Suspension sagging due to added weight - spacer lift or.....?

[jhackathorne]

Factory steel bumper, winch (plus winch plate) and MORE steel oil/tranny skid.

EDIT: If you are not running a winch or anything else to add weight to the front I would consider the 1" in front. I would also try to go through Poly Performance for Synergy lifts. I am wondering if they would be able to piece it together if you wanted 1"F/2"R. I got mine through them and was able to get a discount as well. Though it was over a year ago.

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[SlickRickMotoADV]

Factory steel bumper, winch (plus winch plate) and MORE steel oil/tranny skid.

EDIT: If you are not running a winch or anything else to add weight to the front I would consider the 1" in front. I would also try to go through Poly Performance for Synergy lifts. I am wondering if they would be able to piece it together if you wanted 1"F/2"R. I got mine through them and was able to get a discount as well. Though it was over a year ago.

I have a winch but my metal bumper is aluminum not steel. I have full skids, but the oil pan skid is aluminum too. Others are steel.

I probably need to call Synergy

Poly performance is local(ish) to me so I'll definitely use them.

 

[jhackathorne]

Not sure if he is there still or not, but I spoke with Cameron Hays. He was super knowledgable.

 

[SlickRickMotoADV]

Just called Synergy.
They said the 2" rear starter kit would work great. Kind of a toss up on 1" vs 2" for the front, but they stated that 1" should be ok.

Hard choice for which front to go with. I could always add a small spacer to the rear if I needed.

 

[blink9cd]

I used it on the front to remove the rake. Left me with a .5 inch rake after adding the front steel bumper. It would have been a full inch if I hadn't included it, which would have been noticeable.

Ah ok that makes sense to me now. I've seen several people mention using spacers while doing the spring swap, and a local shop recommended 3/4" to me when describing how they'd go about it.

I've never measured my rake before, so I need to confirm, but sounds likely I have a .5" rake from the factory? I'll be moving 4 steps up each (57/58 to 61/62, 87/88 to 91/92), so imagining that will preserve the factory rake... So sounds like a .5" would put me dead even, and 3/4" a bit higher, but I'm considering eventually switching out the plastic bumper to something aluminum with bull/skid/possible winch.

Based on your experience is something like this what I should be looking for?

https://www.quadratec.com/p/teraflex/0.5-Inch-front-coil-spacer-load-level-kit-jeep-wrangler-jl
https://www.quadratec.com/p/fishbon...leveling-kit-wrangler-jl-gladiator-jt-FB47173

 

[Jim1964]

Have you determined which springs you actually have? There’s a lot of variation in Rubicon springs apparently. Mine came with 57/58 and 91/92 (JLUR 2.0, hard top, plastic bumpers, tow pkg). Apparently the 2.0 got me light springs in front while the tow pkg forced heavy rears. It has a significant rake.

I will be changing the front to 61/62 to correct the rake and compensate for my winch bumper and engine/trans skid.

If you wan to remain at OEM Rubicon ride height, I would expect there’s an OEM spring set to fit your weight. There’s always the diesel or V8 springs to option up to as well.

 

[JLUandCJ-7]

Ah ok that makes sense to me now. I've seen several people mention using spacers while doing the spring swap, and a local shop recommended 3/4" to me when describing how they'd go about it.

I've never measured my rake before, so I need to confirm, but sounds likely I have a .5" rake from the factory? I'll be moving 4 steps up each (57/58 to 61/62, 87/88 to 91/92), so imagining that will preserve the factory rake... So sounds like a .5" would put me dead even, and 3/4" a bit higher, but I'm considering eventually switching out the plastic bumper to something aluminum with bull/skid/possible winch.

Based on your experience is something like this what I should be looking for?

https://www.quadratec.com/p/teraflex/0.5-Inch-front-coil-spacer-load-level-kit-jeep-wrangler-jl
https://www.quadratec.com/p/fishbon...leveling-kit-wrangler-jl-gladiator-jt-FB47173

Do you have the 3.6 or 2.0? Going on a 4dr?

 

[blink9cd]

Do you have the 3.6 or 2.0? Going on a 4dr?

Yep 4 door willys with a 2.0.

 

[SlickRickMotoADV]

Have you determined which springs you actually have? There’s a lot of variation in Rubicon springs apparently. Mine came with 57/58 and 91/92 (JLUR 2.0, hard top, plastic bumpers, tow pkg). Apparently the 2.0 got me light springs in front while the tow pkg forced heavy rears. It has a significant rake.

