Tazer Mini JL - Question about what is lost?

[CapnKing]

Thanks Rhinebeck01 !! I will purchase the extension cable before I proceed-good advice!

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[Ruby Clatterbox]

Thanks Rhinebeck01 !! I will purchase the extension cable before I proceed-good advice!

Absolutely! I've dealt with these connectors 3 times now (my fingers are usually numb after a session) and just ordered the extension cable. A MUST have with the Tazer. Thanks!!!

 

[Rhinebeck01]

@MacJack

A real shame to see you / or other's, remove the Tazer JL Mini, if you are enjoying any of the "Live Features".

I am not discounting the comments about security in this thread..... but can tell you, thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of JL/JT owner's are using their vehicles daily with a security bypass installed.

Guys/Gals with tuners, Tazer JL's, etc., etc..

Also, thousands and thousands of others with different brand vehicles, run with security bypasses installed..

The chances of you @MacJack or most anyone else having a bad experience, thanks to a security bypass are probably the same as you winning the State lottery..

I might add, if someone wants your JL, they will get it regardless of whether you have a security bypass in place or not..

In closing, again, I am not discounting the breach of security ... but come on...........

.

 

[Rhinebeck01]

Forgot to mention.... For you guys/gals installing the Tazer JL Lite or Mini.....

I routinely encourage other's to read the post, at the link below... The post is very well done.. and spot on so to speak.

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/tazer-mini-needs-to-stay-married.61293/post-1310209

 

[brewski]

Devon,

Your intuition is spot on. Yes the thing that gets disconnected is the Security Gateway Module (SGW). If this component is bypassed, such as using a Tazer, then on-board vehicle security is potentially compromised and unauthorized access (tampering) can occur. Not that it most definitely will, but it may.

The SGW can be thought of as a firewall for the vehicle's internal control bus. All the vital control components, the Engine, Transmission and Body Control Modules are all better protected from tampering with the SGW installed. The SGW only allows authenticated external Controller Area Network (CAN) protocol messages to pass into the internal communication network from any outside sources. This includes all the infotainment components such as the UConnect radio.

Authentication uses the latest industry standard encryption algorithms. It essentially requires that each and every message received must be from a trusted source. In other words, you must prove that you are in fact who you say you are AND that you have been pre-approved to communicate (send CAN messages) to any of the internal control modules.

Unfortunately, the automotive industry has a very tight 'lock' on exactly who has this authorization. This is pretty much limited to the factory diagnostic tools, the Guardian (On-Star like) remote service providers and the UConnect radio. That's about it.

This makes it extremely difficult for the third-party programming products (such as the Tazer) to gain access to the internal controllers. So in order to get around this, these third-party tools 'bypass' the SGW entirely. This then allows any CAN message to be injected into the internal CAN Bus from any source (by anyone, or anything) without regard to any type of authentication. Essentially there is little to no digital security with a 'bypassed' SGW.

This is exactly how the third-party tools gain unfettered access, in order to be able to do their magic and provide their non-factory supported way-cool behaviors. This is also why they are relatively inexpensive. They just 'pirate' their way into your vehicle.

The real down-side is that this now allows any marginally skilled hacker potential access into your vital vehicle components as well. All they need is your cellular connected UConnect 4 radio's MAC (Media Access Control) Address. A pretty easy thing to do for even the most novice of hackers.

Once this addressing information is known, without the SGW provided firewall, there is really now nothing to stop them from injecting arbitrary CAN messages of their choosing into your vehicle. They can literally be as nefarious as they want to be.

Fortunately, some tools like the Tazer work in two modes of operation; 'Live' and 'Non-Live'. Unfortunately the really cool features work in the 'Live' mode where the Tazer must remain plugged-in at all times (the SGW must be bypassed) in order for it to function. Once 'married' these features must interactively communicate to one or more of the internal control modules in real-time (live) to work. ESS Disable, the various light shows and the 30 and 60 second timer features are all 'Live'.

