SumoSprings for 4xe?

[robynE]

Hi,

I'm hearing that SumoSprings might be an easy upgrade to help with squat while towing.

Is this something that would work/help on a 4xe, or does it already come with some kind of upgraded suspension that would make Sumosprings really not necessary? I see it just has the stock "yellow" small bumpstops.

I don't have the camper yet, so I don't know how much squat I will even have, but I would want to get the springs installed before going to pick it up even.

Thanks

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[Terminex]

No.

i have sumosprings on my RV. They are elastomer units and would add significant stiffness to the rear.

you want airlift bags. They are inflatable to different pressure to help combat squat due to weight.

i had a set in my2019, and i have a set in my 2021, they work great as long as you do not try to do serious trails with them installed.

 

[Jeeperz Kreeperz]

@robynE I have both the Supersprings Sumo Springs in the rear, and the AirLift 1000 airbags for the rear. To echo what @Terminex said, you will likely want the AirLift Airbag 1000 if you are concerned about towing. Do some searching on the forum. I’ve done a detailed write-up on the correct Airlift kit, and even some installation tips.

It’s important to note that supersprings makes all different kinds of these products. Some of them are in contact on top and bottom, and working at all times, and others (like the sumo springs for the Wrangler JL) are only attached at the top, and are only “working” under very heavy loads or bottom-outs. They are just replacement bump stops that are longer, and made of a stiffer material, with a higher load rating. See pic below:

It would require the spring to push through much of its travel before the sumo springs would make contact, and have any effect.

The airbags, on the other hand, sit inside the rear coil springs, and are in constant contact with the top and bottom of the spring mount, as well as with the interior of the coil spring as it spirals all the way from top to bottom. I can dial in the pressure on the airbags with a bicycle pump and instantly stiffen the rear suspension. A real game-changer if you are camping with heavy loads, have a roof-top tent, and/or are towing.

I only have the sumo springs because I bought them second-hand, but unused for a price I couldn’t resist. But they don’t really help with squat or body roll. So I got the Airlift airbags shortly thereafter, and honestly, I doubt the sumo springs have ever “bumped” even once! But I suppose if I had an Airlift airbag failure the sumo spring bump stop would be a good backup

 

[robynE]

Great info! I will definitely take a look at the site bags. The tongue weight of camper dry is going to be just under 300. I'm a very minimalist solo camper so don't expect tongue weight to go much higher. I was hoping the sumos would be good enough to prevent too much squat but doesnt sound like they are going to do much. Thanks for the detailed replies.

 

[Terminex]

I cannot stress enough to buy a tongue scale. Eveyone gets the tongue weight wrong. Until you actually weigh it, you do not know how much tongue weight you have.

setting it up right from the beginning will make the experience MUCH better.

 

[GATORB8]

We’ve only towed a Rove Lite ~1800 LB camper (outdoorsy rental), but couple notes.

Headlight adjustment is super easy with a long screwdriver. Be worth a quick check so you don’t get flashed anytime you’re towing at night.

I ended up with an adjustible hitch to get a nice level trailer, the pump out was pretty low, so it helped clearance to get the tongue down level.

The Rove Lite has a pretty short tongue and a spare mounted on it, had to be cautious on turns backing in.

 

[robynE]

Absolultly agree! I bought one before I bought my last camper! Excellent advice that I always give as well.

 

[wittyjeepusername]

@robynE I have both the Supersprings Sumo Springs in the rear, and the AirLift 1000 airbags for the rear. To echo what @Terminex said, you will likely want the AirLift Airbag 1000 if you are concerned about towing. Do some searching on the forum. I’ve done a detailed write-up on the correct Airlift kit, and even some installation tips.

It’s important to note that supersprings makes all different kinds of these products. Some of them are in contact on top and bottom, and working at all times, and others (like the sumo springs for the Wrangler JL) are only attached at the top, and are only “working” under very heavy loads or bottom-outs. They are just replacement bump stops that are longer, and made of a stiffer material, with a higher load rating. See pic below:

It would require the spring to push through much of its travel before the sumo springs would make contact, and have any effect.

The airbags, on the other hand, sit inside the rear coil springs, and are in constant contact with the top and bottom of the spring mount, as well as with the interior of the coil spring as it spirals all the way from top to bottom. I can dial in the pressure on the airbags with a bicycle pump and instantly stiffen the rear suspension. A real game-changer if you are camping with heavy loads, have a roof-top tent, and/or are towing.

