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Some non Jeepers seriously think they are invincible in a Snow Storm when in 4WD or AWD

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631_Islander

631_Islander

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Yeah don't get me wrong, i'm not saying the cars suck. I loved my M5. I'm just saying that this idea that "German Engineering" is somehow superior is a bunch of uneducated BS. The only real difference is that the Germans do not recognize the fact that in engineering, the simpler solution is always the better one. They tend to believe that complexity = quality. To add to that, the German cars are barely even engineered by Germans anymore.
German cars are engineered by a lot of companies based in 🇯🇵🇯🇵🇯🇵 these days! They only assemble them in Germany
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Speed and tires are the most important when driving on snow/ice roads. Your tires are gonna allow you to have better traction, in the case you start sliding a bit a good snow tire would allow you to regain control of the vehicle. AWD, 4X4, helps a bit but the tire is the most important factor on the highway. If you don't have winter tires but A/T tires and AWD or 4x4 you can drop the tire pressure and it helps a lot. I would NEVER drive my corolla in winter before getting my snow tires on, I tried a few times and it was literally impossible. That's why a lot of folk in southern states have so many accidents on 1 inch snow roads, it almost doesn't matter how slow you are going!. You have to drive incredibly slow, and if there is a good amount of snow you will get stuck because of lack of momentum.

Then with speed, it is all about the vehicle stability. The less stable your vehicle is, the slower you have to drive, because any turning is gonna be amplified. 2 door jeeps are perhaps the worst in this category, and 4 door jeeps are not so bad but also not the best. So please, drive your Jeep slowly. Even if it feels safe at higher speeds, think about it, the chances that something unexpected happen when there's ice and/or snow are much higher. Would you rather spin out of control at 20~30mph or at 60mph? There is a misconception that Jeeps are good on snow. And they are, when there's a ton of snow on the road, or on low speed rural roads, you wont get stuck. But as soon as you get on a freeway, or any higher speed highway, specially with a lot of curves, they are not like any other car. Please drop the tire pressure, turn on 4WD and drive slowly. Let people pass you. And don't get frustrated by sloth drivers, they might be inexperienced, old, or don't have their winter tires yet. Pressuring them is only going to cause an accident.
 

cosmokenney

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Was dropping my mom off at work early morning today at around 5:30 here on Long Island. It was blinding Snow, Sleet with significant ground accumulations, a biting wind and even worst wind chills. On top of that it is still fully dark out.

I get on the single lane road that goes straight to her work place. The Road is coated in a thick layer of Snow with a very thin layer of Sleet underneath. Speed Limit is 40MPH (65 kmph for my fellow non American or non British Jeepers). I put my JLUR in 4Hi and take it easy going at about 30 to 35MPH (50 to about 55kmph). Besides me, there are some Pickup Trucks who are doing the same speed as me (a Tacoma, a 1500, a Titan and a Jeep Gladiator). Usually we can go about 50MPH on that road (80 kmph).

While I am driving, this little prick in a brand new Audi A4 AWD station wagon is rapidly closing the gap behind me and then starts tail gating in blinding snow! He had the gall to start flickering his beams at me and asking me to speed up. When the road opened up and became a two lane, he cuts me and two Pickup Trucks off while honking his horn. Just near my mom's work place, the douche ends up spinning out of control and is stuck in a snow bank. I drop my mom off and then go back just five minutes later The guy is out there waiting for someone to tow him out.

While I wanted to pull down my window and flip him off, I felt bad and stopped; as did a fella in a JKU Sahara who looked like a gentleman in his early to mid 50s. The JKU Sahara owner had a tow rope on him and the two of us helped get the guy out of the snow bank. It had become obvious to us that the poor soul has no idea how to even hook up a tow rope. So I put helped put the Rope on the Audi while the JKU Sahara owner connected to his Jeep and got him out. The guy looked just extremely embarrassed as he know I am same JLU Rubicon owner he had cut off just some minutes ago. Afterwards I called him out for cutting me off in front of the JKU Sahara owner; who begrudgingly told him that having an AWD in a Luxury German Car does not make you invincible. He told him that if Jeeps and heavier vehicles are taking it easy, he always fails to understand why people in their Audis or BMWs or AWD Nissans think they are God.

