Speaker Setup and Help

ToPar9

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Good Morning,
Before we get started, I will preface with, I literally spent the entire weekend researching and teaching myself, OHM, Watts, Power, do's & don'ts, RMS, Max Watt (doesn't matter, publicity ploy), and so on and so forth.
The majority of examples only included running series or parallel speakers of the same type, woofers to be exact.
I have a simple question, that I cannot find an answer that explains how/why.
If you wire two sets of speakers, with different RMS, how can I lower power to the lower RMS speaker set?
I have the following RMS for my speaker setup, pending changes that might need to be made.
300rms (8" Sub) - 4 ohms (I also found a dual coil 10" 2 ohms, that can be wired for 4 ohms, with identical stats as the 8)
80rms (three-way component - 6.5", 3", 1",), at 4 ohms.
60rms (two-way component - 6.5", 1"), at 4 ohms.
My worry is with the 60rms 2-way component set.
I found a 4 channel amp, 3x100, 1x300 at 4 ohms or...
1-mono 300x1 and 1-100x2 amps. (in my opinion, 2 amps is a bit ridiculous for such a small 'system')
Another option would be a 2x75 amp at 4 ohms.
From what I have learned, you can multiple the RMS by 1.20 and .90 to find the range of potential amps that will remain in the "safe zone".
80 x 1.20 = 96w
80 x .90 = 72w
60 x 1.20 = 72w
60 x .90 = 54w
The 2x75w amp might be right in the sweet spot for both sets of components.
My other issue is with the lack of Mid's. I assume since both sets would include crossovers, I might be ok?
My other thought would be:
4" knee, 3" dash, 1" dash, 6.5" soundbar - which would require a revamp with amp selection.
I am aiming for better than factory, but cheaper than full Alpine setup. I don't need body rattling bass, but something enjoyable with the top removed.

I appreciate your time and any input. I would like to avoid having a shop charge me out the backside for installation. Plus, I can't find a shop that is open at this time. Since we are locked down, and I work from home, I figured I would work on this during my "home detention".



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Jebiruph

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Good Morning,
Before we get started, I will preface with, I literally spent the entire weekend researching and teaching myself, OHM, Watts, Power, do's & don'ts, RMS, Max Watt (doesn't matter, publicity ploy), and so on and so forth.
The majority of examples only included running series or parallel speakers of the same type, woofers to be exact.
I have a simple question, that I cannot find an answer that explains how/why.
If you wire two sets of speakers, with different RMS, how can I lower power to the lower RMS speaker set?
I have the following RMS for my speaker setup, pending changes that might need to be made.
300rms (8" Sub) - 4 ohms (I also found a dual coil 10" 2 ohms, that can be wired for 4 ohms, with identical stats as the 8)
80rms (three-way component - 6.5", 3", 1",), at 4 ohms.
60rms (two-way component - 6.5", 1"), at 4 ohms.
My worry is with the 60rms 2-way component set.
I found a 4 channel amp, 3x100, 1x300 at 4 ohms or...
1-mono 300x1 and 1-100x2 amps. (in my opinion, 2 amps is a bit ridiculous for such a small 'system')
Another option would be a 2x75 amp at 4 ohms.
From what I have learned, you can multiple the RMS by 1.20 and .90 to find the range of potential amps that will remain in the "safe zone".
80 x 1.20 = 96w
80 x .90 = 72w
60 x 1.20 = 72w
60 x .90 = 54w
The 2x75w amp might be right in the sweet spot for both sets of components.
My other issue is with the lack of Mid's. I assume since both sets would include crossovers, I might be ok?
My other thought would be:
4" knee, 3" dash, 1" dash, 6.5" soundbar - which would require a revamp with amp selection.
I am aiming for better than factory, but cheaper than full Alpine setup. I don't need body rattling bass, but something enjoyable with the top removed.

I appreciate your time and any input. I would like to avoid having a shop charge me out the backside for installation. Plus, I can't find a shop that is open at this time. Since we are locked down, and I work from home, I figured I would work on this during my "home detention".
You're not going to like my answer, but the way you lower power to the lower RMS speaker set is with the volume control. Are you worried that you are going to have the volume so loud that you blow the speakers? Also curious if with all of your research did you see anything regarding impedance matching and maximum power transfer?
 
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ToPar9

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You're not going to like my answer, but the way you lower power to the lower RMS speaker set is with the volume control. Are you worried that you are going to have the volume so loud that you blow the speakers? Also curious if with all of your research did you see anything regarding impedance matching and maximum power transfer?
I did come across impedance matching and maximum power transfer, but by your question, I am guessing I don't fully grasp the concept.
I assumed 4-ohm speakers across the board would require me to have matching, 4-ohm amp that would equal out to the same wattage between .9 and 1.2 of the RMS.
Example: 100W channel @ 4ohm, 4-25W (4ohm) speakers, theoretically could be wired in series.
I am looking for a worry-free system, that I won't need to worry about. (speaker damage, overheated amp, etc)
I don't need to rattle my neighbors house, but I do want something with a little extra.

