angrynewyorker

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On the b
Yeah I hope so too. As a once-software developer (not for cars) myself, I would think they need to write the software but then they need to test it pretty thoroughly, and if it doesn't work out they'll need to tweak and re-test until they're satisfied it works when they want and not when they don't. Totally speculating. But human nature is to be optimistic that the first try is going to work, so I wouldn't be surprised if this took longer. Then again maybe they padded for that and it'll be quicker! But my money's on longer.
i would think if they announced the fix is a software update, then they already have it figured out from testing it. Now they just have to roll it out, which is why they gave a middle of March date. .
 

jeepdabest

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Sean,

You are entirely correct. What I was trying to convey is that there will be those that'll never drive an automatic under any condition whatsoever. Call that ego, stubbornness, whatever. I get that. Hell I was in that camp myself until this JL.

I have zero stock in any FCA or ZF8 products. I am about as biased toward manual transmissions as any true gearhead could be. However, after driving this ZF8 automatic I really do have to give credit to FCA for getting something right.

Sure there will be ZF8 units that fail for various reasons but I can only speak for my experience. My transmission has really changed my driving experience. Prior to my JL Sport, which candidly I only purchased because of a once-in-a-lifetime deal (read my earlier post #14 within this same thread above). I too would have never considered anything but the MT6.

However after putting some serious on and off-road mileage on this thing, the more I do really appreciated it's execution. If you want the total convenience of an auto, it's there. If you want to manually shift through all 8 gears, you can do so. If you want near instantaneous gear selection the ZF8 shines. In 4wd, never (and I mean never), have I ever found myself wanting or even wishing to ride the clutch.

The experience with this trans had really opened my perspective on needing a third clutch pedal at all. Do I miss it? Sure sometimes. But I'm finding I'm more focused on the end result. Getting to the desired gear in any condition is the goal, not necessarily the bodily actions required in getting it there.

With AutoStick I can easily select my desired gear with a down or up shift of the lever. What's nice is that the ZF8 just does it. Clutching and changing gears smoother and quicker than I ever could. Certainly in the realm of milliseconds. When navigating difficult obstacles, looking for the most traction in any condition, the ZF8 just gives me near instantaneous gear selection response.

Perhaps ego may be the correct description if you believe you can out perform the ZF8 for a change of gear in any condition. Perhaps maybe for arguments sake in full automatic 'Drive'. But in manual mode, you basically only have to think about when (just like with the MT6), the ZF8 nearly instantaneously just does it.

You're now immediately applying torque to the situation rather than clutching, gliding and potentially losing momentum. Even for the second or so to push and release the clutch. Now difficult, even severe obstacles are a lot less challenging, especially without lockers, because I am in full control of the torque delivered within any condition. Selecting the most appropriate gear and getting it there near instantaneously is truly awesome.

I've really had a change of heart with this transmission. Almost to the point of not wanting to go back.

Plus my wife is loving the fact that she too can now Jeep. She absolutely despises a manual, always has. I suppose that's one true downside, I now have to share my JL... Happy wife, happy life.

Go rent a JL. I'm certain that almost all rentals will have the ZF8. If you truly have an open-minded character trait, you'll get a better feel for just how way cool driving a Jeep can be without losing any type-A sort of personality control. The only thing lost is the clutch pedal.

Trust me, you'll have an entirely different perspective.

Or ignore me. I could care less. I'm sharing a little of my Jeeping enjoyment. Keep on waiting, complaining, hoping, wishing, praying and making excuses for the MT6. Maybe (just maybe) in another couple of model years they may eventually straighten this mess out. Until then, it's only going to be a big klugde. Keep that fire extinguisher handy. That ultimately is the best advice anyone can give.

Jay
I've driven the automatic JL. That's why I have a manual. I found it boring like all other automatics. It has nothing to do with ANY personality trait. But, I did get a giggle out of the psychoanalysis.
 

Kreepin1

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their is no software fix that will fix a defective manual clutch
But software can compensate for operator error and also act as a safety net if the clutch should start to fail. I don't see this as any different than the early days of antilock brakes or traction control.

That said, I am actively considering abandoning my order and buying something else. But not a Bronco (yet).
 

