Sound out of the rear end of a Dana 44

[jac04]

Dynatrac banned?

No, way a life.

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[grimmjeeper]

Dynatrac banned? Wow, I didn’t know that. Interesting enough though, their findings are spot on with what the dealer found and has told me. The dealer techs said exactly the same thing that Dynatrac mentions in the video.

Not Dynatrac. There's another logo in the preview of the video.

 

[FJL40]

Not Dynatrac. There's another logo in the preview of the video.

So, does that mean what Dynatrac was stating in a video posted by [Banned Site] is false? I mean, I am not defending [Banned Site]…but is what Dynatrac saying wrong or incorrect?

 

[DavidArmen]

He has a point. Don’t let the banned site muddy dyntrac’s reputation just because they are in his video.

 

[grimmjeeper]

So, does that mean what Dynatrac was stating in a video posted by [Banned Site] is false? I mean, I am not defending [Banned Site]…but is what Dynatrac saying wrong or incorrect?

I haven't watched the video.

I believe the person who said that credibility was lost said it specifically because it was a video by [Banned Site]. And most likely, you'd be better off finding other more reputable video producers.

Again, the guy himself has documented credibility issues (search Eddie Oh Jeep and judge for yourself).

But just because the guy has a less than stellar reputation doesn't mean he's wrong in this video. Just that you should cross check it with other sources to be sure.

 

[word302]

Dynatrac banned? Wow, I didn’t know that. Interesting enough though, their findings are spot on with what the dealer found and has told me. The dealer techs said exactly the same thing that Dynatrac mentions in the video.

I don't argue that the tail bearing in the JL isn't as strong as a roller bearing. Your argument was that it was cheaper and between that and a "cheaper" crush sleeve is why your tail bearings failed. I would argue that it cost significantly more to engineer a new type of bearing to help save on fuel. I have no idea what you're talking about with a "cheaper" crush sleeve and how that even affects tail bearing wear or longevity. A crush sleeve is a crush sleeve. It's simply there to make it possible to set pinion bearing pre-load. It either does it's job or it doesn't. For the record, I haven't seen one of these tail bearings fail unless pinion pre-load is set improperly. The tolerances are much tighter than with a normal roller bearing so it's much easier to go beyond spec when setting up. I'm not a fan of the ball-bearing but they seem to do fine if set up properly. As far as Jeep techs knowing anything? You just lost a little more credibility. Of course Dynatrac is going to say the stock axles are inferior and everyone should buy new axles from them.

 

[FJL40]

I don't argue that the tail bearing in the JL isn't as strong as a roller bearing. Your argument was that it was cheaper and between that and a "cheaper" crush sleeve is why your tail bearings failed. I would argue that it cost significantly more to engineer a new type of bearing to help save on fuel. I have no idea what you're talking about with a "cheaper" crush sleeve and how that even affects tail bearing wear or longevity. A crush sleeve is a crush sleeve. It's simply there to make it possible to set pinion bearing pre-load. It either does it's job or it doesn't. For the record, I haven't seen one of these tail bearings fail unless pinion pre-load is set improperly. The tolerances are much tighter than with a normal roller bearing so it's much easier to go beyond spec when setting up. I'm not a fan of the ball-bearing but they seem to do fine if set up properly. As far as Jeep techs knowing anything? You just lost a little more credibility. Of course Dynatrac is going to say the stock axles are inferior and everyone should buy new axles from them.

Cheaper as in material difference. What I was told by a “star tech” is that Jeep went with a softer metal crush bearing (compared to previous gens) to make installation much easier on the assembly line, apparently they were having one too many improper installations of the crush bearing that caused delays in the assembly. As for the tail-bearing, the ball bearing design CANNOT handle the same load as a cylindrical style roller bearing, this is a fact and when you are putting alot of load on it, will cause the pinion shaft to move slightly. Put the two (inferior tail bearing and softer crush bearing) togther in the equation, and it completely makes sense why a large majority of JL’s are having rear end noises and eventually need replacement. I had two, yes TWO defective BRAND NEW Dana 44’s replaced a month apart from each other on my 1400 mile JLR. Both had the exact same issue like almost every 2018+ owner. The difference being is I actually care about the noises my car makes and the “mall crawlers” can’t differentiate one noise from another until it’s too late. If the Jeep techs told me this and no one else, I would take it with a grain of salt, but to have a star tech, Dynatrac’s visual demo, and a reputable shop in my area say the EXACT same thing??? Come man, face reality….it’s a design flaw and a terrible business decision made!

