entropy

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Do you think people will be forced to buy half doors? After that, half doors aren't worse than sports cars... actually they don't take a whole parking spot for times when you need to switch to full doors.


Uhh you have to read that last part out loud... and slow. You could say that about Toyota and the FJ Cruiser but Jeep is definitely in to making profits in a niche market.
It isn't just about "let's see if we sell them". There has to be R&D to make a product that would generate profit, something good enough that will sell and generate $$$. All that R&D cost a lot of money that they would have to recover, plus it is effort that could be spent somewhere else.

The FJ cruiser was a failure in the american market, they could not take sales from wranglers. The vast majority of jeep wrangler owners are not in this forum, do not take their jeep off road, do not modify their jeeps, and do not even know half doors are a thing. If half doors would actually generate profit for mopar, they would already be out and they aren't. The reality is they would be absurdly expensive and impractical for most owners. How many people would seriously buy half doors? Mopar's "niche" market is the off-roading community with their 2in lift for example, half doors will not sell nearly as much as the 2 inch lift, because they are so impractical. And what are most owners going to do with their already expensive full doors?

Jeep is trying to appeal to the general population more than ever before. They are barely selling the 2 door compared to the 4 door, and their new 4xe wont even come with 2 doors. I wouldn't be surprised if in the next generation the 2 door is gone. half doors? well....





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jayteal

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Halfdoors = when offroading in dusty/wet/cold conditions when going doorless isn't an option, makes it easier for me to stick my head/upper body out the window and eye the trail in front and to the side of me. When I'm using full doors, I have to do a yoga pose to do the same - that lower door IMO does make a big difference in allowing me to see a little more of the trail since FCA waited too long to make front facing cameras an option for the Rubicons. I'll gladly pay $$ for some sweet half doors.
 

rubileon

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It isn't just about "let's see if we sell them". There has to be R&D to make a product that would generate profit, something good enough that will sell and generate $$$. All that R&D cost a lot of money that they would have to recover, plus it is effort that could be spent somewhere else.

The FJ cruiser was a failure in the american market, they could not take sales from wranglers. The vast majority of jeep wrangler owners are not in this forum, do not take their jeep off road, do not modify their jeeps, and do not even know half doors are a thing. If half doors would actually generate profit for mopar, they would already be out and they aren't. The reality is they would be absurdly expensive and impractical for most owners. How many people would seriously buy half doors? Mopar's "niche" market is the off-roading community with their 2in lift for example, half doors will not sell nearly as much as the 2 inch lift, because they are so impractical. And what are most owners going to do with their already expensive full doors?

Jeep is trying to appeal to the general population more than ever before. They are barely selling the 2 door compared to the 4 door, and their new 4xe wont even come with 2 doors. I wouldn't be surprised if in the next generation the 2 door is gone. half doors? well....
Not for a minute I'd argue that FCA aren't interested in taking people's money but your everyday marketing theories don't fit with the Wrangler in particular.

Jeep was riding on the JK's coat tails when the JL was designed so they didn't try hard and we could sense they wanted the Wrangler to be softer around the edges. But with the Bronco swearing in as the number 1 enemy, do you really think Jeep's aims are still to soften up the Wrangler?

What you're saying is just what happened with Land Rover when they came up with the new Defender... not sure what British clowns looks like but you'd sure find out if you open the door at a Land Rover board meeting room.
 

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doorless on public roads is like wearing only speedos on a 2 hour bus ride to a water park. Logical but creepy.
This is one of the worst takes I've ever seen on this board.

Our doors are off 6 months out of the year and the other 6 months, we wish it was warm and dry enough to have the doors off. Probably 75% of the Wranglers in our city are rolling without doors in the summer.
 

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I've "daily-ed" regular cab trucks for years now - I'd totally rock a 2 door Gladiator but I understand I'm in the minority. I'm just thankful *most* manufacturers still offer regular cabs at all, even if it is primarily fullsizes like F150s and Silverados.

A "WT" version of a regular cab Gladiator would be awesome - give me manual trans, manual windows, manual mirrors, rubber floor, vinyl seats....I'd be in heaven for a parts runner (but I do want a/c which is pretty much standard on everything these days anyhow)
 

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Q1 for pricing ordering and on-sale
It sucks that they're being held up that long, but hopefully it is because they're working out teething issues. I'll probably buy a 6 speed and wait and see on the 4XE, then trade in for one once they're released for 6-12 months. Hell, might keep both. Manual transmissions are extremely rare these days and I'm not sure they'll be produced much longer.
 

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They are barely selling the 2 door compared to the 4 door, and their new 4xe wont even come with 2 doors. I wouldn't be surprised if in the next generation the 2 door is gone. half doors? well....
Do you have a data source for the 2-door vs 4-door numbers? I've heard they sell more Unlimiteds than 2-doors, but my anecdotal data was that dealers didn't seem to have a problem selling the 2-doors they had, and there were more Unlimited sitting. That of course is influenced by what they ordered, but not sure I believe the 2-door is "barely selling."

If they discontinue the 2-door then the icon will be dead and Ford will get a chunk of new customers. There are a certain percentage of buyers who would not buy an Unlimited, full stop. If that number is worth it to FCA is another discussion.
 

entropy

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Do you have a data source for the 2-door vs 4-door numbers? I've heard they sell more Unlimiteds than 2-doors, but my anecdotal data was that dealers didn't seem to have a problem selling the 2-doors they had, and there were more Unlimited sitting. That of course is influenced by what they ordered, but not sure I believe the 2-door is "barely selling."