I will be changing the front to 61/62 to correct the rake and compensate for my winch bumper and engine/trans skid.

If you wan to remain at OEM Rubicon ride height, I would expect there’s an OEM spring set to fit your weight. There’s always the diesel or V8 springs to option up to as well.

Yeah it's in post #55.


Driver rear 3590AA
Passenger rear 3591AA
Driver front 3660AD
Passenger front 3661AD

There's posts of people swapping to the one click higher springs than mine, with a Jeep that's nowhere near as loaded as mine, and only received a small increase. That's why I'm not interested in this. Going with the diesel springs, there just isn't enough info out there for that not to be a gamble that could leave me too low, too high, or too stiff.

I'm starting to learn towards the Synergy 2" starter lift, unless someone can give me a good reason not to. It seems that might be the cheapest way to resolve this. If I don't like the feel of the Rubicon shocks with extensions, the Synergy kit allows for easy upgrading to aftermarket shocks. I like the Bilstein 5100 as well as the Fox IFP offerings, and Synergy specifically calls out compatibility with the Fox. This kit will allow me to use the OEM wheels, will not require spacers, and will allow me to retain my current Apex front endlinks.

 

[azwjowner]

Yeah it's in post #55.


Driver rear 3590AA
Passenger rear 3591AA
Driver front 3660AD
Passenger front 3661AD

There's posts of people swapping to the one click higher springs than mine, with a Jeep that's nowhere near as loaded as mine, and only received a small increase. That's why I'm not interested in this. Going with the diesel springs, there just isn't enough info out there for that not to be a gamble that could leave me too low, too high, or too stiff.

I'm starting to learn towards the Synergy 2" starter lift, unless someone can give me a good reason not to. It seems that might be the cheapest way to resolve this. If I don't like the feel of the Rubicon shocks with extensions, the Synergy kit allows for easy upgrading to aftermarket shocks. I like the Bilstein 5100 as well as the Fox IFP offerings, and Synergy specifically calls out compatibility with the Fox. This kit will allow me to use the OEM wheels, will not require spacers, and will allow me to retain my current Apex front endlinks.

My 2 cents is to avoid Synergy as they advertise that their spring rates are barely over stock: https://www.synergymfg.com/synergy-jeep-jl-jlu-jt-front-lift-coil-springs.html

I'd be worried you end up like my friend (FJ Cruiser, not Synergy parts, but stock springs) who had an ARB front bumper; sag wasn't even his main problem -- it was that every bump offroad sent him bouncing way up and down as the springs were too soft for the weight. I think those springs would be too soft for your load; excessive bouncing and body roll.

 

[SlickRickMotoADV]

My 2 cents is to avoid Synergy as they advertise that their spring rates are barely over stock: https://www.synergymfg.com/synergy-jeep-jl-jlu-jt-front-lift-coil-springs.html

I'd be worried you end up like my friend (FJ Cruiser, not Synergy parts, but stock springs) who had an ARB front bumper; sag wasn't even his main problem -- it was that every bump offroad sent him bouncing way up and down as the springs were too soft for the weight. I think those springs would be too soft for your load; excessive bouncing and body roll.

You make a good point for sure.

It's really between:

Synergy 2" starter lift

Synergy doesn't state that you need any additional parts, likely just to keep the cost low. I imagine this would result in axles that aren't centered, which could contribute to fitment issues with my narrow axles.

and the

OME 2" Medium (90lb) front spring with 60160 (only shock they offer until over 90lbs added in front) shocks and Heavy (330lb) rear with 60161 (lighter of the 2 heavy shocks).

ARB states that the following needs to be added to the OME kits for proper fitment:

Front and rear adjustable track bars are needed, as they have no provisions for geometry correction or track bar relocation.
Front lower adjustable control arms - not sure if I would need these with my longer Mopar control arms that I already have installed
Front and rear bumpstop kit
Rear adjustable sway bar endlinks
F/R coil trim packers
My front endlinks are only rated for 9.5" shock stroke and the OME shocks are a little over 9.8" - I would need to replace these or use something like the Synergy sway bar endlink relocation kit to gain additional endlink stroke

That's going to push the parts cost of the OME kit well over $2k, and installation from a shop to be near $1k.

With all of that in mind, it just seems like the OME kit is going to push me into a pricing/part category that I wasn't originally planning for. That said, it's very possible that the Synergy kit could ride like crap due to the stock extensions and soft springs, or the lack of the parts the OME is telling me are required.

I think I just need to swallow the pill that there will be no cheap and easy way out of this, if I want it done correctly.

