Some non Jeepers seriously think they are invincible in a Snow Storm when in 4WD or AWD

[Whaler27]

We have approximately 40,000 crashes per year in Oregon. The overwhelming majority — almost all — are due to human errors. Vehicles are much safer than they have ever been, but our fatality numbers are climbing. I think that‘s because people are driving faster, while also following at closer distances and playing with cell phones. That’s a fatal combination, particularly in Oregon, where a growing percentage of our population is also stoned. (Oregonians recently decriminalized ALL drug use, including meth, heroin, and LSD, so it’s going to get much worse... I’m just hoping to stay alive and healthy until retirement, when I won’t have to drive on Oregon roads at all!)

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[TheRaven]

Components may be the same, but programming is not.

The programming is specific to the vehicle application, but done by the same programmers.

the BMW would not allow you to exceed a power input where the vehicle could maintain traction. That’s not true of our Chargers. If we don’t moderate power and control input we can easily bust them into a yaw making the turn at the end.

Yes that's by design. Same with Cadillac and Lexus. Stability control manners are different for a premium luxury sedan than a mainstream muscle-sedan. Both my M5 and CTS-V had different "levels" you could choose depending on what you were doing. The M5 had three and the CTS-V had five. It ranged from the "point-and-shoot" full-on mode that you describe to the "Hennessey Viper" full-off mode that should have required the driver to sit on a towel. Mainstream cars generally have ON and OFF. Their systems are designed simply to make sure you don't do anything dangerously stupid.

 

[Buckster]

UH...NO. Extremely no. Definitely overpriced...and overengineered DOES NOT equal quality. As a former BMW enthusiast and career engineer, I can tell you that German engineering is some of the most mind-boggling work on earth. Furthermore, that headlight being used as an example in this thread is engineered in Japan and made in China, right alongside the Lexus and Cadillac headlights.

Opinions vary - I've also had a BMW and it seemed engineering approaches were vastly different (from a DIY viewpoint). Actually enjoyed working on my Audis and hated working on the BMW.

 

[631_Islander]

We have approximately 40,000 crashes per year in Oregon. The overwhelming majority — almost all — are due to human errors. Vehicles are much safer than they have ever been, but our fatality numbers are climbing. I think that‘s because people are driving faster, while also following at closer distances and playing with cell phones. That’s a fatal combination, particularly in Oregon, where a growing percentage of our population is also stoned. (Oregonians recently decriminalized ALL drug use, including meth, heroin, and LSD, so it’s going to get much worse... I’m just hoping to stay alive and healthy until retirement, when I won’t have to drive on Oregon roads at all!)

Damn....and I had thought them occupying Portland was bad lol

 

[Whaler27]

Damn....and I had thought them occupying Portland was bad lol

We have imported a whole new level of stupid... We’re happily leading the charge toward the abyss!

A very large proportion of the people I encounter upside down, in life and in vehicles, are transplants. I have to assume we’ve become a magnate for the thinking-impaired from other states, particularly California and, most recently, New York and New Jersey. I don’t understand it, but in some parts of Oregon, including Portland and Bend in particular, Oregonians are a very small and declining part of the population.)

 

[Themistocles]

I used to pull people out of the ditch, but after a couple of close calls and damage to my gear I decided to leave roadside recovery to the professionals.​

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We get plenty of experience doing vehicle recovery on the trail. It does not apply to the roadside for two reasons. First, on the trail you generally expect the stuck vehicle to assist and the driver to understand your recovery plan and follow directions. The roadside driver can't be counted on to do either. This is why professionals do recovery without any occupants in the vehicle. Second, on the trail everyone else gives you room and stays safely out of the way. On the roadside it's only a matter of time until some other yahoo comes sailing down the road oblivious to the situation.​

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Example 1: Small rise on a two lane road, rear wheel drive sedan tried to accelerate going up it and fishtailed into the field on the right side of the road. I explain I'm going to winch him out and want him to help steer the car so we can line him up on the shoulder. Once free the idiot puts it in reverse, backs over my cable and parks on the far side of the road. My cable is now tight, strung across the road about 18" high. Any oncoming car would have hit it creating a nice three car sandwich. I jump out and sit the winch to freespool dropping the cable to the ground...​

