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Some non Jeepers seriously think they are invincible in a Snow Storm when in 4WD or AWD

Wabujitsu

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Power to ya, brother. That takes courage -- and a unique sense of style.

The Army has always been more tolerant of that sort of independent freedom of uniform expression than The Corps. ;)

I've always assumed Birkenstocks were comfortable, because they're expensive and goofy looking, but the hippies keep buying them.

Just bustin balls on the hippie-wear. :CWL:

Thanks for your service.

On the snow vehicle front: If I was super rich I'd equip everybody I cared about with a suburban or, better yet, a heavy, four-door, diesel 4x4 pickup with a short box, 600 pounds of sand (or snow) in the back, and studded winter-rated tires. Part of the benefit of that package is the ability to go on any roads, including the deeply rutted side roads that haven't been plowed. In Oregon, particularly on the valley side, it's common for snow ruts on side roads to be six or eight inches deep and coated in ice from repeated melting and freezing cycles -- because many counties on the valley side don't deal well with snow and Oregon generally won't salt the roads. (Years ago I took my kids up a nearby logging road to a favorite sledding spot, as our snow depth increases very quickly with altitude. On the way back down the hill I came upon a Cherokee on the way up in the same track. We met in a wide spot where the snow was only about 12" to 18" deep on the roadside, so he tried to get out of my way, but he couldn't climb out of the ruts he was in. His front wheels just hopped and spun at a 45 angle to the track, but I was driving a heavy, winch-equipped, F-350 diesel six-pack with studded buckshots and a full load of family, firewood, and sledding & picnic crap. I just backed up thirty feet, and then drove around the cherokee at about 10 MPH. I heard and felt the ice crunching under my truck as it climbed out of the tracks, punched through the fresh snow on the road side, and returned to the tracks on the other side of the jeep. It was as easy as a drive around a Walmart parking lot.)

But the biggest value of that heavy truck was the safety it provided due to its weight. A "Five Star" safety ratings is all well and good, but there is no substitute for weight when the crazy, out-of-control idiot runs into you. (When compared with other 3000 pound cars, Camrys are pretty safe, but years ago I worked a crash where an older two-door Dodge 2500 pickup lost control, left the road, then returned to the road at a right angle and punched into a Camry. The Camry was literally cut in half, with the two pieces separated by about fifty feet. That's why we always say "the vehicle with the most lug nuts always wins" That crash was a like a 260 pound linebacker running into a 120 pound cheerleader at 60 mph.)

No matter how bad the driving conditions are, I'll still see people eating, drinking, reading, texting, speeding, and watching TV, often in some combination at the same time. These idiots are out in the mix causing crashes every day -- to the tune of about 40,000 crashes annually just in Oregon. Many of today's drivers are also impaired, particularly in drug-friendly Oregon, and particularly after 10:00 at night, as drugs are available everywhere and DUI laws are increasingly difficult to enforce. The only way to mitigate the risk these people represent is to drive less, or drive BIG. Since I can't put my family in an M1, I want them in heavy trucks. The weight difference between my F350 described above and my JLUR is greater than the weight difference between the Camry and the JLUR.

I wish you all a very Merry Christmas and a safe and happy new year.
Hooah! Thanks for your service too, brother!
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Whaler27

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Sta Nisia

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Yeah, many folks think they are invincible. They don't realize that 4WD and AWD don't help them stop or steer any better in snow/ice.
For what it's worth... My wife's FWD Honda Civic with winter tires is way more capable in the snow than my son's AWD Subaru with all-season tires.
I worked my way through undergrad and grad doing deliveries in New England. You are exactly right when it comes to steering and stopping. A JL with muds will be better than a Subaru in somewhere between 1% to 5% of winter conditions, and that fact that where it does better is getting going is a danger in itself meaning you are going to be moving yet have no increased stopping or turning ability.

And as you note snow tires make a profound difference in most snow. I'd rather be in a miata with snows than a Subaru with "all season" and certainly than a jeep with muds or all seasons.
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