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SelecTrac & the Anti-Spin Differential Rear Axle vs Rubicon?

OldGuyNewJeep

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At the end of the day get what you want/need and enjoy. The beauty of jeeps is you can add what you missed if you change your mind.
Amen!

I think where this thread go lost was in interpretation of OP’s intent. If read as, “I want a Rubicon, but think Sahara is more sensible because I live where it snows.” To that, people will obviously say, “No, Dude. Get the Rubi, it’ll be fine in the snow.” Conversely, if read as, “I really don’t know what I want, yet. SelecTrac looks like it has some real benefit to my use case, but I’m not sure,” you’re gonna get some healthy debate, and also a sprinkling of holier-than-thou types telling you why Sahara’s are only for soccer moms. How silly! Just as many Rubicons will spend their time on pavement, only.

I used to have a Raptor, and in those forums the derogatory term hurled about was “Street Queen.” Here, it’s “Mall Crawler.” Whatever! Let people do what makes them happy. Why does anyone care how other people use their cars?
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Hughesonthenet

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I used to have a Raptor, and in those forums the derogatory term hurled about was “Street Queen.” Here, it’s “Mall Crawler.” Whatever! Let people do what makes them happy. Why does anyone care how other people use their cars?
^^^THIS!^^^
 

JJW_ND

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OP.....IMHO (free advice) I would go with a Sahara and definitely get the Anti Spin rear Diff. I have that exact setup with 85K miles on here in ND. I only put it in 4H when I have wheel spin and need traction. I drive (even on the interstate) in 2wd. I want to feel wheel spin while it is limited enough to control. It also slows you down which is the biggest problem. The only times I wish I had a front locker is when trying to get stuck (blizzard type snow).

Having said all that ....I am waiting for a diesel and then will see if anything changes with gears and axles between Sahara and Rubicon with the diesel.

I added 34" tires to this 12 Sahara (wheel spacers) and the AEV 2.5 from the start. The ride has been great and I want a similar setup in the new JL. The suspention setup is so good that I have all 85K miles on the same tires that when on the 1st 10 miles ....Nitto Trail Grapplers.

I think I have myself convinced that a Rubicon gets their cheaper. If I go that route, I will find a way to mod the lockers so I can at least lock the rear in 2wd to mach what I have with the Antispin. I have had three Ford F350 with there electric rear and it is a great setup.

Great form to read. All ideas and suggestions are great and help dial in the best route to go.

jjw
ND
 

Jeepsterfreak

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Trac-Loc is best defined as "better than nothing." After about 30K miles it is "the same as nothing." It has clutches that wear every mile you drive. I would not waste money replacing the clutches. Much better LSD or locking differentials are available. If the option package I wanted required it, I would get it. Otherwise, I would pass.
Question. After the clutch plates start to wear out, does this have any negative impact on drive ability or does it act as an open diff?

I'm leaning toward the LSD option mainly for the upgraded D44 axle and all terrain tires.
 

Gpndavid

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It acts like an open diff. If you get an upgraded axle and tires, I would go for it. You can always rebuild it or put in a TrueTrac or locker later.
 

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The Great Grape Ape

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Here in the mid Atlantic we get a lot of these storms along with sleet.

Unfortunately people seem to think AWD helps and they drive too fast. Typically it’s not what your driving, but how people approach the road conditions.
precisely.

false sense of security.... "I have full time AWD, so I can just drive as I normally do through inclement weather"
Do either of you think that’s the agument being made here? Really?

Doesn’t that same argument go for winter tyres? People driving with winter tyres have a false sense of invulnerability... therefore... they aren’t necessarily better than all-season tyres?

No one is saying AWD is required to get from A to B, but when SelecTrac has essentially all the Part Time features of CommandTrac & RockTrac (outside ratio) , then how is adding FT 4WD a negative to the experienced winter driver?
 