If they discontinue the 2-door then the icon will be dead and Ford will get a chunk of new customers. There are a certain percentage of buyers who would not buy an Unlimited, full stop. If that number is worth it to FCA is another discussion.
The data is unfortunately difficult to find. For some reason Jeep doesn't like sharing those numbers. On the last years of the JK only 25%~33% of sales were 2 doors.

https://www.allpar.com/cars/production/wrangler.html

And that trend was increasing in favor of the 4 door. It makes sense, the vast majority of buyers in the Wrangler market are buying a SUV, not a sports vehicle to take off-roading. The 2 door isn't cheap at all, and it is very impractical when compared to other SUVs. There are dealers here in LA that don't even carry 2 door JLs. Sure it might not be hard for dealers to sell 2 doors, but they don't carry as many.

The new 4xe and diesel being only available for the 4 door shows how Jeep might be slowly pulling out of the 2 door.

Now the 2 door Bronco looks a lot less impractical than the 2 door JL. It actually has pretty decent cargo space and towing capacity, and it could actually compete with most small to medium sized SUVs in the market. It also has a longer wheelbase though which could be a good thing or a bad thing depending how you look at it.

Jeep might keep the 2 door, they might pull it to put all their efforts into the 4 door, or they might make it more practical like the 2 door bronco. It is all speculation. But the 4 door is vastly a more popular option, and that I could argue is a hard fact. Pulling the 2 door, why would that kill the icon? when people see a 4 door wrangler, they see a Jeep. The CJ was very different than next generation jeeps. They didn't kill the icon. Hardtops didn't kill the icon, full size doors didn't, more storage didn't, wider wheelbase didn't, etc.. why would an extra set of doors do it? in fact, it made it far more popular and actually saved the model.
 
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TXRubicon

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It's just this year really did a number on ALL manufacturing. I don't think its necessarily teething issues but think about the amount of productivity lost for 2-3 months that they are having to make up for in just a few. If they are only off 1-2 months from their original target, that a sign of strength and determination to me.

It sucks that they're being held up that long, but hopefully it is because they're working out teething issues. I'll probably buy a 6 speed and wait and see on the 4XE, then trade in for one once they're released for 6-12 months. Hell, might keep both. Manual transmissions are extremely rare these days and I'm not sure they'll be produced much longer.
 

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. Pulling the 2 door, why would that kill the icon? when people see a 4 door wrangler, they see a Jeep. The CJ was very different than next generation jeeps. They didn't kill the icon. Hardtops didn't kill the icon, full size doors didn't, more storage didn't, wider wheelbase didn't, etc.. why would an extra set of doors do it? in fact, it made it far more popular and actually saved the model.
the canonical “Jeep” is 2 doors. Instantly recognizable in profile. fwiw when my wife sees an Unlimited, she doesn’t see a Jeep. I see one only because I’m into vehicles and know the backstory.

I get why people buy the Unlimited, but the history of the Wranlger is firmly 2-doors (be they half or full) and the ability to go topless. I can say an Unlimited will never be in the driveway of our house. My wife hates the 4-door :)
 

entropy

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the canonical “Jeep” is 2 doors. Instantly recognizable in profile. fwiw when my wife sees an Unlimited, she doesn’t see a Jeep. I see one only because I’m into vehicles and know the backstory.

I get why people buy the Unlimited, but the history of the Wranlger is firmly 2-doors (be they half or full) and the ability to go topless. I can say an Unlimited will never be in the driveway of our house. My wife hates the 4-door :)Jim
Yeah I get you. same with me and wife. We are determined to keep the 2 door and to me the 4 door looks like a school bus. But I am just being realistic and thinking outside my fanatic mindset. Perception is relative.
 

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...
If you have any specific questions about anything you see here, let me know....
Thanks for posting TXRubicon. I'm full of questions on the 4xe & hope you may have other images or recollection which could help proved some answers.

Do you recall if the 4xe's interior battery status indicator lights run through the change tray on the rop of the dash? This could cause issues mounting a phone mount in that location.

The 4xe wheels are unique to that option; were they the standard 7.5 inch width?

Did the rear seat backs fold down flat?
 

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Yeah I get you. same with me and wife. We are determined to keep the 2 door and to me the 4 door looks like a school bus. But I am just being realistic and thinking outside my fanatic mindset. Perception is relative.
And reality is perception. I think there are enough fanatics beyond you and me to keep the 2-door as a viable model for FCA. They could even leave it "retro" as they make the JM (assuming M comes after L) - the Unlimited gets all the updates, the 2-door is more bare bones.

Who knows. My magic 8-ball probably has the same amount of logic as some of their product managers...
 

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It sucks that they're being held up that long, but hopefully it is because they're working out teething issues. I'll probably buy a 6 speed and wait and see on the 4XE, then trade in for one once they're released for 6-12 months. Hell, might keep both. Manual transmissions are extremely rare these days and I'm not sure they'll be produced much longer.
That's some wishful thinking (though I wish I could share your optimism). It took Jeep three years to straighten out the wandering steering issue.
 

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