Tazer Mini JL - Question about what is lost?

[Jeff2018]

Hey Everyone,

I have a question about the SGW extension cable.

I am assuming that if I don't plan on using the live functions of the Mini, that it would be best to reconnect the two connectors for the SGW once I set the tire size, and whatever other non-live settings I choose to set.

With the SGW extension harness I can go ahead and just attach the two connectors to the opposite extended ends of the pigtail so that next time I want to install the Mini, removing the two connectors from the pigtail will be easier than removing them from the connectors up in the dash. Correct? No concerns about added wire length or anything else that would create problems?

(I was going to post a picture of my bleeding right hand this morning after having a few issues trying to disconnect the two stock connectors. My hands aren't huge. To me it seems like some of the brackets had quite sharp edges that made pretty damn good booby traps for an unsuspecting guy poking around under the dash. lol)

Thanks,

Jeff

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[Rhinebeck01]

Hey Everyone,

I have a question about the SGW extension cable.

I am assuming that if I don't plan on using the live functions of the Mini, that it would be best to reconnect the two connectors for the SGW once I set the tire size, and whatever other non-live settings I choose to set.

With the SGW extension harness I can go ahead and just attach the two connectors to the opposite extended ends of the pigtail so that next time I want to install the Mini, removing the two connectors from the pigtail will be easier than removing them from the connectors up in the dash. Correct? No concerns about added wire length or anything else that would create problems?

(I was going to post a picture of my bleeding right hand this morning after having a few issues trying to disconnect the two stock connectors. My hands aren't huge. To me it seems like some of the brackets had quite sharp edges that made pretty damn good booby traps for an unsuspecting guy poking around under the dash. lol)

Thanks,

Jeff

@Jeff2018

There is no problem leaving the SGW Extension Cable in place.... have no concerns doing so...
Myself and others have been doing so... leaving the extension installed/in place, since around 11/20 and with no problems ..

When you bring to the stealership, don't even bother removing the SGW Extension cable.... just tuck it up well under there... Tech will be clueless..... unless he/she is very very familiar with what's up there and 98% of them are not.

YES, do unmarry and remove the Tazer JL Mini whenever the JL goes to the stealership.

Not sure why you do not want the Mini to stay connected..... you will be missing out on some terrific Live features.

.

 

[timn1984]

Devon,

Your intuition is spot on. Yes the thing that gets disconnected is the Security Gateway Module (SGW). If this component is bypassed, such as using a Tazer, then on-board vehicle security is potentially compromised and unauthorized access (tampering) can occur. Not that it most definitely will, but it may.

The SGW can be thought of as a firewall for the vehicle's internal control bus. All the vital control components, the Engine, Transmission and Body Control Modules are all better protected from tampering with the SGW installed. The SGW only allows authenticated external Controller Area Network (CAN) protocol messages to pass into the internal communication network from any outside sources. This includes all the infotainment components such as the UConnect radio.

Authentication uses the latest industry standard encryption algorithms. It essentially requires that each and every message received must be from a trusted source. In other words, you must prove that you are in fact who you say you are AND that you have been pre-approved to communicate (send CAN messages) to any of the internal control modules.

Unfortunately, the automotive industry has a very tight 'lock' on exactly who has this authorization. This is pretty much limited to the factory diagnostic tools, the Guardian (On-Star like) remote service providers and the UConnect radio. That's about it.

This makes it extremely difficult for the third-party programming products (such as the Tazer) to gain access to the internal controllers. So in order to get around this, these third-party tools 'bypass' the SGW entirely. This then allows any CAN message to be injected into the internal CAN Bus from any source (by anyone, or anything) without regard to any type of authentication. Essentially there is little to no digital security with a 'bypassed' SGW.

This is exactly how the third-party tools gain unfettered access, in order to be able to do their magic and provide their non-factory supported way-cool behaviors. This is also why they are relatively inexpensive. They just 'pirate' their way into your vehicle.

The real down-side is that this now allows any marginally skilled hacker potential access into your vital vehicle components as well. All they need is your cellular connected UConnect 4 radio's MAC (Media Access Control) Address. A pretty easy thing to do for even the most novice of hackers.

Once this addressing information is known, without the SGW provided firewall, there is really now nothing to stop them from injecting arbitrary CAN messages of their choosing into your vehicle. They can literally be as nefarious as they want to be.

