STOP ORDER on all Manual Jeeps [Update: software flash fix arrives in March]

[JimmyZ]

You're correct. I did misunderstand his response. Reading too fast and, frankly, hoping for some good news on the software timing as I'm waiting on the stop sale order to be lifted to buy my first Jeep. Thanks for the clarification

Right there with you on hoping for good news. I'm included in the stop sale, so I empathize with you. Good luck man. My mom always said good things come to those who wait.

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[Rubiconchris]

My mom ordered a manual Rubicon on December 05, it was slated to ship on Thursday 02/18. I presume this means they will be holding the order at the factory until this is resolved?

My manual transmission 2 door rubi was supposed to ship yesterday as well. Maybe they're keeping each other company in the storage lot!

 

[JimmyZ]

My manual transmission 2 door rubi was supposed to ship yesterday as well. Maybe they're keeping each other company in the storage lot!

Probably having a three some with mine

 

[OldGuyNewJeep]

My manual transmission 2 door rubi was supposed to ship yesterday as well. Maybe they're keeping each other company in the storage lot!

It’ll be worth the wait. I ordered my 2018 2dr manual and had to wait 6 months for it. I got one of the first off the line, and it’s been rock solid and a blast to drive. My clutch feels perfect and always has.

The worst thing I can complain about is the godawful ESS design. That AUX battery is a reliability killer. Tazer plus N1/N2 bypass and a battery switch cured that, though.

 

[Cutterone]

As a means of atonement for being responsible for derailing the thread, I'll try and steer it back a bit by addressing this.

The quick and direct answer to your question is, at this time, neither.

These are the two (previously) offered Centerforce clutches for the JL. However both are currently off the market and Centerforce has made a statement that they are revising the products and should have an updated line in March. I've no idea if they'll keep the same part numbers as before, but I assume they will:

KCFT157077: This is their "Centerforce II" clutch assembly, has a single organic disc, and is rated to hold a maximum of 434ft. lbs. of torque.

KDF157077: This is their "dual friction" clutch assembly, has a single organic/carbon disc, and is rated to hold a maximum of 494ft. lbs. of torque.

The difference between the two is the composite material (and arrangement) on the facings of the clutch disc. The "organic" clutch face material is the softest material generally offered meaning it allows for the smoothest engagement, is more resistant to slippage wear, but doesn't carry the holding power of the stiffer facing materials. There are several other materials you'll see clutch discs being made of: ceramic, feramic, kevlar, carbon, and blends of all of these. Each of these other types of material, to varying degrees, increase holding power of the clutch but at the sacrifice of engagement slippage and "grabbiness."

Typically with single disc clutches, when you see a blend, there will be one material on one side of the disc and a different material on the other. However it looks like Centerforce has taken a different approach to this with their dual friction disc and also changed the arrangement. From what I've been able to read, it looks like one side of the disc is 360deg organic coverage whereas the other side of the disc is a slotted arrangement of both organic and carbon facings. I suspect they did this as a way of minimizing the grabbiness of the harder carbon material while still increasing the holding power of a fully organic faced disc.

That said, if Centerforce releases revised versions of these same clutches, which one is best for you depends on your needs. Do you have plans for forced induction, a V8 swap, or other major power additions? Do you do a bunch of high rev clutch dumps (such as harsher rock crawling or drag racing)? If so, the dual friction will likely hold up for longer for you. If you are more interested in a smooth daily driver on your mostly stock Jeep with the smoothest engagement and most slippage without overtly wearing the clutch, the Centerforce II would probably be your best bet.

Honestly, I think the Centerforce II clutch is probably the best bet for nearly everyone with a JL Jeep that ISN'T planning a V8 swap or is sitting on one-ton axles and 40's doing high rev clutch dumps in Moab. The stock platform is only putting out 260ft. lbs. of torque to the clutch, so the 434ft. lbs. rating of the organic clutch face is more than adequate. Even with forced induction, which typically (depending on the kit) yields ~35% increase in hp/tq, would only increase the output of the Pentastar to ~350ft. lbs. I'm frankly not entirely sure why Centerforce even bothered developing a dual friction clutch for the JL.

Thanks very informative, I was always a bit perplexed when I read our clutches are not rated at I think 272 ft/lbs, a measly 12 ft/lbs leeway from the 260 ft/lbs of the pentastar. Seems a bit too close a shave for my liking...also hence another reason why that clutch can’t be paired with the 295 ft/lbs from the 2T

 

[Rubiconchris]

It’ll be worth the wait. I ordered my 2018 2dr manual and had to wait 6 months for it. I got one of the first off the line, and it’s been rock solid and a blast to drive. My clutch feels perfect and always has.

The worst thing I can complain about is the godawful ESS design. That AUX battery is a reliability killer. Tazer plus N1/N2 bypass and a battery switch cured that, though.

I'm stuck with my 18 rubi til it shows up.

