Sahara - lockers and re-gear with LSD and Selec-Trac

IronScott

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I’m sorry if this is a repeat topic but I’ve searched a ton of threads and everything I found was either old or aimed at Sport/S. I have a Sahara with LSD and Selec-trac. I’m running 295/70/17 KM3 tires right now but plan on going up to 35s at some point.

I like the Select-trac, especially with the terrain I deal with. That being said, I think I will want to get into some rougher terrain where lockers would be beneficial and also required on some of the local rides. The thing I’m confused about is with Selec-trac and LSD, how does this work?

The TORQ front lockers look like a nice option, and fairly well priced, but the clicking in 2WD might drive me crazy. Does this negate or screw with the Selec-trac?

If I re-gear the front, does the rear need to be re-geared equally at the same time?

Most of this stuff seems logical but throwing in LSD and Selec-trac confuses things to me. I know I should’ve bought a Rubicon for what I want but what’s done is done. I love my Jeep and don’t mind spending on quality mods that will help me off-road.





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xtopherm

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I’m sorry if this is a repeat topic but I’ve searched a ton of threads and everything I found was either old or aimed at Sport/S. I have a Sahara with LSD and Selec-trac. I’m running 295/70/17 KM3 tires right now but plan on going up to 35s at some point.

I like the Select-trac, especially with the terrain I deal with. That being said, I think I will want to get into some rougher terrain where lockers would be beneficial and also required on some of the local rides. The thing I’m confused about is with Selec-trac and LSD, how does this work?

The TORQ front lockers look like a nice option, and fairly well priced, but the clicking in 2WD might drive me crazy. Does this negate or screw with the Selec-trac?

If I re-gear the front, does the rear need to be re-geared equally at the same time?

Most of this stuff seems logical but throwing in LSD and Selec-trac confuses things to me. I know I should’ve bought a Rubicon for what I want but what’s done is done. I love my Jeep and don’t mind spending on quality mods that will help me off-road.
Here's a crazy idea you could consider: leave your rear axle alone and just put a manually selectable locker in the front axle (an air locker or an electronic locker, switchable from the cabin). Sure, it is not going to be 100% as effective as twin lockers, and if you were going to choose just one axle to put a locker on in a perfect world you'd probably pick the rear, but this approach has some real potential advantages: (1) it is cost effective AF (2) it allows you to keep your LSD for road and light trail use which is awesome - great feature of sahara, (3) it allows you to keep your automatic selectable on-road 4WD for snowy roads, etc. which is also a great feature of the Sahara and (4) it gives you really good rough trail capability for those times when you are getting hard core and really need it. In many situations, an LSD in the rear combined with a locker in the front is going to be pretty darn close to twin lockers. Not identical, but close enough that issues like tires and driver skill become as big or bigger a factor than vehicle limitations. Could be a lot of bang for your buck. The one thing I would say is that beating the crap out of an LSD with lots and lots of extended heavy trail use is probably going to cause it to wear somewhat faster than regular use. But if you find yourself going down that path (pun acknowledged), you can always use a worn out LSD as an excuse to put a locker on the rear later.
 
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IronScott

IronScott

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Here's a crazy idea you could consider: leave your rear axle alone and just put a manually selectable locker in the front axle (an air locker or an electronic locker, switchable from the cabin). Sure, it is not going to be 100% as effective as twin lockers, and if you were going to choose just one axle to put a locker on in a perfect world you'd probably pick the rear, but this approach has some real potential advantages: (1) it is cost effective AF (2) it allows you to keep your LSD for road and light trail use which is awesome - great feature of sahara, (3) it allows you to keep your automatic selectable on-road 4WD for snowy roads, etc. which is also a great feature of the Sahara and (4) it gives you really good rough trail capability for those times when you are getting hard core and really need it. In many situations, an LSD in the rear combined with a locker in the front is going to be pretty darn close to twin lockers. Not identical, but close enough that issues like tires and driver skill become as big or bigger a factor than vehicle limitations. Could be a lot of bang for your buck. The one thing I would say is that beating the crap out of an LSD with lots and lots of extended heavy trail use is probably going to cause it to wear somewhat faster than regular use. But if you find yourself going down that path (pun acknowledged), you can always use a worn out LSD as an excuse to put a locker on the rear later.
I really like your approach and think it would work well. I just didn’t know if doing something on the front like that would screw up anything on the rear. I won’t be putting a lot of daily miles (work from home), so I’m more concerned about being sustainable off-road.