 

[azwjowner]

You make a good point for sure.

It's really between:

Synergy 2" starter lift

Synergy doesn't state that you need any additional parts, likely just to keep the cost low. I imagine this would result in axles that aren't centered, which could contribute to fitment issues with my narrow axles.

and the

OME 2" Medium (90lb) front spring with 60160 (only shock they offer until over 90lbs added in front) shocks and Heavy (330lb) rear with 60161 (lighter of the 2 heavy shocks).

ARB states that the following needs to be added to the OME kits for proper fitment:

Front and rear adjustable track bars are needed, as they have no provisions for geometry correction or track bar relocation.
Front lower adjustable control arms - not sure if I would need these with my longer Mopar control arms that I already have installed
Front and rear bumpstop kit
Rear adjustable sway bar endlinks
F/R coil trim packers
My front endlinks are only rated for 9.5" shock stroke and the OME shocks are a little over 9.8" - I would need to replace these or use something like the Synergy sway bar endlink relocation kit to gain additional endlink stroke

That's going to push the parts cost of the OME kit well over $2k, and installation from a shop to be near $1k.

With all of that in mind, it just seems like the OME kit is going to push me into a pricing/part category that I wasn't originally planning for. That said, it's very possible that the Synergy kit could ride like crap due to the stock extensions and soft springs, or the lack of the parts the OME is telling me are required.

I think I just need to swallow the pill that there will be no cheap and easy way out of this, if I want it done correctly.

Time to make a decision! Don't trim packers just add extra height? (Which you probably don't want). I'd personally go OME, hold off on the track bars and control arms, make sure you like the up and down feel (not necessarily the steering) around town first, and then add them as necessary. But then I'd do the work myself. It's pretty straightforward if you have the tools and a free weekend.

 

[jhackathorne]

Again, I am running the same 2" Synergy springs and have ZERO issues with them. I get barely any sag in rear fully loaded. They are rated higher than stock springs and it is apparently enough to make a difference. The one photo I posted of my JL was loaded up. Can you see the sag in that photo (post 23)? I am running the Fox 2.0's and I prefer them over the Bilstein 5100's for sure. They are softer (perfect on FS roads and any washboard road), but still do not have any dive in them when braking. Synergy starter kit sound like a good plan. It allows you to get the height you need/want and not have to add much, if anything.

 

[SlickRickMotoADV]

Time to make a decision! Don't trim packers just add extra height? (Which you probably don't want). I'd personally go OME, hold off on the track bars and control arms, make sure you like the up and down feel (not necessarily the steering) around town first, and then add them as necessary. But then I'd do the work myself. It's pretty straightforward if you have the tools and a free weekend.

The trim packers are solely due to the JLU being heavier on the passenger side than the driver. It's about0.25-0.5" lower on that side, so they give you what essentially is a spring spacer just to level it out side to side.

I'm going to see if I can get help from the local Jeep and 4x4 clubs for installation, for sure. Sometimes I just don't have the time and have to pay a shop though. The install quote for Synergy was $900 for the 2" starter. Eek. I know I'm capable of doing it myself, I'm just nervous for some reason.

I guess I can just kind of push this whole project back, should I go with the OME, and slowly accumulate the extra parts required too. I'll keep to your advice of waiting on the control arms and track bars. Will the axles not be so off centered as to not fit at all with the OEM track bars?

Slowly leaning towards OME now.

 

[SlickRickMotoADV]

Again, I am running the same 2" Synergy springs and have ZERO issues with them. I get barely any sag in rear fully loaded. They are rated higher than stock springs and it is apparently enough to make a difference. The one photo I posted of my JL was loaded up. Can you see the sag in that photo? I am running the Fox 2.0's and I prefer them over the Bilstein 5100's for sure. They are softer (perfect on FS roads and any washboard road), but still do not have any dive in them when braking. Synergy starter kit sound like a good plan. It allows you to get the height you need/want and not have to add much, if anything.

Yep I saw. There's a ton of options out there, that's for sure. Adding in a set of shocks to the Synergy starter kit definitely starts pushing things towards OME territory.

While watching a bunch of videos the other day, the point was made that if a suspension company can't tell you what weight load the suspension is made for, then it's not worth consideration, as a variable/heavy overland vehicle.

This makes me swing towards OME, who seems to have the most clear cut information on what weight loads are appropriate for various components.

With the Synergy springs being only 10-15% stiffer than stock, the point someone made about it being bouncy is definitely a concern of mine. My stock springs definitely bounce, even with the squatting going on.

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