One of many setups I looked at below. this is not my final decision, but it's an option I reviewed.
Focal Access 165 A3 (3-way component)
Locations
6.5" Knee
4" Dash-replacing factory
1" Above 4" on the dash
4-ohm, 80w nominal power

Focal RSE 165 (2-way component)
Located - Soundbar
6.5", 1" - 4-ohm, 50w nominal power

SSV/Metra Pods, AMP Pro
This is only one scenario I looked at. I stopped looking at JBL because they are 3-ohm, and that confused me even more.
I view this as needing 2 channels at 75w. Not ideal, but would work.
An amp similar to JL Audio XD/4v2 --- (4-Channel Amp - 75 watt RMS x4 at 4-ohm)

Mono amp to power the sub below
8" Rock Fos P2D4-8
Dual 4-ohm voice coil. If wired in parallel, I can find a 2ohm mono amp.

Once I figure this out, I can make it work. Understanding how it all needs to work is my issue.
 
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ToPar9

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From the sounds of it, I will need to find sets of speakers that are closer to RMS to avoid issues, along with the correct amp to match.
 
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ToPar9

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From the sounds of it, I will need to find sets of speakers that are closer to RMS to avoid issues, along with the correct amp to match.
Or I run amp free and get what I get from the head unit.
 

Gonz

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Have you considered these for your soundbar?
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_091PS165F/Focal-Performance-PS-165F.html?tp=106

It's a little jump in price from the RSE that you're looking at, but the RMS ratings would match really well with the 3-way you're looking at for up front. I am in the middle of installing them in my soundbar right now, and have their equivalent 3-way going in up front. Run off a 75x4 at 4ohms amp.

edited to add: they're on sale right now, so a big improvement in speaker at a really good price.
 
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ToPar9

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Have you considered these for your soundbar?
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_091PS165F/Focal-Performance-PS-165F.html?tp=106

It's a little jump in price from the RSE that you're looking at, but the RMS ratings would match really well with the 3-way you're looking at for up front. I am in the middle of installing them in my soundbar right now, and have their equivalent 3-way going in up front. Run off a 75x4 at 4ohms amp.

edited to add: they're on sale right now, so a big improvement in speaker at a really good price.
Hey Gonz. I’m trying to understand before I start ordering things all Willy Nilly. I’d take a lot into consideration if I knew what to look for. Haha

I will take a look at the speakers though.
Minimal, simple, improvement over stock, no worries about frying the amp or blowing speakers. sound quality is high, thump is not.
 

Gonz

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Another way you can make your life simpler is to run a 5-channel amp. You'd have 4 channels running 75w each, for example, then a 5th channel that puts out much more, designed for a sub.
Here's one, for example, that puts out 75w x 4 channels, then 350w on the 5th channel for your sub.

I'm no expert, however I have run complete systems in 4 different vehicles I own, and I think you would be fine with 75w powering an 80w speaker and probably a 60w speaker as well. The speaker impedance (ohms) will automatically tell the amp how much power to send to it just in case you get confused seeing amps that say 75w at 4ohms, and 125w at 2ohms.
 

Jebiruph

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I did come across impedance matching and maximum power transfer, but by your question, I am guessing I don't fully grasp the concept.
I assumed 4-ohm speakers across the board would require me to have matching, 4-ohm amp that would equal out to the same wattage between .9 and 1.2 of the RMS.
Example: 100W channel @ 4ohm, 4-25W (4ohm) speakers, theoretically could be wired in series.
I am looking for a worry-free system, that I won't need to worry about. (speaker damage, overheated amp, etc)
I don't need to rattle my neighbors house, but I do want something with a little extra.

One of many setups I looked at below. this is not my final decision, but it's an option I reviewed.
Focal Access 165 A3 (3-way component)
Locations
6.5" Knee
4" Dash-replacing factory
1" Above 4" on the dash
4-ohm, 80w nominal power

Focal RSE 165 (2-way component)
Located - Soundbar
6.5", 1" - 4-ohm, 50w nominal power

SSV/Metra Pods, AMP Pro
This is only one scenario I looked at. I stopped looking at JBL because they are 3-ohm, and that confused me even more.
I view this as needing 2 channels at 75w. Not ideal, but would work.
An amp similar to JL Audio XD/4v2 --- (4-Channel Amp - 75 watt RMS x4 at 4-ohm)

Mono amp to power the sub below
8" Rock Fos P2D4-8
Dual 4-ohm voice coil. If wired in parallel, I can find a 2ohm mono amp.

Once I figure this out, I can make it work. Understanding how it all needs to work is my issue.
I didn't mean to be critical or questioning of what you are doing, I just couldn't tell from your original post if you were aware of the concepts and thought you would be interested.

I'm not too concerned about it, I didn't impedance match my replacement speakers for my 5" radio. My replacements for the 8 ohm tweeters are rated at 3 ohms, so I've gone from 4 ohms impedance to less than 3 ohms per channel. The lower impedance means that the power out of the radio will be skewed to higher amps with lower voltage, but I am not running at max volume all the time, so I think I'm ok. Plus my Infinity speakers have a high efficiency rating, so they produce more sound with less power.
 
