Rubicon Poll - Have you had problems with your locker sensors

Have you had "service axle locker" (locker sensor) problems on your Rubicon?

  • Never had problem, but have under 15K miles on Jeep

  • Never had problem, and have over 15K miles on Jeep

  • Had the problem, while Jeep had less than 15K miles (not self inflicted)

  • Had the problem, while Jeep had over 15K miles (not self inflicted)

  • Had the problem, but it was self inflicted (stretched lines, etc)

  • I potted my sensors, and don't have the problem since potting


Results are only viewable after voting.
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gato

gato

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Electronics 101
Current is a stream of charged particles moving through an electric conductor.

Because oil is a very poor conductor and the metal residue in the oil do not make contact with each other, there is no constant conductor for the charged particles to move through, therefore no current.
If that were the case, then these circuits would never short out due to oil intrusion. There are 2 possible (one likely) mechanisms at play.

1 - metal particles in the oil infiltrate and accumulate in the sensor, and eventually short out the circuit. These can be an intermittent short (as the particles complete the circuit at times), becoming permanent over time as enough particles close the circuit or cause failure of the active components. This is by far the most likely mechnism.

2 - Enough particles are suspended in the oil to lower it's resistance to the point of interfering with the circuits. While I agree this is the less likely mechanism, I can't rule it out.





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OP
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gato

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Thank you all who voted so far (194) - great participation. I wish Jeep would read this somehow.

14% of voting owners had the problem and nearly basically 1/2 had it before and 1/2 after 15K miles. So 15K miles seems to be the median mileage for the problem to appear.

85% of owners did not have the problem, but only 40% of those have reached 15K miles, so as mileage increases we may see more failures.
 

CarbonSteel

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Electronics 101
Current is a stream of charged particles moving through an electric conductor.

Because oil is a very poor conductor and the metal residue in the oil do not make contact with each other, there is no constant conductor for the charged particles to move through, therefore no current.
So what causes the PCB to short out if the metal is not a contributor and oil is non-conductive?
 

CaJLMetalHead

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So what causes the PCB to short out if the metal is not a contributor and oil is non-conductive?
To me the most likely cause of failure of the circuit is chemical damage and not electric (short-circuit)....

I am actually one of the guys who took the time to disassemble the sensor (sacrifice it LOL) and do some little reverse-engineer of the circuit inside the sensor, more details on the link below:

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...-not-available-for-puchase.54531/post-1256842

Now... look at that poor little printed circuit board, the components are at the most "Automotive" rated... those circuits contain soft metals like Copper and Tin ... now, gear oil contains "additive" chemicals that I am willing to bet are going to be detrimental to those soft metals that make the circuit ... and well... the components in that circuit are also not designed to be immersed in a HOT bath of nasty gear oil with even NASTIER additives (especially the tiny capacitors .. poor little things!!) .. so.. my take?... the circuit eventually fails when the chemicals in the gear oil + heat cause damage of the circuit components...

I am here to help... not to start non-sensical "Armchair Expert" wars on this forum..

I wish I had a Rubicon to be able to test and reproduce a clone of this circuit to alleviate the issues fellow Jeepers continue to experience due to these batches of failure prone sensors ..but mine is a Sport with a basic computer / Drivetrain control module

1626927545171.png
 
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Ridgway Jeeper

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My statement addresses the future and not the past, there will be a first.
That's pretty cool, seeing into the future and all. You understand that tech's thus far have not been allowed to even open the differentials correct? So are they as gifted as you and can see through the steel cover and identify potted sensors? The tests to determine failure are conducted externally, the axle removed and replaced. Since this will stop the sensors from failing in the first place and axle failures from other causes remain exceptionally rare I am struggling to understand your reasoning. Besides, the laws that exist surrounding warranty claims state they must prove your modification caused the failure to deny and that is simply impossible.
 

CarbonSteel

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To me the most likely cause of failure of the circuit is chemical damage and not electric (short-circuit)....

I am actually one of the guys who took the time to disassemble the sensor (sacrifice it LOL) and do some little reverse-engineer of the circuit inside the sensor, more details on the link below:

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...-not-available-for-puchase.54531/post-1256842

Now... look at that poor little printed circuit board, the components are at the most "Automotive" rated... those circuits contain soft metals like Copper and Tin ... now, gear oil contains "additive" chemicals that I am willing to bet are going to be detrimental to those soft metals that make the circuit ... and well... the components in that circuit are also not designed to be immersed in a HOT bath of nasty gear oil with even NASTIER additives (especially the tiny capacitors .. poor little things!!) .. so.. my take?... the circuit eventually fails when the chemicals in the gear oil + heat cause damage of the circuit components...

I am here to help... not to start non-sensical "Armchair Expert" wars on this forum..

