sk00pie

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Paul,

Very seldom are stop ship orders ever performed on software issues, not impossible but very rare. This is likely due to something way more serious. My hunch (but just a pessimistic guess) is that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has likely uncovered something even deeper involving FCA's Manual Transmission design or implementation, possibly stemming from all the clutch related vehicle fires.

Stop-ship orders are not trivial. Depending on their nature, Executive VPs and even CEOs will likely get fired over them.

I wouldn't count on a software fix in this case.

But, take my input with a grain of salt. I really don't know any of the underlying details. But I have read many of the clutch recall stories. It's totally up to you to put two and two together.

I know nothing and can most likely certainly prove it...

Jay
Thanks Jay. I was just saying software fix based on a few posts I've read but know almost nothing myself. Also are we sure there is a stop-ship order? My dealer says that isn't the case. I know there is a recall, but is there not yet a solution?





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JohnAinVA

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Paul,

Very seldom are stop ship orders ever performed on software issues, not impossible but very rare. This is likely due to something way more serious. My hunch (but just a pessimistic guess) is that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has likely uncovered something even deeper involving FCA's Manual Transmission design or implementation, possibly stemming from all the clutch related vehicle fires.

Stop-ship orders are not trivial. Depending on their nature, Executive VPs and even CEOs will likely get fired over them.

I wouldn't count on a software fix in this case.

But, take my input with a grain of salt. I really don't know any of the underlying details. But I have read many of the clutch recall stories. It's totally up to you to put two and two together.

I know nothing and can most likely certainly prove it...

Jay
Great.....now I'm depressed. My deposit is non-fundable.....
 

sk00pie

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Great.....now I'm depressed. My deposit is non-fundable.....
If you look at the official press release and articles on car and driver, consumer reports, etc., they ALL state this is a software fix that will be available by March 19th. Unless all these articles are wrong, seems like just a software update?
 

JohnAinVA

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If you look at the official press release and articles on car and driver, consumer reports, etc., they ALL state this is a software fix that will be available by March 19th. Unless all these articles are wrong, seems like just a software update?
Thanks -- I mean, that's the way I'm reading it as well. Plus, I would hope my dealer would give me a heads up if it was a domesday scenario...

On the positive side, IF we ever do get our manual Jeeps, they'll probably be in high demand if/when we sell ours :)
 

sk00pie

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Thanks -- I mean, that's the way I'm reading it as well. Plus, I would hope my dealer would give me a heads up if it was a domesday scenario...

On the positive side, IF we ever do get our manual Jeeps, they'll probably be in high demand if/when we sell ours :)
Yeah same, my dealer downplaying it. I'd bet it'll add a bit of wait time but need a manual while I still can get them. That's true nothing says high demand like reducing torque due to clutch fires!
 
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nyvisual

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For what it’s worth. I contacted a local shop about replacing the clutch to a Jeep I haven’t taken delivery of yet, and this was his response:


I just got off the phone with our contact at a Jeep dealership. He told me that the recall is to inspect one of the lines coming from the master cylinder and possibly install a sleeve into the master cylinder. He told me on VERY rare occasions they have to replace the clutch itself.

Honestly, most of the time we recommend OE, or Exedy clutches. The problem with the performance clutches is that they are designed for extreme racing, performance, and horsepower. On mostly stock applications, a performance clutch is too stiff and uncomfortable for daily driving.

Honestly, if I were you, I would just let them complete the recall, and drive it. If you are still wanting to do something more performance, you can come in and we can discuss options and see what is in stock. Right now, most everything is backordered. “

This is the first I’ve heard of these additional fixes. I’m really curious to read your thoughts.
 

jeepoch

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Paul, et., al.,

Hey one last depressing thought on this manual transmission debacle subject. If the Car and Driver and Consumer Reports articles are accurate, that implies that FCA's fix, while seemingly insignificant from a software patch perspective, is likely an all-out deal breaker for me (but just me, I have no current skin in the game).

Their itty-bitty little software patch will probably reduce your engine's output torque to the point it couldn't possibly damage the clutch unless you really (really) tried. Do you want to purchase a lamed down version of your powerplant, only delivering a fraction of your engine's potential rated output? May as well put a motorcycle engine in it but still pay for the bigger engine block.

Go ahead and wait for that software 'fix'. You'll get to drive that manual trans on a go-cart in a Wrangler body. Thanks, I like my Jeep but not that much.

Perhaps you can redirect your deposit to another unit they have in stock. As long as they can sell you something, other than a walk-away refund, I'm certain they'll still do business. You may even be in a position to get a remarkably great deal in the process.

Did I mention that I'm loving everything about my ZF8 automatic. I don't miss the manual at all. This may yet result in a win-win. Great deal, and you just might like the ZF8 as well for yourself. With it's AutoStick you can always drive it as if it is a manual, just without the left leg action.

Regardless, at least you won't have to drive a Jeep with some significantly reduced fraction of it's available horsepower.

Yay, some software fix. FCA has botched this to the point of no return.

Good luck. Really...

Jay
 

sk00pie

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Paul, et., al.,

Hey one last depressing thought on this manual transmission debacle subject. If the Car and Driver and Consumer Reports articles are accurate, that implies that FCA's fix, while seemingly insignificant from a software patch perspective, is likely an all-out deal breaker for me (but just me, I have no current skin in the game).

Their itty-bitty little software patch will probably reduce your engine's output torque to the point it couldn't possibly damage the clutch unless you really (really) tried. Do you want to purchase a lamed down version of your powerplant, only delivering a fraction of your engine's potential rated output? May as well put a motorcycle engine in it but still pay for the bigger engine block.