The Great Grape Ape

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Trac-Loc is best defined as "better than nothing." After about 30K miles it is "the same as nothing." It has clutches that wear every mile you drive. I would not waste money replacing the clutches. Much better LSD or locking differentials are available. If the option package I wanted required it, I would get it. Otherwise, I would pass.
That’s only if you’re using it a lot, and 30,000 miles would even be a low estimate then. Typical rebukd time-frames are more around the 100,000+ mile mark, with a 50,000 mile rebuild be for someone using them for extensive off-roading, 30K would be for someone pushing them much harder where they would’ve been better served by a dedicated built-up off-road rig from a Sport or similar base. They would be the candidate for TruTrac, and realistically likely an LSD+Locker like the Eaton.

Even then rebuild kits are $150-250, a complete unit replacement can be had for about twice that, and either can be done by the dealership usually for a few hundred more. The question becomes if you see as much benefit from an LSD as you do from other components like tyres, etc.

For a soft-roading user they’re going to be fine for the usual life of their vehicle, and by the 100,000 mile mark rebuilding the LSD like rebuilding a manual transmission will be worth it for the benefits they provide to that driver.
 

Jeepvkk

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That’s only if you’re using it a lot, and 30,000 miles would even be a low estimate then. Typical rebukd time-frames are more around the 100,000+ mile mark, with a 50,000 mile rebuild be for someone using them for extensive off-roading, 30K would be for someone pushing them much harder where they would’ve been better served by a dedicated built-up off-road rig from a Sport or similar base. They would be the candidate for TruTrac, and realistically likely an LSD+Locker like the Eaton.

Even then rebuild kits are $150-250, a complete unit replacement can be had for about twice that, and either can be done by the dealership usually for a few hundred more. The question becomes if you see as much benefit from an LSD as you do from other components like tyres, etc.

For a soft-roading user they’re going to be fine for the usual life of their vehicle, and by the 100,000 mile mark rebuilding the LSD like rebuilding a manual transmission will be worth it for the benefits they provide to that driver.
I'm quite confused about this option because you hear so many differing opinions. Is it a steady degradation or is it good traction until it wears out completely. I would eventually like to add a locker and the 44 is attractive from that point of view, but I'm worried about having no or compromised traction control. Also, can you add LSD along with a locker for both high and low?
 

The Great Grape Ape

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Having said all that ....I am waiting for a diesel and then will see if anything changes with gears and axles between Sahara and Rubicon with the diesel.
According to the early leaked towing/payload/weight ratings document the diesel is supposed to get the 3.73 axle across all 3 platforms.

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...r-weight-tow-capacity-max-payload-specs.1440/


I think I have myself convinced that a Rubicon gets their cheaper. If I go that route, I will find a way to mod the lockers so I can at least lock the rear in 2wd to mach what I have with the Antispin. I have had three Ford F350 with there electric rear and it is a great setup.
With an aftermarket tuner in the past you’ve been able to engage/disengage lockers selectively in 2H & 4H, but we still don’t know the options and limitations of new tuners yet, especially in light of some of the compartmentalization of features in the new control modules.
 

TroyBoy

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It acts like an open diff. If you get an upgraded axle and tires, I would go for it. You can always rebuild it or put in a TrueTrac or locker later.
TrueTracs are gear driven and work great. I run them front and back on my current Jeep. I think I am going to miss those when I get my Rubicon.
 

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The Great Grape Ape

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I'm quite confused about this option because you hear so many differing opinions. Is it a steady degradation or is it good traction until it wears out completely. I would eventually like to add a locker and the 44 is attractive from that point of view, but I'm worried about having no traction control. Also, can you add LSD along with a locker for both high and low?
The level of degredation will depend on usage, but it will workfor a long period, then start to fail, then fail. Typically, it’s neither linear loss, nor just a sudden everything then nothing, usually the spring and side gear setup will keep it working through a certain level of wear before it will be less effective, then no longer be effective, and often you can tell with a bit of shudder/vibration, but you also need to know what to look for. Now, that doesn’t preclude it just up and failing like any other component, especially if greatly stressed or the random bad luck of the draw.

You can add LSD + Locker via the aftermarket. Eaton has an option for the JK that will likely be offered for the JL at some point. The old TJ Rubi had a Torsen LSD + Air Locker option also, and it is still highly regarded, and a combo I would’ve loved to see return for the Rubi, as it’s IMO a better style gear-driven LSD and adds the advantage of a locker.