MaineBumpkin

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their is no software fix that will fix a defective manual clutch
Software update reduces torque when it senses the clutch assembly getting hot. Let’s see how that impacts performance.
 

01tj

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Is it fun to drive? I learned to drive on a 1977 stick shift ford Pinto wagon, and I loved it. Then I had a manual BMW 3-series in the bachelor days and loved it. I just really liked the manual experience - I imagine the jeep will be somewhere in between in terms of ease-of-use. I don't want to be fighting it all the time but obviously I'm ready for a little Ab workout here in the hills. Help me out dude, I'm right on the fence!! (see my earlier whining post about the 5 month wait) Should I wait it out???
It's probably the best manual I've had and I had a 330i with the sport package, an A4 and quite a few others. It does take some time to get used to it but It shifts smooth, the 6cyl sounds pretty good.
 

Rubiconchris

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I've driven the automatic JL. That's why I have a manual. I found it boring like all other automatics. It has nothing to do with ANY personality trait. But, I did get a giggle out of the psychoanalysis.
I've been driving my auto for almost 3 years and haven't been bored driving it once. Sucks my 6 speed I ordered isn't coming. It was due to ship friday.

20201024_091547.jpg
 

Krondor

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Love my little 2 door manual.

This neutering recall makes me sad and a bit angry to be honest.
 
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nyvisual

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Was thinking the same thing! This thread is prime example of first world problems. Wah, I have to wait an extra 2 weeks for my custom order $50k dream car. FYI I'm the one saying that. At this point decided going to just place my order and wait the extra couple weeks or so.
First world problems, but we are living in the first world.
 
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nyvisual

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But software can compensate for operator error and also act as a safety net if the clutch should start to fail. I don't see this as any different than the early days of antilock brakes or traction control.

That said, I am actively considering abandoning my order and buying something else. But not a Bronco (yet).
Well unless you’re getting a Bronco Sport, you’re not getting in a Bronco until late 2022
 

Bocephus

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I’m in a unique spot.

Have a 2018 JLUR, 6 speed, nicely modded, and...and a magnuson super charger with the magnuson tune (as required.). It cannot run on the Jeep tune.

Have only had my Jeep to the dealership once since the blower was added, to diagnose / fix an issue related to my aux switch panel. I took special care to tell my advisor that the PCM must not be touched. A warning on the module port itself from Magnuson, and I printed signs and placed in a couple obvious spots. No problem, PCM was not touched.

I don’t think I can accept any Jeep PCM update whatsoever. My fix will have to be an aftermarket clutch, and I’m in touch with both centerforce and southbend awaiting their products - both are following this issue and bringing JL clutches to market, both at least a few months out. I doubt anything will emerge til summer...would be nice if sooner.

My question - if my Jeep ever sees a dealership again...is it going to be held hostage? Is it possible that Jeep could / would dismiss the recall for me on the basis of having an aftermarket clutch?

At this point, I don’t have much need for the dealership, but several gremlins over the years (radio / head unit issues, the steering tsb for example) cause me to think I may at some point NEED a dealership...even if all maintenance and build work is done outside the dealership. Do I need to cease all diplomatic relations with the dealership for fear of a hostage situation ?
 

JohnT

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The ZF8 is a great transmission, but there seems to be something unique or uncommon to the implementation in the Wrangler as there are *plenty* of threads, including very recently, on this forum with AT failures and months+ long waits on parts.

I think we've had maybe 2 users here with an actual clutch failure on the manual and I don't recall seeing a single manual transmission failure? Yes, the recalls are annoying....

Also, your leap to explain the 6MT desires with ego is a stretch. Some of us just find it more fun and engaging. Besides, what's more engaging that trying to escape a burning vehicle? ;)
yup... I will stick with a manual any day...
 

dave_p

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First world problems, but we are living in the first world.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm paying first world money for this jeep, so I'd kind of like them to be able to deliver one within three months of when they said they would.
 
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nyvisual

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Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm paying first world money for this jeep, so I'd kind of like them to be able to deliver one within three months of when they said they would.
You and me both. Mine is waiting for pickup the dealership 😡
 

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