I only have the sumo springs because I bought them second-hand, but unused for a price I couldn’t resist. But they don’t really help with squat or body roll. So I got the Airlift airbags shortly thereafter, and honestly, I doubt the sumo springs have ever “bumped” even once! But I suppose if I had an Airlift airbag failure the sumo spring bump stop would be a good backup

I am interested in this topic as well, and would love to know if you have any data on whether the sumo spring is engaged under load (trailer hitched up) without inflating/using the airbag. I have about 320lbs of tongue weight on my expedition trailer and get somewhere between 1-2” of sag sitting static on stock suspension. My interest in the sumo spring is with regard to towing offroad. I can’t use an airlift on the trail going up moderate trails with a trailer in tow. It just won’t hold up and articulate well. My hope was that the sumo spring might engage a bit and provide SOME load support, and moreover a ride quality improvement under load, but I am not sure if the added height of the sumo spring is enough to engage it with only 2” of sag in the rear. Would love to hear if anyone has any experience with this and if I am on the right track with the sumo spring being a one stop shop to give SOME moderate results/improvement over just running stock when towing.

 

[wittyjeepusername]

I am interested in this topic as well, and would love to know if you have any data on whether the sumo spring is engaged under load (trailer hitched up) without inflating/using the airbag. I have about 320lbs of tongue weight on my expedition trailer and get somewhere between 1-2” of sag sitting static on stock suspension. My interest in the sumo spring is with regard to towing offroad. I can’t use an airlift on the trail going up moderate trails with a trailer in tow. It just won’t hold up and articulate well. My hope was that the sumo spring might engage a bit and provide SOME load support, and moreover a ride quality improvement under load, but I am not sure if the added height of the sumo spring is enough to engage it with only 2” of sag in the rear. Would love to hear if anyone has any experience with this and if I am on the right track with the sumo spring being a one stop shop to give SOME moderate results/improvement over just running stock when towing.

For anyone who is still interested in this thread I have a quick update. I ended up installing a different SumoSpring product than the upgraded bump-stop material mentioned in this thread. I installed the Coil SumoSpring (P/N: CSS-1168) which I have had installed for about a year now on stock Rubicon suspension (with 315-70R17 Milestar Patagonia M/T's for context). I must say, it was a bit of a Hail Mary looking for something simple to install, but I must say that I have been thoroughly pleased with this product. I was concerned initially with this product in that it is kind of always engaged, HOWEVER, it is a progressive "spring" / product and much to my surprise, that noticeably true. Directly after the install after the first test drive without towing, I felt the rear was MUCH more planted and under control. While one might be inclined to say it "stiffened" the ride, I would articulate my experience being that, because it didn't feel "stiffer" in the typical sense, it more just felt like there was more going on back there, more support, more controlled dampening/rebound from a spring (not shock) perspective. That was more of a side benefit though, as I purchased these primarily to improve ride quality qhile towing and help reduce sag. I also wanted something that I could beat the crap out of off road. These "Coil SumoSprings" have a lifetime warranty, so I figured I'd give it shot. It ended up being a REALLY good call. I've gone full flex (again, please note that its on stock suspension) and haven't had any issue with them over compressing (from what I can tell) or coming out of place at all (i didn't even zip tie them in place). It improved my stock (Rubicon) ride quality on AND off road AND accomplished a massive improvement in ride quality while towing/under a load. Here are the numbers (measuring ground to fender unloaded = no trailer weight or cargo weight added, loaded = approx 320lbs of tongue weight at the hitch):

Baseline Unloaded:
Passenger Unloaded Height: 39-7/8"
Driver Unloaded Height: 39-7/8"

Stock Loaded:
Passenger Loaded Height: 38-1/8"
Driver Loaded Height: 38-5/8"
Stock Sag: (39.875 - 38.125) = 1.75" of sag

With Coil SumoSpring Suspension Enhancement:
Stock unloaded height did not change.
Passenger Loaded: 38-7/8"
Driver Loaded" 38-7/8"
Sag w/ Enhancement Installed: (39.875 - 38.875) = 1"

Final Comparison:
Difference in sag from stock to enhanced: (1.75" - 1") = 3/4" which translates to about 43%

Now... fast forward to today. I just purchased a Mopar lift kit 'cause they are priced pretty well at the moment. I also purchased front and rear Lynx track bars (Quadratec). I am now again back in the position of investigating whether to get another coil sumospring, or try this bumpstop sumo spring.

