Russian election meddling and treatment of US intelligence agencies by President

  1. Todkavonic

    Todkavonic Well-Known Member

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    He never intended to win. Hell he didn't even write an acceptance speech. This was all about making money from campaigning. Winning brings scrutiny and, lets face it, he's a crook. Whether or not he'll be punished is the question. Regarding your collusion/no collusion comment, the investigation is still underway. That the public isn't privy to the facts, yet, means very little.
     
  2. mwilk012

    mwilk012 Well-Known Member

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    The not a crazy right wing conspiracy, I didn’t even vote for Trump. The MSM and the FBI are simply biased so heavily against him that they have been running fake stories since the election and grossly overstating the importance of this inquisition. The only crimes that have been committed were making false statements to the FBI during a counterintelligence operation that never should have happened. It wasn’t even a criminal investigation.
     
  3. Todkavonic

    Todkavonic Well-Known Member

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    Oh, it is. And again with "inquisition". It's a special council investigation run by a life-long republican, appointed by a republican deputy attorney general, who, himself, was appointed by a republican president. And there's much more than false statements made to the FBI, and, I'm thinking, much, much more to come.

    3A9C5BB9-5F4B-46F1-ACFB-D337419F57AA.png
     
  4. mwilk012

    mwilk012 Well-Known Member

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    You just listed a bunch of people charged with lying to investigators in a counterintelligence operation. Next you'll be calling the Mueller report a "bombshell" and say "the walls are closing in" just like you've been trained.
     
  5. Todkavonic

    Todkavonic Well-Known Member

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    Nope. I responded to your claim that the only crime was lying to Congress with a list of people who committed a variety of additional crimes and are either charged or have pleaded guilty. If you can't acknowledge that you misspoke or that I'm correct, maybe you should stay in whatever safe space you require where your opinions aren't challenged with facts.
     
  6. mwilk012

    mwilk012 Well-Known Member

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    I never said Congress.
    Look at the list of so called crimes, they’re all a part of the investigation itself, apart from some obscure financial crimes that cannot be tied directly to the president. The claim being perpetuated by the media and the FBI is that Trump is effectively a Russian plant set up to further the goals of the Russian government.
     
  7. Todkavonic

    Todkavonic Well-Known Member

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    You're correct, you said that they lied to the FBI, not congress. My mistake. See how easy that was? Both are felonies by the way. And looking at the above list, yup, they're both there along with some others: obstruction of justice, witness tampering, conspiracy to defraud the US. Are these not crimes? Should people be allowed to obstruct justice or lie to congress without penalty or even fear of penalty. That's a rather, um, liberal interpretation of jurisprudence.
     
  8. mwilk012

    mwilk012 Well-Known Member

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    As I’ve said repeatedly, the only crimes committed have been in connection to the investigation itself.
     
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  9. Todkavonic

    Todkavonic Well-Known Member

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    Um, an investigation revealed crimes: obstruction of justice, lying to Congress, lying to the FBI, bank fraud, being an unregistered agent to a foreign principal. Those are crimes that, supposedly, wouldn’t have been identified had there not been an investigation.

    Your honor! There is only evidence that my client robbed that bank because there was an investigation into the robbery! Had there been no investigation, you’d have no proof!

    So, do we ignore those crimes? Come on now, argue in good faith.
     
  10. W5MQS

    W5MQS Well-Known Member

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    I think the point that he is trying to make is that the investigation is supposed to find evidence of a DIRECT link of collusion to the Russians by/with the president but so far, they have found nothing...none...nadda...zip...zilch...zero. Everything that has been found so far are INCIDENTAL crimes committed by these individuals during the course of the investigation that are NOT (meaning the crimes, not the people) tied to the president. Evidence shows that, yes, they have committed these crimes on their own and in some instances, years before the election itself. Furthermore, Mueller most likely tries or has already tried to use these crimes against these individuals to get them to come up with/confess something against the president but so far he has failed. If someone that Mueller and his crew indicts does come up with something, I'd have to wonder just how true it really is considering that "confession" is probably made under duress.
     
  11. mwilk012

    mwilk012 Well-Known Member

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    Those are almost entirely crimes resulting FROM the investigation itself. That’s why they’re called process crimes. There is no evidence of the offense being investigated ever having occurred. That’s the problem.

    Edit: that’s a terrible analogy by the way. A more analogous situation would be if someone had a bank account at a bank that might have been robbed, and when asked if they had a bank account there they said no. Having the account was not a crime.
     
  12. Todkavonic

    Todkavonic Well-Known Member

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    It’s nice that you’re trying to clarify that for both of us although you’re wrong about the purpose of the investigation. From wiki

    “The ongoing Special Counsel investigation (also referred to as the Mueller Probe)[1] is a United States law enforcement and counterintelligence investigation of the Russian government's efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election. This investigation includes any possible links or coordination between Donald Trump's presidential campaign and the Russian government, "and any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation."

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Counsel_investigation_(2017–present)

    This is how Whitewater ended up with stains on a blue dress.
     
  13. Todkavonic

    Todkavonic Well-Known Member

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    Hey! Breakthrough! We went from entirely related to the inquisition to almost entirely from the investigation. Baby steps.
     
  14. mwilk012

    mwilk012 Well-Known Member

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    That’s not going deep enough on the question of “why”.
     
  15. mwilk012

    mwilk012 Well-Known Member

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    Because the others are completely unrelated to the president and the “Russian collusion” narrative being perpetuated by the media.
     
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