Don't know about others but I have also experienced the same. Our fellow Jeepers and many Pickup Truck drivers tend to still take it very easy in the Snow as we know what can happen. It is always that one idiot in a BWM or Mercedes or Audi or Lexus that thinks they are God in the Snow with their computer controlled AWD system. This is despite a Jeep or a Pickup Truck being a lot more capable in inclement weather versus these AWD cars. Wonder when these folks will learn???

Sidenote: The JLU Factory LED Headlamps are an absolute disaster in the Snow as there is significant reflection from the surface. Hope I get used to that over time. Otherwise, I love my Jeep!
The best part of this story is going to be when you get a bill in the mail for repairs for damage to the Audi that the driver claims you made while helping pull him out.

BTW since I ski a lot I am always driving up I80 into Truckee. On stormy days I drop the speed like you described. I just let the bay area guys in their euro cars fly by and laugh because I know I'm going to see them again. In the snow bank. I can't tell you how many times I've seen it happen.
If this happens on a one-lane road I just stop and wave the prick by.
 
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The best part of this story is going to be when you get a bill in the mail for repairs for damage to the Audi that the driver claims you made while helping pull him out.

BTW since I ski a lot I am always driving up I80 into Truckee. On stormy days I drop the speed like you described. I just let the bay area guys in their euro cars fly by and laugh because I know I'm going to see them again. In the snow bank. I can't tell you how many times I've seen it happen.
If this happens on a one-lane road I just stop and wave the prick by.
That is ok. I will show the dealership what this idiot did via my Dashcam video. Then they will know for sure why his alignment is out of whack.
 

Cartage1

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As a guy who drives in adverse winter driving conditions for a living, I can tell you this is simply not true.

Modern all-wheel-drive systems are fully integrated with various “anti-skid” electronic intervention systems. The German luxury cars have some of the most effective electronic intervention systems made. Those systems, together with ability to deliver weighted traction on both ends of the vehicle, are extremely stabilizing in motion, and extremely helpful in all phases of acceleration and deceleration as long as the wheels are rotating. Obviously, these systems are of no help whatsoever if you’ve managed to completely lock up all the wheels. Also, obviously, they have limits — but the limits are truly extraordinary when you’re trained to approach them.

I drive an AWD Hemi-powered Charger for work. My Jeep is more traction-capable only where more clearance is required, but on icy roads with only an inch or three of snow on top, the Charger performs better at anything over about 20 mph.

I’m driving my third AWD Charger. My first miled-out with over 140,000 miles on it. The current Charger has 114,000 miles on it and is due to be replaced by my last (hopefully) in February. We do incredible things with these cars, often at considerable speed on icy rural highways. What we”re able to do is amazing, to me anyway, when contrasted with what we used to be able to do with two-wheel drive versions of the same vehicle.

I think our success is 60% vehicle, 40% training, and an extra 100% God riding on our shoulders — but we can consistently run at speeds that simply were not possible in any of the 2wd vehicles we drove for years.

I get sent to help idiots who lose control of their vehicles and crash all day every day. No vehicle brands are exempt. I also routinely have all manner of four-wheel-drive vehicles drive past me when I’m working icy crash sites, often after passing a series of multiple crashes over a few miles, and they are STILL ten or fifteen mph over the posted speed limit. People can be surrounded by object lessons, with glistening four inch icicles hanging off the bridges, cable-barriers, and signs, and STILL not get it.

As I am reminded every day, you can’t fix stupid.

91B9E8C7-E808-456A-8C05-CA10F8F19966.jpeg
Whaler27, a "Constable" perhaps? Just a guess as Ohio's finest patrol our highways and byways in Chargers as well. If so, thank you for your service .
 