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Example 2: Pickup is approaching an intersection with a slight slope. He fishtails, crosses the road and high centers in deep snow. I tell him I'm going to pull him out of the snowbank with my tow strap and he should leave it in neutral. He doesn't have a tow hook, but it's an easy pull so I wrap the strap around the bumper support bracket. I pull him free, and roll forward to undo my strap. He puts it in drive and charges forward straight up the ruts he was just in, cuts my strap and (surprise) high centers in the exact same spot. He say's, "huh, I guess your strap broke." I left him sitting there.​

I had a situation very much like your example 1. I was coming back to Minot from Winnipeg a few years ago in my well set-up '03 Ram CTD. Weather was awful, ground blizzards w/near white out conditions, solid ice on the road, ambient temp was about -30F with a 30 - 40mph wind...so wind chill running something like 60 - 70 below. An old Ford station wagon zipped past me in a 4-lane section of a town. About 15 minutes later I came on him about 150 yards off the road, in snow grill deep. In weather like that stopping is not even in question, you have to stop or people die. So I pulled over on a little pull out a couple hundred yard past him. Put on my big fur parka, wool gloves with over mittens, a face mask, my bunny boots, and snow pants...yes had all that in my truck and more, and walked back to him. I found him in his car in cargo shorts and a t-shirt. I asked him if he had cold weather gear...he did not, nor did he have a cell phone. I told him I would go get him some gear so he could safely walk to my truck and then I would drop him at the closest town. He said no thanks he would stay with his vehicle. I walked back to my truck called the only tow company in the area and was told they couldn't make it out there for at least 3-hours (in which time old-boy would almost certainly have been dead.) I walked back and told him that, he said he would be ok and would stay with his car. He asked if I could pull him out. As that was apparently the only way to save his life I agreed...after about an hour of me working and him sitting inside his vehicle, I finally was able to drag him up on the road ... at which point he promptly drove to the other side of the road stretching my tow rope across the road with a car coming. I just had time to get my truck in gear and moved into the road to drop the rope enough for the car to drive over it. I unhooked and drove away without a word. I did call the Highway Patrol with description, location, and plates and recommend they check up on him...and see why he was so hesitant to leave his car.

 

[Rodeoflyer]

I'd much rather have a helical type limited slip like my truck (RAM Powerwagon) in the Jeep (along with the selective locker). I rarely need to engage 4hi in the truck unless I'm off-road. With an open diff having to activate 4hi constantly is a pita on short trips over snow and ice on asphalt. I'd almost rather have a sport with the LSD for urban driving and short trips.

Jeep may be onto something with their new 'selec-trac' transfer case option on the '21+ models. It's yet to be seen how it performs/durability. I know the ram 1500 guys hate it.

 

[Zotch]

John:
To be exact my pleasant experience happened when going from Deer Park to Brentwood. I got on to Long Island Ave from Deer Park Ave (NY 231) as did the Audi driver. He cut a couple of people off close to the Deer Park Train Station about 2 miles later when Long Island Ave goes from a single lane to a double lane. By the time he was close to the Miniature Golf Course at the Intersection of Long Island Ave and Pine Aire Drive the poor guy had spun out. I dropped my mom off at Broadridge and then helped the guy out on my way back alongside with the gentleman in the JKU Sahara who stopped right after I did.

I used to drag race on DPA back in the late 80's.

Lucky to still be alive

 

[Heimkehr]

Had snow Wednesday when I was driving to visit a client and a normally 2.5 hour drive took 4. The snow wasn't even that thick, but the road crews apparently hadn't been out yet and it was pretty slick. I got stuck behind two accidents that had the roads closed for a bit; witnessed two vehicles lose control and hit the barricade in the median; watched one almost lose control only to regain it about 200 feet before he would have hit me head on; and saw 12 cars/trucks/semis off in the ditch, four of which had angrily passed me earlier because I apparently wasn't going fast enough.

I'll admit to doing something, as a younger man, that I've not done for years now: Passing slow drivers whose inclement weather driving skills were observably much lower than my own. Not folks who were just slower, but truly sloth-like. There is a difference.

There was a time when I might indeed have been the dummy in the ditch, but for the fact that it never happened. I still came to decide that patience was the better choice: I didn't want to end up off of the road, and I didn't need to be wherever I was going, 5 minutes sooner than when I'd get there. The sloths are still out there, natch, but they stay in front of me until one of us makes a turn.

I do hope other drivers come to the same realization that I have, sooner rather than later.

 

[631_Islander]

I used to drag race on DPA back in the late 80's.