I did some measurements on stock to see what the outcome might be in the event I did decide to go with the bump stop SumoSpring. I measure the distance between the stock bumpstop and the axle. I came up with about 3.5, maybe 3.75 inches of up travel from static/stock height. I also measured the length of the stock foam bumpstop which was approx. 2 inches. I haven't got an exact measure on the length of the SumoSpring itself recently, but want to say I remember being told it was about 4 inches long.

So, as it pertains to load assistance and improved ride quality with towing, the jury is still out, but here's how i figure the numbers pan out.

Using the smaller number, 3.5 inches measured at the passenger rear. You can figure that if you install a SumoSpring bumpstop that you will need 1.5 inches of uptravel before beginning to engage the SumoSpring bumpstop. So for me, prior to any aid's i was getting about 1.75 inches of sag. And again this was based on stock suspension, so this might not apply for the new lift, but for the sake of exploration it might be safe to assume I'd be getting next to nothing with regard to sag aid from the bump stop SumoSpring, BUT, I would be engaging it for sure and I believe the ride improvement WOULD be very significant for towing. Certainly when hitting bumps. I believe it would at a minimum give a more planted feel and handle bumps with more control and a better rebound feel with this addition. It also would not affect standard on road daily driving. While my Coil SumoSpring enhancement improved my stock ride quality, I am not certain that would necessarily be the case for every application, though it might be safe to assume so. Additionally, if you hit bump stop regularly in standard driving without towing or worry about rubbing, this is rumored to be a massive improvement to that end too. All this to say... I am back to considering the bumpstop again, because I am going to install this lift which will have new springs and provide new measurements sotck and under load. My goal is less about reducing sag, and more about improved control, handling, and ride quality while towing and not adversely affecting daily driving ride or offroad capability. That is to say, I don't want to fix anything that isn't broken with this new lift kit by installing another Coil SumoSpring right away, but will circle back here with the outcome after the lift is installed and what I install in the rear as a suspension enhancement, if anything, to help with towing.

Side note. My pops has a stock Gladiator Rubicon and installed the Coil SumpSpring (the one that sits in between the coils of the spring, the non-bump-stop product) and he had a similar experience as I did. Improved ride quality for daily driving AND while towing.

https://www.superspringsinternational.com/coil-sumosprings/#find-your-coil

Hope this was helpful to somebody. Thought I'd share what I came up with and the win that I've experienced for the last year and keep the conversation going if there are any others that have interest or experience with these types of products/applications. Cheers!

 

[GrayWolf.Overland]

4xe Rubicon tow rating is 3500 - they almost want you not to tow anything :D

 

[wittyjeepusername]

4xe Rubicon tow rating is 3500 - they almost want you not to tow anything :D

2024's have a beefier rear axle, they'll tow 5,000lbs now

 

[GrayWolf.Overland]

2024's have a beefier rear axle, they'll tow 5,000lbs now

Ah good to know. I have a 2024 with full float rears but I dont tow anything so I was unaware this changed. Wonder if they bumped up payload too?

 

[wittyjeepusername]

Ah good to know. I have a 2024 with full float rears but I dont tow anything so I was unaware this changed. Wonder if they bumped up payload too?

Xtreme 35-inch Tire Package (AKA Xtreme Recon) gets you 6,250 GVRW which would in fact be a significant increase in payload cap. Standard GVWR on 2024 is GVW Rating - 5,975 Pounds, 2018-2023 is something like 5250 I think. So, yea, you've got extra payload I think. Can't confirm curb weight difference without a monroney, but i'd say you still got at somewhere between 200-400lbs of extra payload ;-) in the 2024 with the full float 44's over previous gen.

 

[PatriotX]

Xtreme 35-inch Tire Package (AKA Xtreme Recon) gets you 6,250 GVRW which would in fact be a significant increase in payload cap. Standard GVWR on 2024 is GVW Rating - 5,975 Pounds, 2018-2023 is something like 5250 I think. So, yea, you've got extra payload I think. Can't confirm curb weight difference without a monroney, but i'd say you still got at somewhere between 200-400lbs of extra payload ;-) in the 2024 with the full float 44's over previous gen.

GVWR on the 2024 4xe is listed at 6450lb

Same 3500lb towing rating.

 

[wittyjeepusername]

GVWR on the 2024 4xe is listed at 6450lb

Same 3500lb towing rating.

Good point! I was referring non 4xe. 4xe is a much heavier vehicle overall. Could be something to do with that, and that a big portion of the weight sits low toward the middle rear of the vehicle. Adding more weight the rear half of the vehicle could pose a problem for safety. I just realized @GrayWolf.Overland was referring to a 4xe. My bad!

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