have my programmer (whether it is Tazer of SC) on hand when it arrives.

 

[aug0211]

No

Curious to hear if there are updates on this one or if ZAuto (couldn't remember the actual username to tag - sorry) plans to add the option to disable auto-park in a future update?

EDIT: I quoted a post that gave zero context.... sorry about that. FB's "No" was in response to a question as to whether or not the Tazer can disable the auto-park option. So I'm wondering if it's planned to come in a future update.

 

[Chocolate Thunder]

No, they don't. Not until they deny your claim and you take them to court, anyway.

I think your fear is valid, and I share it... even though I do want the Tazer, too!

Good write up from @Demonic, here. To wit:



Edit: Before the fanboys start screaming that "Tazer isn't a tune! It just toggles configuration parameters on or off," I fully understand that. I also fully understand that FCA can see that those options were toggled by a 3rd party, and it's for that reason that I'm leery. Resetting back to factory default does not erase the history...

This exactly times eleventy billion! Manufacturers/sellers of this device and some of their mindless minions completely ignore this. They simply keep repeating that automaker XXX must prove the tune/alteration caused the damage. No they don’t! They deny and put the legal burden on the owner who typically lacks the money, patience, and fortitude to follow through with legal action.

That’s not to say that every dealership will check every time you take your vehicle in for anything. But they can so if the warranty is a big issue to you, caveat emptor. Just ask the Audi boys with APR tunes who thought they were smart by flashing back to stock before taking in their blown engines. Surprise!

 

[CuylerTech]

The way the Tazer/Procal/Flashcal all write to the BCM is the same. Its also the same way the Witech Pods at the dealer write to the BCM. It cant tell who or what wrote to it, all it has is a flash counter for each config. For illustration purposes say the vehicle stock starts at 1 for each of the 10 or so configs. Dealer programs bigger tire size, the config that houses the tire circumfrence value changes from 1 to 2. BCM update comes out and the dealer updates it, all the counters would go up by 1. There is no identifiable signature of what was written. They can just see the BCM was updated x amount of times.

 

[OldGuyNewJeep]

The way the Tazer/Procal/Flashcal all write to the BCM is the same. Its also the same way the Witech Pods at the dealer write to the BCM. It cant tell who or what wrote to it, all it has is a flash counter for each config. For illustration purposes say the vehicle stock starts at 1 for each of the 10 or so configs. Dealer programs bigger tire size, the config that houses the tire circumfrence value changes from 1 to 2. BCM update comes out and the dealer updates it, all the counters would go up by 1. There is no identifiable signature of what was written. They can just see the BCM was updated x amount of times.

But what they do have is a paid for contract that goes to FCA in order to flash. So, flash counter > 0 and no contract means 3rd party, or so one might deduce. Could be tough for them to prove if you’re a good liar, I guess.

Anyway, good info. If my Jeep ever comes, I’ll probably get a Tazer after I put on enough miles to feel confident in the build.

 

[CuylerTech]

But what they do have is a paid for contract that goes to FCA in order to flash. So, flash counter > 0 and no contract means 3rd party, or so one might deduce. Could be tough for them to prove if you’re a good liar, I guess.

Anyway, good info. If my Jeep ever comes, I’ll probably get a Tazer after I put on enough miles to feel confident in the build.

The flash counter is for a whole config which is like 10 or so features. there isnt a flash counter for every single individual feature

 

[Chocolate Thunder]

The flash counter is for a whole config which is like 10 or so features. there isnt a flash counter for every single individual feature

Does FCA not record the counter in stored vehicle data and access it at the next service? For example if an owner brings it in for service at 7 and 4 months later they bring it in broken with the counter at 16 because they’ve monkeyed around with it several times, is that not a red flag?

 

[CuylerTech]

Does FCA not record the counter in stored vehicle data and access it at the next service? For example if an owner brings it in for service at 7 and 4 months later they bring it in broken with the counter at 16 because they’ve monkeyed around with it several times, is that not a red flag?

They do not.

 

[Chocolate Thunder]

They do not.

Tjanks. Good to know. So what is the purpose of a counter if nobody is keeping track of the count? What other purpose does it serve?

 

[CuylerTech]

Tjanks. Good to know. So what is the purpose of a counter if nobody is keeping track of the count? What other purpose does it serve?

No clue. Its been there since the TIPM days.

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