Willing&Able

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As far as i can tell yes. I cannot speak for every manual trans out their though. All i know is the creaking sounds and the pedal feeling spongy and odd didn't start untill after the first summer, so about 6 months into ownership.

It doesn't effect the operation really, just one of those things you do notice.

You guys got it, thanks for the correction. I've had the decreasing feel or 'sponginess' and I have taken it to three different dealerships. They have to bleed it for hours (one overnight) to try and correct. And my understanding the whole mechanism is plastic. One aftermarket clutch company was trying to use braided steel line and other beefed up components to improve this.

All around - OEM or aftermarket (of which there are few options) - this manual transmission/clutch assembly has been subpar for a $50k vehicle. I've driven manuals for 30 years in high performance applications, so this isn't my first rodeo either....





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BroncoHound

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Placing my order within the next 24 hours. Worried about the clutch squeak now. Want as few issues as possible!
Don't sweat it; mine, like many many others, doesn't make a sound it isn't supposed to. Mine was built after the previous clutch recall and, of course, is subject to this current recall but I'm not sweating it until the next time I'm in for an oil change.

Keep in mind, consumers rarely take to the internet to say "everything's fine!" with something they've purchased, so the horror stories you read are statistically a very small series of outliers. That's not to trivialize anyone's concerns or existing problems; obviously there is something that wasn't engineered or implemented properly else there wouldn't be a safety recall. But the overwhelming odds are that, when your new Jeep arrives to you, everything will be just fine with the manual transmission.

I also think people are getting up in arms about the software fix perhaps a bit unnecessarily. Folks read "torque reduction" and they think the Jeep will be totally nerfed and unable to pull out of their driveways faster than their kids' GoKart. The way I'm reading this, torque would only be manipulated (beyond what it already is; keep in mind these things are packing supercomputers for ECM's that are tracking and changing hundreds of thousands of data points and POI every second) at the point where clutch slippage was occurring with sufficient frequency to generate enough heat to potentially cause a catastrophic failure. I'm interpreting this to mean the average end user will never experience or feel this torque reduction unless they are driving harmfully improper (meaning riding the piss out of the clutch under high load and high rev scenarios).

Now, if I'm proven wrong here and this software flash further nerfs an already embarrassingly poorly engineered power delivery system with the manual transmission, I'll happily grab my pitch fork and eat crow all the way to Riotsville. But I'm personally not expecting that to be the case.
 

BroncoHound

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Thanks man. For the tune, you pull the PCM and ship it to Petty’s garage in NC. The whole ship out and receive back was a little over a week. there’s no handheld to flash back to stock, etc.

Id be surprised if Magnuson altered their tune to limit torque, based on the same parameters that Jeep is using. I don’t think they have a separate tune for the manuals and another for the auto. Would be surprised to see Maggie try to address this, but truly - what do I know.

Assuming that a better clutch is the total and best solution, that’s what I’ll be getting. And so I’m not hopeful for any new tune, even from Magnuson.

I’m just slightly worried about Jeep dealerships being disallowed to release the Jeep to me, under some safety rules, if they don’t have record of the recall having been performed. Like I could have an aftermarket clutch, be good to go, and take the Jeep in for an oil change - and they be like “sorry sir we know you don’t want it, but we are forced to flash PCM for this recall before we can return the Jeep to you.”
Being as it is a safety recall that affects the PCM, I'd be willing to bet Magnuson will offer support to ensure you can get the recall done and still retain your functionality (I'm better through some kind of web-based update). It would be pretty bad business for them not to, as that is essentially telling their customers "you have to forego future potential safety concerns if you run our product." If you give them a call and explain your concerns, I'd put dollars to pesos that they will work with you to create a solution.

I also don't believe the dealership can legally prevent you from refusing a safety recall and taking your vehicle back. Now, they might refuse to do the oil change or otherwise touch the vehicle before completing the safety recall, but I don't think they have a legal leg to stand on by keeping your vehicle or rendering it inert by flashing against your documented wishes without writing you a check for the Jeep first.

This is far from the first time a flash has come out and vehicles that have aftermarket modifications need to get them. I've gone through several dealer updates and flashes and recalls with my Cummins Ram pickup that has been deleted and custom tuned several times over; depending on the tuning I was running at the time, it was a slightly different process but as long as you're open and honest with both the tuner and the dealer, I've never run into an issue. Same with the tuned Hellcat Challenger I had, same with the supercharged JK I had, same with the tuned motorcycles I've had. You aren't alone here, and you won't be left out in the cold.
 