 

[word302]

Cheaper as in material difference. What I was told by a “star tech” is that Jeep went with a softer metal crush bearing (compared to previous gens) to make installation much easier on the assembly line, apparently they were having one too many improper installations of the crush bearing that caused delays in the assembly. As for the tail-bearing, the ball bearing design CANNOT handle the same load as a cylindrical style roller bearing, this is a fact and when you are putting alot of load on it, will cause the pinion shaft to move slightly. Put the two (inferior tail bearing and softer crush bearing) togther in the equation, and it completely makes sense why a large majority of JL’s are having rear end noises and eventually need replacement. I had two, yes TWO defective BRAND NEW Dana 44’s replaced a month apart from each other on my 1400 mile JLR. Both had the exact same issue like almost every 2018+ owner. The difference being is I actually care about the noises my car makes and the “mall crawlers” can’t differentiate one noise from another until it’s too late. If the Jeep techs told me this and no one else, I would take it with a grain of salt, but to have a star tech, Dynatrac’s visual demo, and a reputable shop in my area say the EXACT same thing??? Come man, face reality….it’s a design flaw and a terrible business decision made!

Do you actually think this "softer crush sleeve" gives after initial install allowing pre-load to change? You obviously haven't done any differential work on these. The tail bearing carries substantially less load than the head bearing. Like I said, it's not as robust as a roller bearing, but inn the vast majority of cases it does just fine. "The same issue like almost every 2018+ owner"? Losing credibility once again.

 

[FJL40]

Do you actually think this "softer crush sleeve" gives after initial install allowing pre-load to change? You obviously haven't done any differential work on these. The tail bearing carries substantially less load than the head bearing. Like I said, it's not as robust as a roller bearing, but inn the vast majority of cases it does just fine. "The same issue like almost every 2018+ owner"? Losing credibility once again.

Criticize all you want. The last thing im going to do is get into a debate with someone on a Jeep forum about Jeeps. I’m providing factual personal experience with documented records of information to current and potential owners so they don’t make financial mistakes now and in the future. Rather than give bland, generic, and disinformation responses such as “losing credibility”, “have you done differential work?”, and laughing emoji’s….why don’t you provide actual real world examples.

 

[word302]

Criticize all you want. The last thing im going to do is get into a debate with someone on a Jeep forum about Jeeps. I’m providing factual personal experience with documented records of information to current and potential owners so they don’t make financial mistakes now and in the future. Rather than give bland, generic, and disinformation responses such as “losing credibility”, “have you done differential work?”, and laughing emoji’s….why don’t you provide actual real world examples.

Did you read anything I wrote? I have provided fact-based information while you have provided misleading opinion based solely on your own experience. I have seen 2 of these tail bearings fail. In both cases the pinion pre-load was over the required specification. Again, you're not wrong that roller bearings are stronger. You haven't provided any proof that these new tail bearings aren't "strong enough". The reality is that none of us know yet. They haven't been in service long enough. The vast majority of them are doing just fine. You implied that Jeep cheaped out on this design. That just simply isn't true.

 

[FJL40]

Did you read anything I wrote? I have provided fact-based information while you have provided misleading opinion based solely on your own experience. I have seen 2 of these tail bearings fail. In both cases the pinion pre-load was over the required specification. Again, you're not wrong that roller bearings are stronger. You haven't provided any proof that these new tail bearings aren't "strong enough". The reality is that none of us know yet. They haven't been in service long enough. The vast majority of them are doing just fine. You implied that Jeep cheaped out on this design. That just simply isn't true.

If since 2018 until now isn’t long enough, I don’t know what to tell you any more. I think you’re misunderstanding my “cheaper” remark. You do realize I mean cheaper as in cheaper quality and not necessarily cheaper cost, right? There are multiple threads of people hearing whirring sounds while accelerating and decelerating. This is exactly the behavior of failing pinion bearings (carrier and tail) that lead to wear on pinion and ring gears. My point about the cheaper quality crush sleeve is that because they changed to a softer bearing metal on the sleeve, it wears out quicker than the previous material they used for many years before. The crush sleeve is NOT designed to be a load bearing, but if there is play in the pinion shaft that runs through it, it absolutely will wear and it will do so much quicker because it is a cheaper quality material (aka softer crush sleeve). The tail bearing failure by wearing prematurely causes a domino effect by then changing the tolerances of how the pinion rides inside not only the carrier bearing, but eventually the crush sleeve. Same concept of a rod on a crank….if the bearing between is out of spec, it will wear out the bearing….it’s not designed to touch metal to metal. I have records from the dealership that I will post on here soon. I saw the rear end they removed and saw the wear. This happened twice! Technically three times because the initial rear end was the factory one on my brand new JL! The thing is, most dealerships play the “it’s a Jeep, they all make noises” tune, and people just move on and learn the hard and expensive way when the vehicle is past it’s warranty time. For those who don’t care and plan to install beefier axles, fine! But for the rest of us who spend $56k on a vehicle for daily use, it’s not right that Jeep ignores this.