The nice thing about adding aftermarket with the JL, is that you can add the factory AUX switches to help with activation of add-on features.
 
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Gpndavid

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That’s only if you’re using it a lot, and 30,000 miles would even be a low estimate then. Typical rebukd time-frames are more around the 100,000+ mile mark, with a 50,000 mile rebuild be for someone using them for extensive off-roading, 30K would be for someone pushing them much harder where they would’ve been better served by a dedicated built-up off-road rig from a Sport or similar base. They would be the candidate for TruTrac, and realistically likely an LSD+Locker like the Eaton.

Even then rebuild kits are $150-250, a complete unit replacement can be had for about twice that, and either can be done by the dealership usually for a few hundred more. The question becomes if you see as much benefit from an LSD as you do from other components like tyres, etc.

For a soft-roading user they’re going to be fine for the usual life of their vehicle, and by the 100,000 mile mark rebuilding the LSD like rebuilding a manual transmission will be worth it for the benefits they provide to that driver.
Using it much? You seem to think the clutches have some sort of logic and only engage and wear when in hard off-road use. They are in constant use and wear as you drive on or off-road. No thanks. My choice would be a Sahara with SelcTrac, toss in TruTracs F/R, some 4.11s, and 33 inch tires.
 

The Great Grape Ape

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Using it much? You seem to think the clutches have some sort of logic and only engage and wear when in hard off-road use. They are in constant use and wear as you drive on or off-road.
You seem confused about how the clutch pack works versus a gear driven diff. Everything is prone to wear on and off-road even an open diff or a helical or Torsen differential, however the use/load has a great impact on wear.
The clutches are constantly available, but not constantly being engaged to transfer power and deal with slippage. When off-roading or in low-traction situations then when there is a significant enough difference as determined by the spring load & clutch pack only then they intervene which is when they are more prone to wear. Other things like input torque and tire size can also greatly affect wear, but that’s the case for pretty much all components in the axles & diffs.
Which is why they wear differently depending on use and setup. All the more reason to question your 30,000 mile comment, which even for people doing average off-roading is on the low side, let alone for soft-roaders who are less likely to be putting anywhere near that level of activity into the LSD.

My choice would be a Sahara with SelcTrac, toss in TruTracs F/R
Nothing stops anyone from doing that, like I said I’d prefer to swap out for the Eaton, but it’s also not ‘required’, and for the average soft-roader TracLok is fine and an added benefit over open diffs, and when it does need a rebuild at 50K-150,000 miles, they can always switch to TrueTrac or something else then.
 

Jeepvkk

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So the following video helped me a bit. I was under the mistakenly naive impression that LSD and BLD were mutually exclusive either or. According the video, BLD kicks in when LSD is not able to perform. This makes it more palatable and worth it given the 44 axles.
 
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Gpndavid

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You seem confused about how the clutch pack works versus a gear driven diff. Everything is prone to wear on and off-road even an open diff or a helical or Torsen differential, however the use/load has a great impact on wear.
The clutches are constantly available, but not constantly being engaged to transfer power and deal with slippage. When off-roading or in low-traction situations then when there is a significant enough difference as determined by the spring load & clutch pack only then they intervene which is when they are more prone to wear. Other things like input torque and tire size can also greatly affect wear, but that’s the case for pretty much all components in the axles & diffs.
Which is why they wear differently depending on use and setup. All the more reason to question your 30,000 mile comment, which even for people doing average off-roading is on the low side, let alone for soft-roaders who are less likely to be putting anywhere near that level of activity into the LSD.



Nothing stops anyone from doing that, like I said I’d prefer to swap out for the Eaton, but it’s also not ‘required’, and for the average soft-roader TracLok is fine and an added benefit over open diffs, and when it does need a rebuild at 50K-150,000 miles, they can always switch to TrueTrac or something else then.
I agree with what you are saying and you have a good understanding of how the various diffs work. I'm not a fan of the clutches wearing as I make turns in the mall parking lot. :)
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