Fortunately, some tools like the Tazer work in two modes of operation; 'Live' and 'Non-Live'. Unfortunately the really cool features work in the 'Live' mode where the Tazer must remain plugged-in at all times (the SGW must be bypassed) in order for it to function. Once 'married' these features must interactively communicate to one or more of the internal control modules in real-time (live) to work. ESS Disable, the various light shows and the 30 and 60 second timer features are all 'Live'.

On the other hand the 'Non-Live' features, such as tire size, TPMS thtesholds and LED lighting simply do just a one time configuration and therefore don't need to remain continuously plugged-in. Once 'married' and configured, the Tazer can then be safely removed (while still 'married') and the SGW can be reinstalled. In this mode, no digital security is then compromised. All external CAN access must again be crypto authenticated.

So only you can be the judge of just how 'cool' some of these 'Live' functions are relative to how much risk you're willing to live with. Some argue that this risk is really (really) small. But without the SGW installed there certainly now exists a non-zero probability that your vehicle may be exploited. Recall, Murphy's Law states that "if something CAN happen, given enough time it WILL happen".

I personally own and use the Tazer JL Mini myself. But use only it's 'Non-Live' capabilities. I should have purchased the much cheaper Tazer JL Lite which provides no 'Live' functionality. Oh well...

I really hope this answers your question. Many forum members chide me on my willingness to provide detailed posts. I'm glad to do so as long as it helps you or anyone else.

Happy and safe Jeeping...
Jay

Jay I did the same thing as you. I purchased a JL Mini but really only need it only for 'non-live" utilities. I thought I might "need" the other functions, but after your post I think Ill just use non- live at this time. Thanks for the informative post.

 

[Jeff2018]

HI Rhinebeck,

@Jeff2018

There is no problem leaving the SGW Extension Cable in place.... have no concerns doing so...
Myself and others have been doing so... leaving the extension installed/in place, since around 11/20 and with no problems ..

When you bring to the stealership, don't even bother removing the SGW Extension cable.... just tuck it up well under there... Tech will be clueless..... unless he/she is very very familiar with what's up there and 98% of them are not.

YES, do unmarry and remove the Tazer JL Mini whenever the JL goes to the stealership.

Not sure why you do not want the Mini to stay connected..... you will be missing out on some terrific Live features.

.

I may chose to leave the Mini installed, depending on giving some of those live functions a try.

The only concern, albeit small, is of any type of problem that may arise having the SGW not connected in the factor configuration.

Maybe I'm just getting older and less tolerant to making a mistake. I don't want to forget to remove and un-marry the Mini.

After gaining some experience with it I may come around to your way of thinking.

Thanks for your reply.

Take Care,

Jeff

 

[Jeff2018]

Hi Everyone,

Finally getting ready to install the Mini. It may be obvious; but, a couple other question I have are about removing the Mini.

1. Before removing the Mini, if I un-marry the Mini, will the vehicle settings (e.g. tire size) revert back to stock, or will that change be retained by the Jeep's computer? (I'm assuming it will be retained; but, I thought I should confirm.)

2. When I install (or remove) the Mini, should the ignition (and accessories) be "off", or does it matter? Is there are correct method recommended for doing this?

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[Rhinebeck01]

@Jeff2018

If you unmarry, all your settings revert, so you need to leave it married.

When you physically install or remove the Tazer JL unit, the JL should be turned off.

Were I you, I would leave married... leave Tazer JL Mini attached and enjoy/use the many "Live features".

Hint: Write down on a piece of paper ALL the settings you make/use. This way when you unmarry and lose the settings, you can easily redo the settings when you remarry.... You will have your paper with the settings so you do not have to try to remember what the fruck setting you used.... 8-)

.

 

[Jeff2018]

Hi Rhinebeck01,

@Jeff2018

If you unmarry, all your settings revert, so you need to leave it married.

When you physically install or remove the Tazer JL unit, the JL should be turned off.

Were I you, I would leave married and enjoy/use the many 'Live features".

Hint: Write down on a piece of paper ALL the settings you make/use. This way when you unmarry and lose the settings, you can easily redo the settings when you remarry.... You will have your paper with the settings so you do not have to try to remember what the fruck setting you used.... 8-)

.

That was quick! Thanks for the input.