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A while back I had two California SUVs pass me on Hwy 97, a north-south two lane highway in central Oregon. I’d been traveling north at 45 mph with a loaded 4x4 farm truck about 50 yards in front of me, and a second loaded 4x4 farm truck about the same distance in front of him. The highway was covered in hard-packed snow, with ten inches of new snow recently plowed, and snow banks that were between two and three feet tall on the road shoulders. As the blizzard returned the two farm trucks and I reduced our speed to about 35 to 40 and increased our following distances. All was well until I saw two sets of headlights closing from the rear at about 65 mph. Both vehicles caught and passed me quickly, following each other closely and ducking only briefly into the intervals between the vehicles in front of them.

Ten or fifteen minutes later the farm trucks each activated their left blinkers as they drifted left to avoid the idiots who had passed us earlier. They had the ability to continue on, but I didn’t. The Lexus, which had been in the lead, was buried in a ditch, with snow half way up its doors, about 25 feet off the road. The Escalade was sideways in the road, with the driver standing next to it holding a length of rope that was completely inadequate for recovery. Even if it had been adequate, he could never have gotten the traction necessary to recover the buried Lexus. Even if he could have gotten traction, he would have been pulling/driving right across the opposing lane... Incredible.

I was a complete idiot when I was 18... most of us were.... (that’s how young men end up in the infantry.. :LOL:..) I did some incredibly stupid stuff, and I still regularly disappoint myself, but I was never THAT stupid.)
 
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I was a complete when I was 18... most of us were.... (that’s how young men end up in the infantry.. :LOL:..) I did some incredibly stupid stuff, and I still regularly disappoint myself, but I was never THAT stupid.)
When it comes to stupid things, let me give you one I did (hold my beer).

Back in Feb 2015, I was driving to Boston with four of my coworkers from Newark, NJ in a rental Ford Fusion. On the Mass Pike, I was doing a 90 in a 65 when a cop car tail gated me and passed me. Stupid me got on the same lane as the Cop Car and started doing same speed as him (about 95). Needless to say I got pulled over. The Cop comes to the front passenger side and starts yelling at me for driving recklessly. He did not give me a ticket but yelled at me enough to piss me off. Stupid and younger me got pissed and chased the Cop Car on the Highway! You had to see my Supervisor. This is a gentleman who is an extremely calm, family oriented/Church going husband and father of three adult and late teenage children. He laid into me and cursed me out for chasing a Cop who has a gun!! Needless to say my annual review that Fiscal Year did not go very good as chasing a Cop Car was a little too much for him to handle. When I got a little more mature, me and him used to have a good laugh on that one.

(God Bless his soul as he passed away in 2018 after a long battle with cancer at the age of 51). I was 28/single when this happened and am now 34/married father of a two year old girl.
 

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When it comes to stupid things, let me give you one I did (hold my beer).

Back in Feb 2015, I was driving to Boston with four of my coworkers from Newark, NJ in a rental Ford Fusion. On the Mass Pike, I was doing a 90 in a 65 when a cop car tail gated me and passed me. Stupid me got on the same lane as the Cop Car and started doing same speed as him (about 95). Needless to say I got pulled over. The Cop comes to the front passenger side and starts yelling at me for driving recklessly. He did not give me a ticket but yelled at me enough to piss me off. Stupid and younger me got pissed and chased the Cop Car on the Highway! You had to see my Supervisor. This is a gentleman who is an extremely calm, family oriented/Church going husband and father of three adult and late teenage children. He laid into me and cursed me out for chasing a Cop who has a gun!! Needless to say my annual review that Fiscal Year did not go very good as chasing a Cop Car was a little too much for him to handle. When I got a little more mature, me and him used to have a good laugh on that one.

(God Bless his soul as he passed away in 2018 after a long battle with cancer at the age of 51). I was 28/single when this happened and am now 34/married father of a two year old girl.
Good story.

From time to time a cop will be accelerating to close on a radar target ahead only to have somebody decide that chasing the cop is a good idea. Since the cop is traveling at a speed sufficient to close on the target, anybody keeping up with the cop is traveling faster that the target so, if it's just a speeding violation the cop was concerned about, it's the guy coming from behind who gets the speeding award. :like:

You'd be amazed by how many people say something like., "I was just following you!" Incredibly, some folks don't stop to think that there must be statutory authorization for cops to speed in certain situations -- so they figure a cop won't write them a ticket for chasing them.