Lucky to still be alive

Suffolk County Police wants to know your location

 

[Rodeoflyer]

We have approximately 40,000 crashes per year in Oregon. The overwhelming majority — almost all — are due to human errors. Vehicles are much safer than they have ever been, but our fatality numbers are climbing. I think that‘s because people are driving faster, while also following at closer distances and playing with cell phones. That’s a fatal combination, particularly in Oregon, where a growing percentage of our population is also stoned. (Oregonians recently decriminalized ALL drug use, including meth, heroin, and LSD, so it’s going to get much worse... I’m just hoping to stay alive and healthy until retirement, when I won’t have to drive on Oregon roads at all!)

Denver is what you just detailed on steroids. And they're still arriving in droves. I couldn't live in the city. They want an 2br apartment for $1200/mo (try $2k/mo) so come here and live 5 people in a 5 bedroom home.

 

[kaffeian]

My Dad "4 wheel drive is two more tires to spin on ice".

 

[intentsrig]

I was a menace with my 2015 STI. Every stoplight, parking lot or 90 degree turn I was sliding sideways. Always getting dirty looks in intersections.

With snow tires and that center locking diff..it would only get stuck once the frame was buried. I actually never got stuck. Just plowed snow passing all sorts of SUV’s. Loved that car.

 

[Wkaz]

Was dropping my mom off at work early morning today at around 5:30 here on Long Island. It was blinding Snow, Sleet with significant ground accumulations, a biting wind and even worst wind chills. On top of that it is still fully dark out.

I get on the single lane road that goes straight to her work place. The Road is coated in a thick layer of Snow with a very thin layer of Sleet underneath. Speed Limit is 40MPH (65 kmph for my fellow non American or non British Jeepers). I put my JLUR in 4Hi and take it easy going at about 30 to 35MPH (50 to about 55kmph). Besides me, there are some Pickup Trucks who are doing the same speed as me (a Tacoma, a 1500, a Titan and a Jeep Gladiator). Usually we can go about 50MPH on that road (80 kmph).

While I am driving, this little prick in a brand new Audi A4 AWD station wagon is rapidly closing the gap behind me and then starts tail gating in blinding snow! He had the gall to start flickering his beams at me and asking me to speed up. When the road opened up and became a two lane, he cuts me and two Pickup Trucks off while honking his horn. Just near my mom's work place, the douche ends up spinning out of control and is stuck in a snow bank. I drop my mom off and then go back just five minutes later The guy is out there waiting for someone to tow him out.

While I wanted to pull down my window and flip him off, I felt bad and stopped; as did a fella in a JKU Sahara who looked like a gentleman in his early to mid 50s. The JKU Sahara owner had a tow rope on him and the two of us helped get the guy out of the snow bank. It had become obvious to us that the poor soul has no idea how to even hook up a tow rope. So I put helped put the Rope on the Audi while the JKU Sahara owner connected to his Jeep and got him out. The guy looked just extremely embarrassed as he know I am same JLU Rubicon owner he had cut off just some minutes ago. Afterwards I called him out for cutting me off in front of the JKU Sahara owner; who begrudgingly told him that having an AWD in a Luxury German Car does not make you invincible. He told him that if Jeeps and heavier vehicles are taking it easy, he always fails to understand why people in their Audis or BMWs or AWD Nissans think they are God.

Don't know about others but I have also experienced the same. Our fellow Jeepers and many Pickup Truck drivers tend to still take it very easy in the Snow as we know what can happen. It is always that one idiot in a BWM or Mercedes or Audi or Lexus that thinks they are God in the Snow with their computer controlled AWD system. This is despite a Jeep or a Pickup Truck being a lot more capable in inclement weather versus these AWD cars. Wonder when these folks will learn???

Sidenote: The JLU Factory LED Headlamps are an absolute disaster in the Snow as there is significant reflection from the surface. Hope I get used to that over time. Otherwise, I love my Jeep!

Precisely why I didn't opt for the led package. Not to mention replacement cost.

 

[TheRaven]

Opinions vary - I've also had a BMW and it seemed engineering approaches were vastly different (from a DIY viewpoint). Actually enjoyed working on my Audis and hated working on the BMW.

Yeah don't get me wrong, i'm not saying the cars suck. I loved my M5. I'm just saying that this idea that "German Engineering" is somehow superior is a bunch of uneducated BS. The only real difference is that the Germans do not recognize the fact that in engineering, the simpler solution is always the better one. They tend to believe that complexity = quality. To add to that, the German cars are barely even engineered by Germans anymore.

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