On the other hand the 'Non-Live' features, such as tire size, TPMS thtesholds and LED lighting simply do just a one time configuration and therefore don't need to remain continuously plugged-in. Once 'married' and configured, the Tazer can then be safely removed (while still 'married') and the SGW can be reinstalled. In this mode, no digital security is then compromised. All external CAN access must again be crypto authenticated.

So only you can be the judge of just how 'cool' some of these 'Live' functions are relative to how much risk you're willing to live with. Some argue that this risk is really (really) small. But without the SGW installed there certainly now exists a non-zero probability that your vehicle may be exploited. Recall, Murphy's Law states that "if something CAN happen, given enough time it WILL happen".

I personally own and use the Tazer JL Mini myself. But use only it's 'Non-Live' capabilities. I should have purchased the much cheaper Tazer JL Lite which provides no 'Live' functionality. Oh well...

I really hope this answers your question. Many forum members chide me on my willingness to provide detailed posts. I'm glad to do so as long as it helps you or anyone else.

Happy and safe Jeeping...
Jay

excellent post. Really find this helpful. I was mostly thinking of getting the Mini purely for the ESS, but I did not know (as most users probably don't) what side effects it leaves; low probability currently but might not be in the future. makes me want to look for other ways to permanently turn off ESS and just go with the lite.

 

[Rhinebeck01]

@brewski

The SmartStopStart, that deals with ESS, does NOT disconnect the Security Gateway (SGW) like the Taser JL Lite or Tazer JL Mini do.

The SmartStopStart unit is an excellent offering. The fellow that owns SmartStopStart is a fellow JL owner and is also one of our forum Sponsor's.

Currently I run a SSS unit on my JL, and have been doing so for many months and 20+ thousand miles. The SSS works flawlessly..

Buy here:
https://www.smartstopstart.com/jeep-dodge-chrysler-products.html

@SmartStopStart.com

 

[brewski]

@brewski

The SmartStopStart, that deals with ESS, does NOT disconnect the Security Gateway (SGW) like the Taser JL Lite or Tazer JL Mini do.

The SmartStopStart unit is an excellent offering. The fellow that owns SmartStopStart is a fellow JL owner and is also one of our forum Sponsor's.

Currently I run a SSS unit on my JL, and have been doing so for many months and 20+ thousand miles. The SSS works flawlessly..

Buy here:
https://www.smartstopstart.com/jeep-dodge-chrysler-products.html

@SmartStopStart.com

excellent, I'm sold. That was the primary feature that made me want the Tazer over an AEV Procal. Do you know of a doggle thing to let the rear camera be turned on while in forward motion? Something I would like to do since I tow frequenty.

 

[Rhinebeck01]

excellent, I'm sold. That was the primary feature that made me want the Tazer over an AEV Procal. Do you know of a doggle thing to let the rear camera be turned on while in forward motion? Something I would like to do since I tow frequenty.

@brewski
Unfortunately, only the Tazer JL can facilitate rear camera on for as long as you want when moving forward, when towing and whenever. I ran with a Tazer JL for 2 yrs.+ and used that feature lots when towing.

As I mentioned in my earlier post.... I cannot see not going with a Tazer JL Mini or Lite and leaving it hooked up all the time because you are worried about having the security bypassed. Chances of you ever having a security related issue because of doing so would be rare rare rare as hell...

Regardless of SSS or Tazer JL, do buy the SGW Extension Cable mentioned earlier. IT is well worth the $. Will make things so much easier and in the end you will EASILY be able to resell it for close to what you paid for it..

 

[CapnKing]

@CapnKing

I urge you to hold off on doing this deed for a few days... Do order the SGW Extension Cable, first.
Then, after you get the SGW Extension Cable, disconnect the connectors at the gateway and install the SGW Extension Cable.

Reason why.... Because you are going to be having to connect and reconnect your Tazer JL Mini, many times over the course of your ownership of your JL. Regardless of whether you leave the Tazer JL Mini attached 24/7, 365... or even if you don't use "Live Features" and leave the Tazer JL Mini unattached...... you still MUST hook up the Tazer JL Mini, and unmarry the Tazer JL Mini before you bring the JL to the stealership Service Dept. Then when you get the vehicle back, you hookup the Tazer JL Mini and remarry it....