 

[word302]

If since 2018 until now isn’t long enough, I don’t know what to tell you any more. I think you’re misunderstanding my “cheaper” remark. You do realize I mean cheaper as in cheaper quality and not necessarily cheaper cost, right? There are multiple threads of people hearing whirring sounds while accelerating and decelerating. This is exactly the behavior of failing pinion bearings (carrier and tail) that lead to wear on pinion and ring gears. My point about the cheaper quality crush sleeve is that because they changed to a softer bearing metal on the sleeve, it wears out quicker than the previous material they used for many years before. The crush sleeve is NOT designed to be a load bearing, but if there is play in the pinion shaft that runs through it, it absolutely will wear and it will do so much quicker because it is a cheaper quality material (aka softer crush sleeve). The tail bearing failure by wearing prematurely causes a domino effect by then changing the tolerances of how the pinion rides inside not only the carrier bearing, but eventually the crush sleeve. Same concept of a rod on a crank….if the bearing between is out of spec, it will wear out the bearing….it’s not designed to touch metal to metal. I have records from the dealership that I will post on here soon. I saw the rear end they removed and saw the wear. This happened twice! Technically three times because the initial rear end was the factory one on my brand new JL! The thing is, most dealerships play the “it’s a Jeep, they all make noises” tune, and people just move on and learn the hard and expensive way when the vehicle is past it’s warranty time. For those who don’t care and plan to install beefier axles, fine! But for the rest of us who spend $56k on a vehicle for daily use, it’s not right that Jeep ignores this.

See this is why I keep giving you crap man. You simply don't know what you're talking about. Crush sleeves don't wear out. There is nothing riding on them. They simply provide the resistance for setting bearing pre-load. Carrier bearings are completely different than pinion bearings and have nothing to do with this conversation. There are a couple threads about this specific type of rear end noise, almost every one of them is due to a bad re-gear. I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but to say this is a wide-spread issue is just simply not true.

And no, until we start seeing a trend in failures and thousands of JLs hitting 100k miles we won't know if this is truly an issue. Currently it is not. Numbers mean something. If a majority of Jeeps were truly experiencing bearing failure there would be a recall. The noise doesn't just go away, it would soon lead to catastrophic failure. That just simply isn't happening.

 

[FJL40]

See this is why I keep giving you crap man. You simply don't know what you're talking about. Crush sleeves don't wear out. There is nothing riding on them. They simply provide the resistance for setting bearing pre-load. Carrier bearings are completely different than pinion bearings and have nothing to do with this conversation. There are a couple threads about this specific type of rear end noise, almost every one of them is due to a bad re-gear. I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but to say this is a wide-spread issue is just simply not true.

And no, until we start seeing a trend in failures and thousands of JLs hitting 100k miles we won't know if this is truly an issue. Currently it is not. Numbers mean something. If a majority of Jeeps were truly experiencing bearing failure there would be a recall. The noise doesn't just go away, it would soon lead to catastrophic failure. That just simply isn't happening.

So are you saying that the crush sleeve (under any failure throughout the rear differential including; incorrect backlash, worn carrier bearings, and worn tail bearing) absolutely cannot and will not touch the pinion shaft and wear down? If so, what would happen in a scenario where the tail bearing and carrier bearing would fail and the pinion shaft is just spinning inside of the crush sleeve? Because the crush sleeve isn’t designed to spin in the carrier case right? So somethings gotta give. A pinion shaft spinning inside of a sleeve must have a point of failure (i.e, too tight, not enough lubrication, etc…). Please explain what would happen.

 

[word302]

So are you saying that the crush sleeve (under any failure throughout the rear differential including; incorrect backlash, worn carrier bearings, and worn tail bearing) absolutely cannot and will not touch the pinion shaft and wear down? If so, what would happen in a scenario where the tail bearing and carrier bearing would fail and the pinion shaft is just spinning inside of the crush sleeve? Because the crush sleeve isn’t designed to spin in the carrier case right? So somethings gotta give. A pinion shaft spinning inside of a sleeve must have a point of failure (i.e, too tight, not enough lubrication, etc…). Please explain what would happen.

Dude just stop. The crush sleeve spins with the pinion shaft along with the inner race from both bearings. They are all moving together married by interference (pressed) fit. There is no wear point.

 

[FJL40]

Dude just stop. The crush sleeve spins with the pinion shaft along with the inner race from both bearings. They are all moving together married by interference (pressed) fit. There is no wear point.

You didn’t answer my question….can the crush sleeve (under any condition) wear down from the pinion shaft?

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