I wish I had a Rubicon to be able to test and reproduce a clone of this circuit to alleviate the issues fellow Jeepers continue to experience due to these batches of failure prone sensors ..but mine is a Sport with a basic computer / Drivetrain control module

1626927545171.png
Well, it was "designed" to be immersed in the oil, else both Dana and FCA are clueless. With that said, it could be a chemical problem, especially given the acidity of most gear oils which only becomes more acidic as it is used.

I cannot totally discount the metal though. When I removed my sensor, there was a "glop" of gray sludgy paste in the sensor area. Now, if the chip is positioned in such a way that allows the same metal to collect inside in the hall chip area, a circuit will eventually be made. The seal on the cover is not that robust and some members have reported that it was all but detached when they examined their sensors.

Either way, where I do consider FCA to be clueless is not allowing the sensor and locking assembly to be sold as a spare part. It amazes me how much money they are willing to lose over a $50 sensor that takes 30 minutes to replace.
 

aro

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Thank you all who voted so far (194) - great participation. I wish Jeep would read this somehow.

14% of voting owners had the problem and nearly basically 1/2 had it before and 1/2 after 15K miles. So 15K miles seems to be the median mileage for the problem to appear.

85% of owners did not have the problem, but only 40% of those have reached 15K miles, so as mileage increases we may see more failures.
14% is pretty high. It might be skewed though if some people joined the forum due to this issue.

Basically, if this forum and others become magnets of Jeep owners with this issue, the percentage will not be fully representative. I don't know if that's the case... just something to keep in mind.

Having said this... I ordered everything to do the job although I don't have the problem...
 
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gato

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14% is pretty high. It might be skewed though if some people joined the forum due to this issue.
Yes, of course. If any automaker had a 14% failure rate on a drivetrain component, manifesting itself with a median of 15K miles, that would be boardroom level discussion.

I have a feeling that Stelantis calculations go something like this....

a) We have great margins on Rubicons
b) If it fails, Dana has to pick up the tab, so we are good.

Dana's calculations go something like this:
a) We have great margins on these Rubicon 44 axles with lockers
b) If these D44 fail, we take them back and sell them for good $$$ in the used market, which does not use the sensor anyway.

So there is no real incentive to do anything - that is, unless they cared about customer sat.
 

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49830miles on stock JLUR 2018. I started getting the service axle locker system icon message about 500 miles ago. When trying to use the lockers e.g. switching on and off the light on the switch loops into constant blinking. Both lockers show as constantly locked under off-road pages.

I am headed to the service today to see what they have to say about it but I have this bad feeling it might be the sensors.....

Any suggestions on how to deal with it? :(
For those who are curious, I went to the dealer had the vehicle inspected. They noted that they've seen this happen on a few vehicles due to some damage on the sensor wires usually the rear and having it fixed alleviates the issue. Unfortunately on mine wires were fine and they will need to do a rear axle swap to fix it. They stated that both sensors were checked with the computer and only the rear sensor was misbehaving thus they will swap the rear axle.

I explained that I've seen people complaining of consecutive sensor failure just a few hundred miles after the axle was swapped but they said there is nothing they can do at the moment except for the whole axle swap. Axles are on national backorder as per the dealer.

It is ridiculous that a whole axle needs to be changed while a single sensor swap would have fixed the issue.

@JeepCares
 
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Chief_Dan

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Added my vote.
2020 JLUR bought on 12-30-2019. Right now, I only have around 9300 miles. Job wouldn't let any of us take vacation last year & I haven't had much time off this year. Don't drive it much to work because some people keep busting our windows out & stealing stuff out of vehicles parked at the fire station. So, I've been driving my old 1990 Toyota 4x4 with a 5-speed to work.

But, did manage to use lockers 6 times over the last year & a half, while wheeling to get to some hunting & fishing spots, all local to me locations.

So far, so good. But, first diff fluid change coming soon. Will be interesting to see what the fluid looks like.
 

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Voted. Just took my JLUR to the dealership yesterday. Including the original, this will be my 3rd rear axle. 36,xxx miles. Will pot this one for sure
Sorry for your experience Brad. This is ridiculous. Seems like a total disconnect between the dealers and the manufacturer I kind of feel if this was reported properly to the manufacturer replacement sensor would become available. I am just guessing of course have no idea how the processes in this business work.
 

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2018 with 25,000 miles. Both axles have been replaced under warranty. I think this is a major problem with the design and Jeep should do more to correct their design fault. The only bright spot in the situation is the sensors are part of the drive train and are under warranty for 5years/50,000 miles.
Did they replace both at the same time? I am having issues with both of the lockers and after visiting the dealer I was told they will be replacing only my rear axle.
 

Brad41

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Sorry for your experience Brad. This is ridiculous. Seems like a total disconnect between the dealers and the manufacturer I kind of feel if this was reported properly to the manufacturer replacement sensor would become available. I am just guessing of course have no idea how the processes in this business work.
I’m just glad it’s covered under the power train warranty. On a bright note, my dealership has been great.
 

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