Start/Stop opinion?

[unsavory]

So, I could get into as much engineering detail as you want about this, but the short version is that modern starters are a lot more durable than those from even 10-15 years ago. There's a lot going into minimizing starter wear - cam/cylinder position sensors, higher-torque (and lower-RPM) motors, solenoid decoupling of the brushes the instant the startup sequence is complete, needle bearings instead of oil bushings. The amperage of the whole system is lower, which minimizes heatsoak... the starter system in your JL (ETorque or no) is rated for 100x the MTBF compared to the starter in a JK. It's going to be one of the last of the major drivetrain components to fail on its own.

The 12V auxiliary battery, however... that's entirely another question, and that's been the source of 95% of the ESS failures on the JL (the remaining 5% are either sensor or fuse related). My recommendation on dealing with that is to replace the stock setup with the Genesis dual-battery kit as soon as feasible.

I don't think he's referring to heat soak within the starter, but rather the effect of all the systems being shut down every couple minutes, and all the fluid sitting there stagnant, soaking up heat because it's not circulating through the cooling systems, etc.

It's heat soak of the entire vehicle, which can't be good for it.

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[Asuriyan]

I don't think he's referring to heat soak within the starter, but rather the effect of all the systems being shut down every couple minutes, and all the fluid sitting there stagnant, soaking up heat because it's not circulating through the cooling systems, etc.

It's heat soak of the entire vehicle, which can't be good for it.

That's fair. I'm an electrical engineer (heavy-industry powertrain integration) so V=IR was the first thing to come to mind. Wiring can get pretty hot in a high-current system like a starter-motor, which increases the resistance of the whole system, which increases the voltage requirements. Improvements in materials mean starters don't get nearly as hot as they used to, though, and the voltages are relatively low. When it auto-restarts, the starter applies exactly the needed torque to get the engine spinning again and no more, (those crank position sensors again) so minimal waste heat there as well.

With regard to engine and cooling system heat soak, hybrids have been finding ways to minimize that for decades. The simplest change is that the water pump runs independently of the engine. When your engine is stopped at a light, coolant is still circulating - so the block doesn't heat up. Your radiator temp will go up a few degrees, but it'll restart the engine long before it gets to the point that the fans would come on.

Think of it as more of a pause than a real stop.

 

[Roky]

Curious what everyone’s opinion is on the start/stop function? This will be the first time I will own one and I’ve been wondering if they are bad on the starter and things like that. I really dislike that they have taking some options away from the Jeeps. You can no longer get a 6 cylinder in an automatic and can no longer order the Gorilla glass. I’m just curious what off roading will be like with a 4 cylinder and the start/stop function.

My opinion…… it sucks ass….I got the tazer mini a few years ago and haven’t touched that button ever since… when my aux battery took a shit I deleted that little MFer, and now I’m operating on one well made battery like god intended…….

 

[calemasters]

Curious what everyone’s opinion is on the start/stop function? This will be the first time I will own one and I’ve been wondering if they are bad on the starter and things like that. I really dislike that they have taking some options away from the Jeeps. You can no longer get a 6 cylinder in an automatic and can no longer order the Gorilla glass. I’m just curious what off roading will be like with a 4 cylinder and the start/stop function.

I normally disable start/stop. Sometimes, if the stars are properly aligned, I activate start/stop. I love it when I stop at at red light or stop sign and my engine stops and then restarts one second later, when I have to go. How much fuel did I save and how much did I decrease the carbon footprint by using start/stop?

Good thing there is a solution for this.

 

[JuzaMe]

Being a turbo diesel owner, both in my JLURD and Duramax, I am a big proponent of allowing the engine to idle after normal operation to allow the turbo to cool down. The security system in my Duramax even has a feature that allows the engine to continue running for a specific period of time after you exit the vehicle just for this reason.
I contacted Tazer and asked if this is a feature they could ad to their program and was told it is something they will consider.

 

[bjm00se]

I’m just curious what off roading will be like with a 4 cylinder and the start/stop function?

Jumping to the part of your question that's a question -
in 4lo, start/stop is disabled automatically, so nothing to worry about.

Also, 4lo is your friend with the 4cyl turbo, since it brings the revs up earlier, into the turbo band.

