STOP ORDER on all Manual Jeeps [Update: software flash fix arrives in March]

[MaineBumpkin]

Well, this totally sucks! @JimmyZ , did you order a stick too? I think we will cancel our order and find something on a lot somewhere.

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[JimmyZ]

Well, this totally sucks! @JimmyZ , did you order a stick too? I think we will cancel our order and find something on a lot somewhere.

Yes. I'm in it for the long haul. I'd never get an automatic

 

[nyvisual]

Yes. I'm in it for the long haul. I'd never get an automatic

My wife is the same way, it’s either manual or nothing...

 

[sk00pie]

Ugh I was set on manual, not 50/50. It's going to be delayed, but how much is the question.

 

[cgagnon99]

Well, this totally sucks! @JimmyZ , did you order a stick too? I think we will cancel our order and find something on a lot somewhere.

Keep in mind, if you're trying to find a manual on a lot it's going to be the same issue since they can't sell a vehicle with an open recall

 

[jeepoch]

...
Also, your leap to explain the 6MT desires with ego is a stretch. Some of us just find it more fun and engaging. Besides, what's more engaging that trying to escape a burning vehicle?

Sean,

You are entirely correct. What I was trying to convey is that there will be those that'll never drive an automatic under any condition whatsoever. Call that ego, stubbornness, whatever. I get that. Hell I was in that camp myself until this JL.

I have zero stock in any FCA or ZF8 products. I am about as biased toward manual transmissions as any true gearhead could be. However, after driving this ZF8 automatic I really do have to give credit to FCA for getting something right.

Sure there will be ZF8 units that fail for various reasons but I can only speak for my experience. My transmission has really changed my driving experience. Prior to my JL Sport, which candidly I only purchased because of a once-in-a-lifetime deal (read my earlier post #14 within this same thread above). I too would have never considered anything but the MT6.

However after putting some serious on and off-road mileage on this thing, the more I do really appreciated it's execution. If you want the total convenience of an auto, it's there. If you want to manually shift through all 8 gears, you can do so. If you want near instantaneous gear selection the ZF8 shines. In 4wd, never (and I mean never), have I ever found myself wanting or even wishing to ride the clutch.

The experience with this trans had really opened my perspective on needing a third clutch pedal at all. Do I miss it? Sure sometimes. But I'm finding I'm more focused on the end result. Getting to the desired gear in any condition is the goal, not necessarily the bodily actions required in getting it there.

With AutoStick I can easily select my desired gear with a down or up shift of the lever. What's nice is that the ZF8 just does it. Clutching and changing gears smoother and quicker than I ever could. Certainly in the realm of milliseconds. When navigating difficult obstacles, looking for the most traction in any condition, the ZF8 just gives me near instantaneous gear selection response.

Perhaps ego may be the correct description if you believe you can out perform the ZF8 for a change of gear in any condition. Perhaps maybe for arguments sake in full automatic 'Drive'. But in manual mode, you basically only have to think about when (just like with the MT6), the ZF8 nearly instantaneously just does it.

You're now immediately applying torque to the situation rather than clutching, gliding and potentially losing momentum. Even for the second or so to push and release the clutch. Now difficult, even severe obstacles are a lot less challenging, especially without lockers, because I am in full control of the torque delivered within any condition. Selecting the most appropriate gear and getting it there near instantaneously is truly awesome.

I've really had a change of heart with this transmission. Almost to the point of not wanting to go back.

Plus my wife is loving the fact that she too can now Jeep. She absolutely despises a manual, always has. I suppose that's one true downside, I now have to share my JL... Happy wife, happy life.

Go rent a JL. I'm certain that almost all rentals will have the ZF8. If you truly have an open-minded character trait, you'll get a better feel for just how way cool driving a Jeep can be without losing any type-A sort of personality control. The only thing lost is the clutch pedal.

Trust me, you'll have an entirely different perspective.

Or ignore me. I could care less. I'm sharing a little of my Jeeping enjoyment. Keep on waiting, complaining, hoping, wishing, praying and making excuses for the MT6. Maybe (just maybe) in another couple of model years they may eventually straighten this mess out. Until then, it's only going to be a big klugde. Keep that fire extinguisher handy. That ultimately is the best advice anyone can give.