Go ahead and wait for that software 'fix'. You'll get to drive that manual trans on a go-cart in a Wrangler body. Thanks, I like my Jeep but not that much.

Perhaps you can redirect your deposit to another unit they have in stock. As long as they can sell you something, other than a walk-away refund, I'm certain they'll still do business. You may even be in a position to get a remarkably great deal in the process.

Did I mention that I'm loving everything about my ZF8 automatic. I don't miss the manual at all. This may yet result in a win-win. Great deal, and you just might like the ZF8 as well for yourself. With it's AutoStick you can always drive it as if it is a manual, just without the left leg action.

Regardless, at least you won't have to drive a Jeep with some significantly reduced fraction of it's available horsepower.

Yay, some software fix. FCA has botched this to the point of no return.

Good luck. Really...

Jay
The articles seem to all say the software update will reduce torque in situations in which the clutch could over heat, like towing. I don't think I'd go as far to compare the update from taking a 500hp super car to a 75hp motorcycle. FYI I currently have an automatic 2018 JL, the transmission is fine. I wouldn't say using the "manual" mode on the automatic is even in the same ballpark of driving a true 3 pedal manual car.
 

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There's a few comments on this thread I've seen, so I will try to answer them in one post:
1) There is a recall, we are still building but vehicles will have the recall repaired prior to delivery.
2) The fix is a software update, which is expected in March. The inspection that someone mentioned is related to a different recall that was released last year, W12.
3) The fix doesn't affect engine performance under normal circumstances or towing.

There are some other threads out there that discuss this same topic as well.

Kaitlin
Jeep Cares
 

sk00pie

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There's a few comments on this thread I've seen, so I will try to answer them in one post:
1) There is a recall, we are still building but vehicles will have the recall repaired prior to delivery.
2) The fix is a software update, which is expected in March. The inspection that someone mentioned is related to a different recall that was released last year, W12.
3) The fix doesn't affect engine performance under normal circumstances or towing.

There are some other threads out there that discuss this same topic as well.

Kaitlin
Jeep Cares
Thanks Kaitlin! I'm looking to order my manual Wrangler next week. Sounding like they WILL take the order, and build, just cannot release it to me until the recall. Recall is hopefully in March, trying to get a sense of how much of delay that will cause this for me.
 

JeepCares

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Thanks Kaitlin! I'm looking to order my manual Wrangler next week. Sounding like they WILL take the order, and build, just cannot release it to me until the recall. Recall is hopefully in March, trying to get a sense of how much of delay that will cause this for me.
No problem! You are correct.

Kaitlin
Jeep Cares
 

KaiyaKai

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There's a few comments on this thread I've seen, so I will try to answer them in one post:
1) There is a recall, we are still building but vehicles will have the recall repaired prior to delivery.
2) The fix is a software update, which is expected in March. The inspection that someone mentioned is related to a different recall that was released last year, W12.
3) The fix doesn't affect engine performance under normal circumstances or towing.

There are some other threads out there that discuss this same topic as well.

Kaitlin
Jeep Cares
Can you figure out what the hold up is with the 4xes? 😁 Good news for the people who ordered manuals, though.
 

JohnAinVA

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There's a few comments on this thread I've seen, so I will try to answer them in one post:
1) There is a recall, we are still building but vehicles will have the recall repaired prior to delivery.
2) The fix is a software update, which is expected in March. The inspection that someone mentioned is related to a different recall that was released last year, W12.
3) The fix doesn't affect engine performance under normal circumstances or towing.

There are some other threads out there that discuss this same topic as well.

Kaitlin
Jeep Cares
Thank you!!!
 

beaups

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All manual transmission aficionados,

Not to be critical of your three pedal expertise, but the JL implementation of the ZF8 speed automatic rocks!

I have driven manuals my entire life. A few automatics scattered here and there on rare occasions. However, I always tended to favor amanual. They just give you way much more control.

Not any more! I purchased my 2019 2-door Sport S 3.6L Auto based upon a deal I just couldn't pass up. Nearly $9K below invoice due to a dealership 3+ month cluster repair fubar. They essentially just wanted this Jeep off their books.

Best good luck I've ever had. Thought I'd miss the third pedal... Not in the slightest.

This ZF8 with AutoStick gives me all the control I've ever had with any manual. Off road especially in 4Lo, I never have to struggle with riding the clutch over difficult obstacles. Just select a gear and the ZF8 nearly immediately responds.

On road, its shift points are smooth, quick, almost imperceptible (especially the middle and high-gear ranges). It down shifts just like I would, likely even better on hard braking conditions. In summary it's nearly as flawless a powertrain implementation as I've ever experienced. As a former Chrysler Powertrain Software Engineer, I'm very impressed. Typically, I tend to be overly critical and bitch about nearly every calibration setting in just about any car I drive.

If you are after precision control of your Jeep and can get beyond any ego of exercising your left foot in doing so, ditch this problematic disintegrating, potentially explosive clutch-plate disaster and move up to something much (much) better.

You won't regret it.

Jay
The ZF8 is a great transmission, but there seems to be something unique or uncommon to the implementation in the Wrangler as there are *plenty* of threads, including very recently, on this forum with AT failures and months+ long waits on parts.

I think we've had maybe 2 users here with an actual clutch failure on the manual and I don't recall seeing a single manual transmission failure? Yes, the recalls are annoying....

Also, your leap to explain the 6MT desires with ego is a stretch. Some of us just find it more fun and engaging. Besides, what's more engaging that trying to escape a burning vehicle? ;)
 

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