Similarly, there are times when cops get a priority call -- a code three request for back-up, for example... For reasons known only to those who do it, there are people who will chase the cop, often at speeds in excess of 100 miles per hour. If the distant crisis is averted, and the request for assistance is cancelled, the cop will disengage and be left with people chasing him at extreme speed. Those people get spectacular awards -- the kind that result in automatic license suspension, even in Oregon.
 

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Yada yada yada..... Be honest. Most cops speed just because they have no consequences for it.
 

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My dad always said..... “It’s 4 wheel drive not 4 wheel stop!” Or as I like to say.... “it’s 4 wheel drive and 4 wheel slide unless you know what your doing”. In other words..... SLOW THE CR&P DOWN!!!!
Amen bro!!!!!!
 

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Yeah don't get me wrong, i'm not saying the cars suck. I loved my M5. I'm just saying that this idea that "German Engineering" is somehow superior is a bunch of uneducated BS. The only real difference is that the Germans do not recognize the fact that in engineering, the simpler solution is always the better one. They tend to believe that complexity = quality. To add to that, the German cars are barely even engineered by Germans anymore.
Germany has a very well-earned reputation for innovation in engineering. That comparatively small country has made extraordinary contributions to automotive and aeronautical engineering for close to 100 years, and they beat us to the punch on lots of critical technological developments, including rocket propulsion, modern refrigeration, tactical jet aircraft, fuel injection, and antilock brakes on motorcycles to name just a few. (My 1989 BMW K100RS had fantastic ABS brakes when other motorcycle manufacturers were laughing at the concept. Now they all have it. ) Almost everything Germany built was superior to almost everything we built in WW2. I could go on, but I’ll spare you — but it’s hardly “ignorant” to respect the German engineering tradition.
 
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In NW Montana, most of the folks put up their trucks and jeeps to drive AWD Subarus because they are the only vehicle to have in a seriously slippery, snowy, icy winter.
 

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We had a few Subarus that were fun as heck in the snow; Crosstreks were the most fun and never got stuck or slipped when driving fast.
Yep we have a manual that uses Symmetrical at 50/50. Fantastic and very predictable with snows. Just like a rally car. But def prefer the Rubi for deep snow. Both are really good actually. As everybody has their own opinion.

Germany has a very well-earned reputation for innovation in engineering. That comparatively small country has made extraordinary contributions to automotive and aeronautical engineering for close to 100 years, and they beat us to the punch on lots of critical technological developments, including rocket propulsion, modern refrigeration, tactical jet aircraft, fuel injection, and antilock brakes on motorcycles to name just a few. (My 1989 BMW K100RS had fantastic ABS brakes when other motorcycle manufacturers were laughing at the concept. Now they all have it. ) Almost everything Germany built was superior to almost everything we built in WW2. I could go on, but I’ll spare you — but it’s hardly “ignorant” to respect the Germn engineering tradition.
Yep we also have a 85 Benz TD with ABS. Was an option since 78. TD is built like a tank and still runs like a top. Way over engineered but that is what they did back then. Def was designed to be run flat out. Which is what we do when safe. Italian tune-up. Is even designated collector and vintage class. 😎

Also had a 430 V8 - but the build quality was much less engineered. Went like a bat out of hell though at speed.
 

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Germany has a very well-earned reputation for innovation in engineering. That comparatively small country has made extraordinary contributions to automotive and aeronautical engineering for close to 100 years, and they beat us to the punch on lots of critical technological developments, including rocket propulsion, modern refrigeration, tactical jet aircraft, fuel injection, and antilock brakes on motorcycles to name just a few.
I don't disagree, never did. What I said was that the idea that German engineering is somehow naturally superior is BS. Germany has brought us many great technological innovations, but so has Japan, and so has China, and so has the good 'ole US of A. Unfortunately these days their cars are nothing terribly special. Both Japanese and American engines outshine German offerings, and the rest of the cars are so homologous that you can't even call them "German" anymore. It used to be that with a German car you might not get particularly high quality, great styling, or good value...but you would get incredible performance and innovation. These days all you get is overcomplexity and frequent dealer visits for issues they tell you are "how it's supposed to work".
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