Jay

 

[SecretChimp]

My guess is that the manuals on the production line will ship weeks before March 19th. The March 19th date sounds like the nationwide roll out of a large recall program which I imagine takes a lot of logistics, communication, and dealer enablement. And that level of coordination takes time to plan, review, and schedule. Assuming it’s still just a software fix, I think the assembly line will be resolved much faster and perhaps already has. Perhaps the recently built manuals just need to wait for something like a formal test/analysis of the fix.

just my thoughts on why the March 19th date may not apply to those of us who ordered.

 

[sk00pie]

My guess is that the manuals on the production line will ship weeks before March 19th. The March 19th date sounds like the nationwide roll out of a large recall program which I imagine takes a lot of logistics, communication, and dealer enablement. And that level of coordination takes time to plan, review, and schedule. Assuming it’s still just a software fix, I think the assembly line will be resolved much faster and perhaps already has. Perhaps the recently built manuals just need to wait for something like a formal test/analysis of the fix.

just my thoughts on why the March 19th date may not apply to those of us who ordered.

Screw you, you made me change my mind back to manual!

 

[Rodeoflyer]

When you're on your second auto trans rebuild at 170k at $5000 a pop and I'm still on the factory manual Aisin built trans with a centerforce or south bend (or whatever Jeep finally decides to replace it with) clutch replacement at 1/2 the cost we can start a new thread...

 

[Spaffy]

Sean,

You are entirely correct. What I was trying to convey is that there will be those that'll never drive an automatic under any condition whatsoever. Call that ego, stubbornness, whatever. I get that. Hell I was in that camp myself until this JL.

I have zero stock in any FCA or ZF8 products. I am about as biased toward manual transmissions as any true gearhead could be. However, after driving this ZF8 automatic I really do have to give credit to FCA for getting something right.

Sure there will be ZF8 units that fail for various reasons but I can only speak for my experience. My transmission has really changed my driving experience. Prior to my JL Sport, which candidly I only purchased because of a once-in-a-lifetime deal (read my earlier post #14 within this same thread above). I too would have never considered anything but the MT6.

However after putting some serious on and off-road mileage on this thing, the more I do really appreciated it's execution. If you want the total convenience of an auto, it's there. If you want to manually shift through all 8 gears, you can do so. If you want near instantaneous gear selection the ZF8 shines. In 4wd, never (and I mean never), have I ever found myself wanting or even wishing to ride the clutch.

The experience with this trans had really opened my perspective on needing a third clutch pedal at all. Do I miss it? Sure sometimes. But I'm finding I'm more focused on the end result. Getting to the desired gear in any condition is the goal, not necessarily the bodily actions required in getting it there.

With AutoStick I can easily select my desired gear with a down or up shift of the lever. What's nice is that the ZF8 just does it. Clutching and changing gears smoother and quicker than I ever could. Certainly in the realm of milliseconds. When navigating difficult obstacles, looking for the most traction in any condition, the ZF8 just gives me near instantaneous gear selection response.

Perhaps ego may be the correct description if you believe you can out perform the ZF8 for a change of gear in any condition. Perhaps maybe for arguments sake in full automatic 'Drive'. But in manual mode, you basically only have to think about when (just like with the MT6), the ZF8 nearly instantaneously just does it.

You're now immediately applying torque to the situation rather than clutching, gliding and potentially losing momentum. Even for the second or so to push and release the clutch. Now difficult, even severe obstacles are a lot less challenging, especially without lockers, because I am in full control of the torque delivered within any condition. Selecting the most appropriate gear and getting it there near instantaneously is truly awesome.

I've really had a change of heart with this transmission. Almost to the point of not wanting to go back.

Plus my wife is loving the fact that she too can now Jeep. She absolutely despises a manual, always has. I suppose that's one true downside, I now have to share my JL... Happy wife, happy life.

Go rent a JL. I'm certain that almost all rentals will have the ZF8. If you truly have an open-minded character trait, you'll get a better feel for just how way cool driving a Jeep can be without losing any type-A sort of personality control. The only thing lost is the clutch pedal.

Trust me, you'll have an entirely different perspective.