I’m not going to be selling my current JL unless something goes really wrong with it, so I’m fine with modding it. I’ve already spent more than I ever planned and I have more things I want to do. Just Empty Every Pocket is so true.
 

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The torq locker is a great locker, but if you drive in snowy conditions I wouldn’t use the auto 4 with it. The auto locker will cause A push steer on a snow covered road and with auto 4 engaged, it could activate in a corner and you end up going for the ditch

I ran the earlier version in my JK and loved it off road. I’ll be putting one in my JL soon, paired with the limited rear, it will be great for what I wheel
Also the clicking isn’t that bad to be honest. I only ever heard mine if I turned quickly into a parking spot

 
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The torq locker is a great locker, but if you drive in snowy conditions I wouldn’t use the auto 4 with it. The auto locker will cause A push steer on a snow covered road and with auto 4 engaged, it could activate in a corner and you end up going for the ditch

I ran the earlier version in my JK and loved it off road. I’ll be putting one in my JL soon, paired with the limited rear, it will be great for what I wheel
Also the clicking isn’t that bad to be honest. I only ever heard mine if I turned quickly into a parking spot

Thanks for the response. Doesn’t normally snow much where I live. I’m finding out the trails I want to ride would benefit from lockers (even required on some) and this seems like a good, affordable option. May be the only option on the Sahara right now. I love the Selec-trac system but it would be nice to increase the capability.
 

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I just watched an informative video on YouTube regarding differential types. He said LSDs are only good for about 20k miles before they need to be rebuilt. Apparently they have a clutch pack that constantly spins while you drive that wears and then the diff acts as if it were an open diff. When I regear, I will be looking at Eaton TrueTracs as an alternative.
 

Stingrey

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I just watched an informative video on YouTube regarding differential types. He said LSDs are only good for about 20k miles before they need to be rebuilt. Apparently they have a clutch pack that constantly spins while you drive that wears and then the diff acts as if it were an open diff. When I regear, I will be looking at Eaton TrueTracs as an alternative.
I won't pretend to know much about LSD but my Infiniti G37S has VLSD (V= viscous) and it still hooks up great at 130000km. Did one diff fluid change at around 90k km.
Maybe they are very different types of LSDs.?
 

UKCATS

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Maybe they are very different types of LSDs.?
Yes. The Detroit (Eaton) Truetrac is a gear type limited slip. It doesn’t use friction clutch packs that wear out over time. Not sure if they are available for the new JL axles yet, but they work great for light duty trail riding and aren’t too spendy.
 

Arterius2

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I just watched an informative video on YouTube regarding differential types. He said LSDs are only good for about 20k miles before they need to be rebuilt. Apparently they have a clutch pack that constantly spins while you drive that wears and then the diff acts as if it were an open diff. When I regear, I will be looking at Eaton TrueTracs as an alternative.
20k? Heh, looks like you are covered under warranty for 3x swaps. Should be fine.
 