Buy the mentioned extension and you will only have to deal with those two connectors up there once.. and after that removing the Tazer JL Mini will be no issue at all for you.

By the way, when you go to disconnect the cables. First, push up firmly.... force the cable into the connector...... now push in on the connector's release on the back of the cable, and at the exact same time /while still holding the release in, firmly pull down on the cable.. A little wiggle of the cable as you pull on it, also helps to get the connector free.

Sometimes a teen or Gal pal can do the deed without trouble as their hands are smaller... finger's more nimble.

https://www.zautomotive.com/product/sgw-extension-cable/

I ordered it an paid with paypal-got a confirmation from paypal but not one from ZAutomotive

 

[Rhinebeck01]

I ordered it an paid with paypal-got a confirmation from paypal but not one from ZAutomotive

@CapnKing
You can reach out to ZAutomotive if you want... Undoubtedly, all is well with your order..

 

[jeepoch]

All,

We went around and around on this security issue in other forum threads. I agree that:

1. Having your particular vehicle hacked is very unlikely (very low but more than zero probability).

2. If someone wants your Jeep bad enough they will get it regardless of whether your SGW is bypassed or not.

3. The joy of ownership with these third-party programmers can't be underestimated.

Yet my primary worry (not significant but still a worry) is that as these 'tools' which require the security automotive industry's standard protection mechanisms to be bypassed become more and more popular, this only increases the value that the 'bad guys' will want to exploit it. After all, they made missiles out of passenger aircraft. Making missiles out of passenger cars and trucks must certainly also be in their mindsets as well.

Whether or not you subscribe to the conspiracy theory of some very recent (but very compelling and astute) novels, such as "Threat Bias" and "False Assurances" by Christopher Rosow to name just a single author, a medium-tech attack on our naive society using exploitable vehicles as a mass-destruction weapon is pretty spooky. And is in fact possible as more and more cars become prone to exploitation.

Even a very small percentage of vulnerable vehicles, can make for a highly valuable attack vector and one that can do considerable harm in a very small amount of time.

Will this happen? Not very likely. But nobody would of thought that a few small teams of terrorists would have brought New York City, Washington DC and the innocence of an entire nation to see the levels ov evil that they're willing to execute. The bad guys are insanely evil. Don't ever doubt that.

I for one don't want to give them even a small potential for a new attack vector. Being a Marine I do understand just how bad these guys can be.

However, only you can decide what is best for you. Can you also decide to not where a mask in public? After all, that's to better protect society at large. Why is unmasking your Security Gateway Module any different?

Just more food for thought.

So the ubiquitous assault on the question of freedom vs security is being challenged today in so many ways. How can we be so accepting of one societal protection mechanism but so against another?

This to me is so very perplexing. I guess that's why life is so damn complicated.

Jay

 

[BlackGenesis]

Anyone considering getting Lite version of Tazer, should look into OBDJscan. You get alot more functions for less (almost as many functions as T Mini).

 

[Rhinebeck01]

Anyone considering getting Lite version of Tazer, should look into OBDJscan. You get alot more functions for less (almost as many functions as T Mini).

@BlackGenesis You"re stretching it a bit when you say "(almost as many functions as T Mini" ... Funny....

Yes, JSCAN is aok... and as a user of same , I concur, if all you want is what the Lite offers, then do look into JSCAN. With JSCAN you won't get/find the hand holding / support that you get with the Tazer JL Lite or Mini though..

 

[CapnKing]

@CapnKing
You can reach out to ZAutomotive if you want... Undoubtedly, all is well with your order..

All well with my order!! ZAutomotive responded within the hour and my order shipped already--thanks!

 

[Rhinebeck01]

All well with my order!! ZAutomotive responded within the hour and my order shipped already--thanks!

@CapnKing

Figured that.... 8-)

You will find ZAutomotive really a good outfit to deal with.... You can text Joe the owner, day, night, holiday or whatever and the guy gets back to you pretty quickly... He is a very hands on owner... a fellow JL owner and he gives a frig, lets say.

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