My biggest fear, at least while the JL is new, is having something fail and needing to return it to a dealer for warranty service. I figure if I don't have it installed, then it won't be an issue with "forgetting" or not being able to do it. Once I get some trail time with the Jeep, the Mini will likely stay married and installed.

That leads to the question about the tire size. I have heard that some (if not most) dealers want to charge on the order of $100 to reset the tire size. If I un-marry the Mini, and then take it for service of any kind, they will likely want to reset the tire size if it is showing as stock 33". At that point in time I either tell them I am using the Mini and that it isn't necessary to pay for that service, or I pay them and keep quiet.

If un-marrying the Mini reverts tire size back to stock, there really won't be any difference in leaving the Mini installed. I'll just need to make sure I un-marry and remove prior to any dealer work... in whatever situation.

(I am also a little concerned about the security function being disabled... as remote as the consequences may be.)

I totally agree on writing things down. I'm a big believer in ink and paper lasting longer than some of the things I try to keep in my head. lol

Thanks again for your help.

Jeff

 

[jludave]

If I un-marry the Mini, and then take it for service of any kind, they will likely want to reset the tire size if it is showing as stock 33". At that point in time I either tell them I am using the Mini and that it isn't necessary to pay for that service, or I pay them and keep quiet.

Unless the dealer has a specific reason for looking at and changing your tire size, they won't. You don't have any obligation to tell them about the Tazer. That is the point of unmarrying the device before you bring it in for service. You set everything back to stock by unmarrying and the dealer then knows nothing. Again, DO NOT tell the dealer anything and DO NOT pay to have them check and/or change your tire size.

 

[Jeff2018]

Hi David,

Unless the dealer has a specific reason for looking at and change your tire size, they won't. You don't have any obligation to tell them about the Tazer. That is the point of unmarrying the device before you bring it in for service. You set everything back to stock by unmarrying and the dealer then knows nothing. Again, DO NOT tell the dealer anything and DO NOT pay to have them check and/or change your tire size.

May I ask what your reason is for not having the tire size set by the dealer?

If I were a dealer and I had a vehicle come in with substantial modifications for off-roading, and that owner said they were going to run the tire settings at stock versus the 37", I would have trouble believing other things they were telling me.

There are certain things that I believe are worth fighting for, other things I would prefer to avoid, or at least delay.

Thanks for your input.

Jeff

 

[jludave]

May I ask what your reason is for not having the tire size set by the dealer?

I don't need them to change it. I have a Tazer and JScan as a backup. I set my tire size myself.

A dealer technically cannot do anything to a vehicle that you don't ask them to do, and they must disclose to you what's been done in the course of working on/fixing an issue you ask them to fix.

Should a customer choose to run 37s without changing their tire size, that's their choice. The dealer can advise against it, but cannot and should not change anything without the customer's approval. Many Jeep owners change tires without recalibrating and choose just to remember that the speedo and mileage will be off.

Lastly, changing tire size isn't always an exact science. For some it takes several tries to get the programmed size correct so that the speedo is accurate. A 37" tire may not actually measure 37" inched when aired up and under the weight of the vehicle.

 

[wolfievtec]

Would everyone suggest taking the Tazer Mini out of the vehicle for even oil changes, tire rotations & inspections if it's done at the dealer? I imagine yes to be safe for warranty purposes....

 

[jludave]

Would everyone suggest taking the Tazer Mini out of the vehicle for even oil changes, tire rotations & inspections if it's done at the dealer? I imagine yes to be safe for warranty purposes....

Yes. The recommendation is to unmarry, not just remove, the Tazer for any type of dealer service.

 

[Rhinebeck01]

If you unmarry and remove the Tazer then you need to reconnect to the security device to get all the functions operational.

@PaulW

Yes, and...

IF, if you remove the Tazer JL hardware and do not reconnect the 2 cables at the Security Gateway (SGW), the WiTech ll that the dealerships Tech hooks up to, cannot communicate with the JL/JLU/JT.... This would be an issue....

 

[alksion]

Wow this is pretty good information. I’m glad I searched the forums first. I should have ordered SGW extension cable initially. All is well. Just ordered it now.

Also my 37“ BFG K02 C Load actually sit at about 35.5” when mounted. Can I adjust the tazer to this amount exactly? Sorry still waiting for my 392.

 

[alksion]

If you calculate the tire diameter from the manufacturers tire RPM (tire rev per mile) your setting will be correct the first time. No guessing and not tape measure use.

Can you explain a little further?

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