 

[RomeroAG001]

I ordered a manual 2 door that is built and now sitting in a lot in Ohio somewhere. After much thought I worked with my dealer to transfer my deposit to a new build that is exactly the same but with a auto transmission. I don’t mind starting the waiting process again if it means I get a reliable, non-spontaneous combusting vehicle. Mind you I really wanted a manual but here is my thought process:

This transmission appears to have a rare but catastrophic failure mode. In every other properly designed transmission, if you slip the clutch to an extreme you burn out the clutch before further structural damage takes place and are faced with a $2K repair bill. Sucks but that is on you. In this case if you slip the clutch, the system could break apart, literally turning into a grenade, destroying the transmission case and starting a fire as well as blowing out metal debris on the road that can cause a secondary accident behind you. What has been Jeep’s response to this threat? Recall W12 were they add shielding so that if/when your clutch becomes a grenade, the explosive fragments wont cause a secondary fire. Recall L01 where your engine goes into limp mode to prevent your clutch from becoming a grenade. Both of these are band-aids. Why would I buy a new truck to have a bunch of systems working around a under-engineered clutch when my current 11 year old truck has a clutch of the non-exploding variety? Until Jeep addresses the root of the problem, this in my opinion all wishful thinking and a fool’s errand. Eventually the authorities or lawyers will force Jeep to address this defective hardware and all these jeeps will be sitting at dealerships for months waiting on parts (as happened with W12). Either that or you bite the bullet and pay $3K to put an aftermarket clutch in a brand new vehicle. This is 1.5K more than the upcharge for an auto tranny. I like throwing my own gears as much as the next guy but not at the expense of being FCA’s sucker.

 

[LatteSipper]

...Either that or you bite the bullet and pay $3K to put an aftermarket clutch in a brand new vehicle. This is 1.5K more than the upcharge for an auto tranny. I like throwing my own gears as much as the next guy but not at the expense of being FCA’s sucker.

Actually same cost, V6 auto is $3k more than V6 manual.

My JLU is built and in factory storage awaiting this fix. I considered going a similar path of walking away and switching to an auto, but enjoy shifting gears myself and with working from home reducing the amount I drive, I sold my second car that was a manual sports car...the JLU for me is the do it all vehicle now, so I’ll take my chances.

 

[COBill]

This is 1.5K more than the upcharge for an auto tranny. I like throwing my own gears as much as the next guy but not at the expense of being FCA’s sucker.

But to me you're then stuck with a soulless, completely boring to drive vehicle.

I need a manual transmission to enjoy driving, no matter the downsides.

If it hasn't an auto it might as well just be a self-driving vehicle.

I've mentioned before, I've never owned a vehicle with an automatic, and never intend to even if it means I will need to buy used for the rest of my life.

 

[angrynewyorker]

Actually same cost, V6 auto is $3k more than V6 manual.

My JLU is built and in factory storage awaiting this fix. I considered going a similar path of walking away and switching to an auto, but enjoy shifting gears myself and with working from home reducing the amount I drive, I sold my second car that was a manual sports car...the JLU for me is the do it all vehicle now, so I’ll take my chances.

There are no chances to take. Your manual transmission will be just fine. I had a 2019 2 door Rubicon with a manual and it was just fine. I am waiting for my 2021 Rubicon with a manual to be delivered after the “fix” and it will be just fine as well.

 

[WilhelmSR]

@JeepCares

• Does the factory have the fix yet or is mid-March just an estimate on when the software will be built/completed?
• If so do you know when they will start installing the updates?
• If not, is there any ETA?
• Any idea on when the shipping date will resume on Jeeps that have been built will start shipping out?

I know you may not know or have the access to this information but figured I would ask.

 

[2 door rubi]

I received my 2021 2 door rubicon on the 28th of December 2020. 6 cylinder with ESS, Manual (oveously). Granted it only has 500 miles on it, it seems to be doing good. It is quick. I'm really thinking the fire thing has fo do with clutch riding, more than a defective part or electronics issue.
I would think after 80 years, jeep would have the clutch figured out more than most other companies.
I was told by my dealership that if my vehicle had a recall, I would receive a letter in the mail from FCA/Jeep. Haven't received anything yet. 02/21/21

 

[BroncoHound]

I received my 2021 2 door rubicon on the 28th of December 2020. 6 cylinder with ESS, Manual (oveously). Granted it only has 500 miles on it, it seems to be doing good. It is quick. I'm really thinking the fire thing has fo do with clutch riding, more than a defective part or electronics issue.
I would think after 80 years, jeep would have the clutch figured out more than most other companies.
I was told by my dealership that if my vehicle had a recall, I would receive a letter in the mail from FCA/Jeep. Haven't received anything yet. 02/21/21

You can plug your VIN into this website and see any open recalls that are currently associated with your vehicle:

https://www.mopar.com/en-us/my-vehicle/recalls/search.html

The by-mail sheets that go out about recalls are historically quite slow to get to the end user. Usually I don't see the little card in the mail until 2-3 months after I've already had a recall addressed.

 

[OldGuyNewJeep]

You can plug your VIN into this website and see any open recalls that are currently associated with your vehicle:

https://www.mopar.com/en-us/my-vehicle/recalls/search.html

The by-mail sheets that go out about recalls are historically quite slow to get to the end user. Usually I don't see the little card in the mail until 2-3 months after I've already had a recall addressed.

Or install the phone app, which already shows this recall.

 

[7th District]

Or install the phone app, which already shows this recall.

That’s what I did

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