Or ignore me. I could care less. I'm sharing a little of my Jeeping enjoyment. Keep on waiting, complaining, hoping, wishing, praying and making excuses for the MT6. Maybe (just maybe) in another couple of model years they may eventually straighten this mess out. Until then, it's only going to be a big klugde. Keep that fire extinguisher handy. That ultimately is the best advice anyone can give.

Jay

I think most people buying the manual transmission now understand that the 8 speed is a great transmission overall. Jeep probably sells automatics 20 to 1. Modern automatics have improved substantially over the years. There will be a time when the manual is gone from new vehicles.

Can the 8 speed shift better than I can? I bet it can. I want shifting my own gears; with a clutch, to be part of my Jeeping experience. I'll give up shift speed, ease of operation, etc, for that experience.

The best way I can describe it is; it just makes me happy.

I'm happy that you love the 8 speed, I truly am. I think its a good fit for a lot of people. However, in reading some of your posts you almost seem condescending to the manual transmission guys with some of the descriptive words you choose to use. Im a little miffed as to why you feel the need to come into a manual transmission thread and try to hard sell the automatic and say over and over again how great it is....

I would never purpose to tell you what should make you happy and I hope you're not trying to tell me that manual Jeep transmission should not make me happy.....

Happy Jeeping!

 

[MaineBumpkin]

There's a few comments on this thread I've seen, so I will try to answer them in one post:
1) There is a recall, we are still building but vehicles will have the recall repaired prior to delivery.
2) The fix is a software update, which is expected in March. The inspection that someone mentioned is related to a different recall that was released last year, W12.
3) The fix doesn't affect engine performance under normal circumstances or towing.

There are some other threads out there that discuss this same topic as well.

Kaitlin
Jeep Cares

Thanks Kaitlin. So you are saying my manual which was built 10 days ago will likely sit until some (not determined) date in March before it’s shipped? I thought this clutch issue only impacted units built before mid-January?

 

[jeepoch]

@Spaffy,

Art, your point is well taken. Didn't intend to be condescending but re-reading my post I can understand that perspective.

My intent was to present my willingness to accept the ZF8 as a good powertrain worthy of some accolade. I gave my reasons why I like it. Maybe too much of a sell job. Just trying to give others on the fence a good reason that there is an option to acquire a new JL other than coping with all this FCA-MT6 chaos.

However and in my defense, just read a few posts nearby. At no point under any circumstances will some even consider driving the ZF8 period, let alone even think about it. Safety or performance be damned. There is fortunately still the possibility of getting into a JL reasonably quickly, if the wait for a manual is just too untenable.

However you do make a very compelling argument, that happiness at driving a stick for some means more than any automation no matter how well it's implemented.

The joy of Jeeping is and will always be seen through the eye of it's driver.

Happy Jeeping.

Jay

 

[JohnAinVA]

My guess is that the manuals on the production line will ship weeks before March 19th. The March 19th date sounds like the nationwide roll out of a large recall program which I imagine takes a lot of logistics, communication, and dealer enablement. And that level of coordination takes time to plan, review, and schedule. Assuming it’s still just a software fix, I think the assembly line will be resolved much faster and perhaps already has. Perhaps the recently built manuals just need to wait for something like a formal test/analysis of the fix.

just my thoughts on why the March 19th date may not apply to those of us who ordered.

Thank you for something positive -- I'm depressed about ordering a MT, I was so excited when I ordered it!

 

[cgagnon99]

Thanks Kaitlin. So you are saying my manual which was built 10 days ago will likely sit until some (not determined) date in March before it’s shipped? I thought this clutch issue only impacted units built before mid-January?

I'm not Kaitlin, buts that what it seems. The January 22nd date is when they stopped shipping manuals from the factory. Mine is sitting there with yours and I was told not from JeepCares not expect delivery until March at the earliest.

For reference mine was built after 1/22 as well.

 

[JohnAinVA]

I am bummed - I feel like a made a big mistake ordering a Wrangler. My friends kept telling me to buy a Taco and not to buy an American made vehicle. Looks like I'll be waiting 8 or 9 weeks for a Jeep. I can't afford to lose $1K deposit, so I'm just stuck. Sucks.

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