I've noticed some off-roaders tend to stay in 4hi a bit too late, basically until they need a "gear lower than first." In general, I'll switch to 4lo when I air down, and don't switch out of it until I air back up again. (Now, there are some higher-speed washboarded dirt roads where that isn't true, and I want to be aired down but don't want the super-low gearing. It's only a rule-of-thumb)

Anyhow, I suspect your concern is around getting into technical sections with a lot of stop, go, stop, go, back-up, retry, and being concerned that start-stop will complicate your life there. But all that stuff is 4lo territory, start-stop-disabled, so it won't.

With the six-speed three-pedal, the only time start-stop kicks in is when I put it in neutral and let the clutch out, and I only do that at a light I know will be long or e.g. in a long drive thru line. And it doesn't kick in if the A/C or heater is working hard to maintain cabin temp. So I'm personally quite happy with start-stop.

 

[Fudster]

ESS is asinine. Whomever came up with this idea should be stoned (rocks, not pot) to death. Do you want to know how I really feel?

Tom...I think a little context here might be helpful; much as you may know this and I don't want to insult your intelligence.

The EPA is pushing fleet MPG standards down manufacturer's throats and ESS remains the easiest way in the short term to address them.

Your ability to turn ESS off still I think is the lessor of 2 evils given the alternate of the manufacturer not incorporating ESS, or an ESS with a "latching" off button (able to remember its state from one engine crank to the next,) and not achieve its MPG requirements, and be required to pay whopping penalties or buy carbon credits from guys like Tesla at fair market value, passing much of that cost along to you and me.

In time, electric vehicles will be the norm and ESS will go away.

Hate ESS. Hate the EPA. Personally, I tolerate the former and think the rules of the latter could stand to be rewritten. But the intention is to wean us away from ICE power plants to address climate change.

 

[Fudster]

Please elaborate. If there are valid reasons I would like to hear them.

Hey @YJdude:

No expert here but I'm to understand that disconnecting the hood sensor might prevent those with remote start from using the feature while putting a diagnostic code in the EVIC.

While there may be more side effects---I just don't know---I guess if it is limited to these two things then each owner has to weigh their willingness to deal with these side effects versus the pros and cons of other ESS disable methods.

That said, I thought you might like this compromise https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/free-ess-disable-via-hood-pin.15350/ where the connected hood sensor is merely placed sideways.

 

[YJdude]

Hey @YJdude:

No expert here but I'm to understand that disconnecting the hood sensor might prevent those with remote start from using the feature while putting a diagnostic code in the EVIC.

While there may be more side effects---I just don't know---I guess if it is limited to these two things then each owner has to weigh their willingness to deal with these side effects versus the pros and cons of other ESS disable methods.

That said, I thought you might like this compromise https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/free-ess-disable-via-hood-pin.15350/ where the connected hood sensor is merely placed sideways.

Much obliged Fudster!
I believe that's the thread I originally saw, and is exactly how I did mine. I don't mind the little warning light as the result. I personally don't like the idea of messing around with my jeep's computer via aftermarket electronics. [Nothing at all against all the GREAT products out there... there's some pretty ingenious stuff available.]

 

[smokeythecat]

In town I love it. Cars are the single biggest polluter in my metro area so having cars not sitting there idling at stop lights seems like a plus to me. On the trail, however, I disable it because I'm usually out alone and it makes me nervous.

 

[Fudster]

Much obliged Fudster!
I believe that's the thread I originally saw, and is exactly how I did mine. I don't mind the little warning light as the result. I personally don't like the idea of messing around with my jeep's computer via aftermarket electronics. [Nothing at all against all the GREAT products out there... there's some pretty ingenious stuff available.]

Product can be great...I like owning much myself...which is exactly why if I can home grow a good solution to a problem over buying the product to solve it I'd often rather save the $ and DIY it so that I can better afford the product I can't easily home grow a solution for.

 

[Maverickxeo]

I've never turned it off - I really don't mind it on my eTorque. Idling is where most engine 'wear' typically occurs and wasted fueling occurs, and I don't believe there is a lot of damage on the eTorque system for using the start/stop system. It's so smooth, half the time I don't even notice it.

 

[GMX]

I bought my 2019 used, so I didn't know wether I had eTorque or the 12v ESS Aux battery until today when I looked under the jeep to find the 48V system there...so had alot of learning to do...good to know it has an 8 year warranty!...also found an older video by Roadijeff that explains alot, so thought I'd repost it here...

Mild Hybrid eTorque Explained | Jeep Wrangler Forum

 

[rogerutley]

I don’t hate ESS, but I don’t care for it either.

Same here

 

[Concrete King]

Thanks for trying to wear out my starter sooner. And thanks for making a vehicle more complicated.

Permanently disabled.

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