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ToPar9

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I didn't mean to be critical or questioning of what you are doing, I just couldn't tell from your original post if you were aware of the concepts and thought you would be interested.

I'm not too concerned about it, I didn't impedance match my replacement speakers for my 5" radio. My replacements for the 8 ohm tweeters are rated at 3 ohms, so I've gone from 4 ohms impedance to less than 3 ohms per channel. The lower impedance means that the power out of the radio will be skewed to higher amps with lower voltage, but I am not running at max volume all the time, so I think I'm ok. Plus my Infinity speakers have a high efficiency rating, so they produce more sound with less power.
You are good man! I didn't think you were critical at all. I am here to learn. I was only explaining my thought process and wanted someone to confirm, tell me I am headed down the right path but need to fix X,Y,Z, or tell me yo, WTF are you doing?
I enjoy learning new things. I have instilled in my kids to "Learn Something New Everyday".
Thanks again, and you can say whatever you want to kick my butt into the right direction.
 

Gonz

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Another option would be to either call or chat with a vendor, such as Crutchfield or another reputable one. They're really good at making recommendations, especially if you're able to explain what it is that you're looking to do. If you were to go on their chat, tell them the make/model of vehicle you have, then explain that you want to get the SSV adapters for the soundbar and the Metra pods for the knee speakers, so you can run 6.5's in those places, then they could help you design and put everything together with whatever budget you give them.

Some days, I wonder if that would be a fun side gig for me, I really enjoy all this stuff and maybe should have considered a different career (25 years ago...)
 
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ToPar9

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Have you considered these for your soundbar?
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_091PS165F/Focal-Performance-PS-165F.html?tp=106

It's a little jump in price from the RSE that you're looking at, but the RMS ratings would match really well with the 3-way you're looking at for up front. I am in the middle of installing them in my soundbar right now, and have their equivalent 3-way going in up front. Run off a 75x4 at 4ohms amp.
edited to add: they're on sale right now, so a big improvement in speaker at a really good price.
Gonz ...
I've never heard of Focal, until this search began. I feel like top end Focal's are very good, but as you drop down "tiers", they become increasingly poor quality. I am not sure where I stand with purchasing all Focal's. I priced out everything from an all high-end Morel setup, down to Infinity/budget speakers from Crutchfield. Pairing them to an amp with multiple different RMS is my biggest question.
Here is my dilemma. Do I spend 300 a pair, dump 1500-2k thump around town, and go back to the 90's when I had Infinity everything paired up with 2 kicker 12's in my little Ford Ranger. Or, do I do the right thing, improve sound quality, give it a little extra volume?
I ask so many questions, because the amp back in the day would get so hot sitting behind the armrest I hated to drive more than an hour.
Obviously they didn't pair my setup correctly and I ended up removing the amp and 12's.
Long story short, I got F'd on my setup that I spent waaaaay too much money for.
 
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ToPar9

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Another option would be to either call or chat with a vendor, such as Crutchfield or another reputable one. They're really good at making recommendations, especially if you're able to explain what it is that you're looking to do. If you were to go on their chat, tell them the make/model of vehicle you have, then explain that you want to get the SSV adapters for the soundbar and the Metra pods for the knee speakers, so you can run 6.5's in those places, then they could help you design and put everything together with whatever budget you give them.

Some days, I wonder if that would be a fun side gig for me, I really enjoy all this stuff and maybe should have considered a different career (25 years ago...)
I thought about that, reaching out. I wasn't sure if it was a, "we will help as long as you buy everything, right now," type of deal.
I will definitely reach out and find others opinions. I really appreciate it.
It's never to late to turn a hobby into something more!
 

Jebiruph

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Here's something I haven't seen mentioned for a while. The Metra 72-7902 speaker harness is wired backwards with + to -. When used as is, it puts the 3.5' speakers out of phase with the 4" speakers and sounds terrible. Here's how I fixed mine. Instead of opening the connector and swapping wires around, I cut and soldered the wires so I would have a clear visual indicator that the adapter was fixed.
speaker adapter fixed.jpg
 
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ToPar9

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Here's something I haven't seen mentioned for a while. The Metra 72-7902 speaker harness is wired backwards with + to -. When used as is, it puts the 3.5' speakers out of phase with the 4" speakers and sounds terrible. Here's how I fixed mine. Instead of opening the connector and swapping wires around, I cut and soldered the wires so I would have a clear visual indicator that the adapter was fixed.
I appreciate the info. I might need to hold off on going to big because of the craziness in the world. Cutbacks, furloughs, pay cuts,
I am a bit on the nervous side at the moment.
I need a sponsor to send me some gear to keep me occupied should this happen. My industry is based on travel for the most part.
I might pick up some mid-range speakers to help out for the time being. Probably not, but possibly.
 

                           
























































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