AMKRubicon610

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Don't sweat it; mine, like many many others, doesn't make a sound it isn't supposed to. Mine was built after the previous clutch recall and, of course, is subject to this current recall but I'm not sweating it until the next time I'm in for an oil change.

Keep in mind, consumers rarely take to the internet to say "everything's fine!" with something they've purchased, so the horror stories you read are statistically a very small series of outliers. That's not to trivialize anyone's concerns or existing problems; obviously there is something that wasn't engineered or implemented properly else there wouldn't be a safety recall. But the overwhelming odds are that, when your new Jeep arrives to you, everything will be just fine with the manual transmission.

I also think people are getting up in arms about the software fix perhaps a bit unnecessarily. Folks read "torque reduction" and they think the Jeep will be totally nerfed and unable to pull out of their driveways faster than their kids' GoKart. The way I'm reading this, torque would only be manipulated (beyond what it already is; keep in mind these things are packing supercomputers for ECM's that are tracking and changing hundreds of thousands of data points and POI every second) at the point where clutch slippage was occurring with sufficient frequency to generate enough heat to potentially cause a catastrophic failure. I'm interpreting this to mean the average end user will never experience or feel this torque reduction unless they are driving harmfully improper (meaning riding the piss out of the clutch under high load and high rev scenarios).

Now, if I'm proven wrong here and this software flash further nerfs an already embarrassingly poorly engineered power delivery system with the manual transmission, I'll happily grab my pitch fork and eat crow all the way to Riotsville. But I'm personally not expecting that to be the case.
such a great post! there wouldn't be so many wranglers on the road if there were as many problems as this forum leads us to believe. I'm trying to remain optimistic as i prepare to take delivery of my first jeep. Theres no such thing as a perfect vehicle. Ever since i joined my first forum a few years ago (5thGenRams), i realized how quickly i learned about all the imperfections about my truck, while only actually experiencing a hand full of them. Reading about other people's issues and worrying about my truck took a lot of joy out of owning it! Its tough but i try to keep a positive perspective and just enjoy it.
 

Bocephus

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Being as it is a safety recall that affects the PCM, I'd be willing to bet Magnuson will offer support to ensure you can get the recall done and still retain your functionality (I'm better through some kind of web-based update). It would be pretty bad business for them not to, as that is essentially telling their customers "you have to forego future potential safety concerns if you run our product." If you give them a call and explain your concerns, I'd put dollars to pesos that they will work with you to create a solution.

I also don't believe the dealership can legally prevent you from refusing a safety recall and taking your vehicle back. Now, they might refuse to do the oil change or otherwise touch the vehicle before completing the safety recall, but I don't think they have a legal leg to stand on by keeping your vehicle or rendering it inert by flashing against your documented wishes without writing you a check for the Jeep first.

This is far from the first time a flash has come out and vehicles that have aftermarket modifications need to get them. I've gone through several dealer updates and flashes and recalls with my Cummins Ram pickup that has been deleted and custom tuned several times over; depending on the tuning I was running at the time, it was a slightly different process but as long as you're open and honest with both the tuner and the dealer, I've never run into an issue. Same with the tuned Hellcat Challenger I had, same with the supercharged JK I had, same with the tuned motorcycles I've had. You aren't alone here, and you won't be left out in the cold.
Awesome, appreciate those insights, thanks!
 

flyer92

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So sorry to hear about the stop order. After owning MT Jeeps for decades and debating back and forth for days, I just ordered a Sport with AT because I'm expecting a knee surgery or two in the coming years. Still want to be able to drive my Jeep with one good leg/knee, so it was a compromise that had to be made. Although the MT stop order is troubling, I'm just curious if it has had any affect on AT production, or even overall production at the plant.

Also...I keep seeing folks here refer to their automatic transmissions as "ZF8," but this nomenclature doesn't seem to exist anywhere on the Jeep website or other documentation. Just curious where this is coming from, and if it refers to the 850RE or the 8HP75.