grs

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Here's a crazy idea you could consider: leave your rear axle alone and just put a manually selectable locker in the front axle (an air locker or an electronic locker, switchable from the cabin). Sure, it is not going to be 100% as effective as twin lockers, and if you were going to choose just one axle to put a locker on in a perfect world you'd probably pick the rear, but this approach has some real potential advantages: (1) it is cost effective AF (2) it allows you to keep your LSD for road and light trail use which is awesome - great feature of sahara, (3) it allows you to keep your automatic selectable on-road 4WD for snowy roads, etc. which is also a great feature of the Sahara and (4) it gives you really good rough trail capability for those times when you are getting hard core and really need it. In many situations, an LSD in the rear combined with a locker in the front is going to be pretty darn close to twin lockers. Not identical, but close enough that issues like tires and driver skill become as big or bigger a factor than vehicle limitations. Could be a lot of bang for your buck. The one thing I would say is that beating the crap out of an LSD with lots and lots of extended heavy trail use is probably going to cause it to wear somewhat faster than regular use. But if you find yourself going down that path (pun acknowledged), you can always use a worn out LSD as an excuse to put a locker on the rear later.
Man, I can't resist responding, this is EXACTLY my plan from day one. Front lockers, SelecTrac in the middle and LSD in rear. Living in Chicago area we often have dry ice-patched roads in winter and central differential is a must-have. I just can't manually switch 2H/4H every time I see ice in front of me. We had Jeep Liberty with 4H Full Time and loved it. We would never buy Wrangler if they did not offer it with SelecTrac. We now have 2018 Sahara with SelecTrac and LSD. We still use 4H part time and 4L on gravel roads and trails as needed but there is simply no substitute for 4H Auto when it comes to driving on paved roads in winter time.
We do not have front locker yet but plan to do it soon. This summer we did trip to Colorado and Utah including some popular trails around Moab and I honestly did not notice any need for that front locker, but still, I know we'll need it eventually.
 

HayBuiltJLU

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Man, I can't resist responding, this is EXACTLY my plan from day one. Front lockers, SelecTrac in the middle and LSD in rear. Living in Chicago area we often have dry ice-patched roads in winter and central differential is a must-have. I just can't manually switch 2H/4H every time I see ice in front of me. We had Jeep Liberty with 4H Full Time and loved it. We would never buy Wrangler if they did not offer it with SelecTrac. We now have 2018 Sahara with SelecTrac and LSD. We still use 4H part time and 4L on gravel roads and trails as needed but there is simply no substitute for 4H Auto when it comes to driving on paved roads in winter time.
We do not have front locker yet but plan to do it soon. This summer we did trip to Colorado and Utah including some popular trails around Moab and I honestly did not notice any need for that front locker, but still, I know we'll need it eventually.
One thing to be cautious of is running 35s on your dana 30 with a locker. I would be lean towards running a selectable locker in your rear axle and leaving the front open.
 

Bushwick18

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Man, I can't resist responding, this is EXACTLY my plan from day one. Front lockers, SelecTrac in the middle and LSD in rear. Living in Chicago area we often have dry ice-patched roads in winter and central differential is a must-have. I just can't manually switch 2H/4H every time I see ice in front of me. We had Jeep Liberty with 4H Full Time and loved it. We would never buy Wrangler if they did not offer it with SelecTrac. We now have 2018 Sahara with SelecTrac and LSD. We still use 4H part time and 4L on gravel roads and trails as needed but there is simply no substitute for 4H Auto when it comes to driving on paved roads in winter time.
We do not have front locker yet but plan to do it soon. This summer we did trip to Colorado and Utah including some popular trails around Moab and I honestly did not notice any need for that front locker, but still, I know we'll need it eventually.
I am struggling with this same thing. I have a JLUS with Selectrac LSD in rear. I would like a front locker but selectable. The issue is with a Dana 30 345 gears I’d have to regear to go to an air locker.
we are going to Moab next June and I am trying To decide if I take her out as is or out the locker but have to spend more to regear to 456. The added Pro to regearing is being able to go to 35s. Currently on KO2 33s with level kit.

fins n things, hells. Elephant hill can do with my setup ?
 

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Doesn't the European Rubicon have selectrac and lockers? Has anyone looked into acquiring those axles and retrofitting them onto a selectrac Sahara?
 
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IronScott

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Doesn't the European Rubicon have selectrac and lockers? Has anyone looked into acquiring those axles and retrofitting them onto a selectrac Sahara?
Someone can correct me if I’m wrong but I think Selec Trac is controlled by the transfer case so the Euro axles wouldn’t be any better than US axles and they are more narrow that US Rubicon axles (I think).
 

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