Best of luck to you MT owners out there, and hope the stop order gets lifted soon. I'll include you all in my Jeep prayers!
 

flyer92

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Thanks for the link. I am somewhat familiar with ZF components and have read elsewhere about the 8HP50 trans, but didn't want to assume this is the same as the 850RE. This Wikipedia reference was also pretty good, listing all the variants:

ZF 8HP transmission - Wikipedia
 

SteadyC

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It looks like FCA licensed to build the ZF Friedrichshafen HP850 (ZF8) Transmission locally in the US. When built by FCA the transmission is referred to as the 850RE. When built by ZF, it's the HP850. Same transmission design, built by two different entities.

See if you come to the same conclusion. Please reference the Wikipedia ZF_8HP_Transmission article link as Jeff @flyer92 states and make your own conclusion.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_8HP_transmission

Again, sorry to hijack the manual transmission thread. However, this information may be enlightening and relevant to those potential Jeep purchasers that want a JL more than they want a fubar'd manual.

Jay
My god you have to stop. if you are going to talk smack about something, at least have your facts correct. First, you keep saying there is something wrong with the manual transmission. There is nothing wrong with the transmission. Second, while not everyone loves this type of clutch, there is nothing wrong with the clutch, until air enters the system and causes it to fail. The issue, is a single hose that can be damaged, and allow air into the system, and that air allows the clutch to slip and heat up under normal driving operations. There was a first recall, and most people only got the hose replaced, that’s it. Most people’s clutch tested out fine as part of the first recall. Quit bagging on the whole system, for just a hose. Yes, it is frustrating for those of us with manuals, but you are overstating the actual issues with the whole system, way overstating.
 

Truckn

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My god you have to stop. if you are going to talk smack about something, at least have your facts correct. First, you keep saying there is something wrong with the manual transmission. There is nothing wrong with the transmission. Second, while not everyone loves this type of clutch, there is nothing wrong with the clutch, until air enters the system and causes it to fail. The issue, is a single hose that can be damaged, and allow air into the system, and that air allows the clutch to slip and heat up under normal driving operations. There was a first recall, and most people only got the hose replaced, that’s it. Most people’s clutch tested out fine as part of the first recall. Quit bagging on the whole system, for just a hose. Yes, it is frustrating for those of us with manuals, but you are overstating the actual issues with the whole system, way overstating.
I have a 6MT -- I won't buy anything other than a manual.

Anywho... Is it really a hose? What I'm reading says FCA intends to fix it with software?
 

MOS

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Jeepcares told me yesterday that my 6MT (ordered 12/15, build sheet available 1/21, in JS since 1/22) has a ship ETA of 2/24 and would be sent PRIOR TO the release of the recall fix.

No idea if that’s actually correct or not, or if it is whether it’s just because my unit was built on literally the last day before the recall went into effect.

Also... I specifically asked if it could legally be sold to me while it has the recall outstanding and the rep said yes it could.

So... confused?????


MOS
 

JimmyZ

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Jeepcares told me yesterday that my 6MT (ordered 12/15, build sheet available 1/21, in JS since 1/22) has a ship ETA of 2/24 and would be sent PRIOR TO the release of the recall fix.

No idea if that’s actually correct or not, or if it is whether it’s just because my unit was built on literally the last day before the recall went into effect

Also... I specifically asked if it could legally be sold to me while it has the recall outstanding and the rep said yes it could.

So... confused?????


MOS
I have a feeling you got one of the "intelligent" ones there. No way in hell they are releasing any MT without the recall fixed. Otherwise majority of us would have our Jeeps already.
 

COBill

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I have a feeling you got one of the "intelligent" ones there. No way in hell they are releasing any MT without the recall fixed. Otherwise majority of us would have our Jeeps already.
I think parsing the words is important.

Will the vehicle be shipped to the dealer? Likely so.
Can the dealer sell the vehicle to the purchaser? Yes, they can.

Can they deliver the vehicle before the recall is done? No.
 

JimmyZ

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I think parsing the words is important.

Will the vehicle be shipped to the dealer? Likely so.
Can the dealer sell the vehicle to the purchaser? Yes, they can.

Can they deliver the vehicle before the recall is done? No.
I would be even agree with the above statement. Though I still believe as @JeepCares has stated here multiple times, they are not leaving Ohio without this miracle software.
 

DanW

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I spoke to my service advisor and friend yesterday at my dealership to get in line early for the flash. He told me he'll call me right away when it is ready. I want it done and off my mind, then it's off to Moab on March 26!
 

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