Rubicon has gone up $5000 since 2021?

[Whaler27]

yeah, but too bad you didn't realize the goldmine you purchased would have paid for that interest payment ten-fold in. no time

Yep. That’s the story of my life. I can’t explain it, as so many of my life choices, professional and otherwise, have exposed me to high levels of personal safety risk. I seem to tolerate that pretty well. In the past I’ve almost thrived on the adrenaline dump, but the gnawing fear from financial risk eats me up. I guess I don’t need to be rich, but I‘m scared of becoming poor.

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[Whaler27]

Wow, well good luck then, you seem to have it all figured out.

I honestly don't care what "most people" pay for loans. "most 65 year old people in 2022" have a median balance of $80K in their 401ks.. Math tells me there won't be many $700 car loans in their future. Frankly I don't want to be them either. My comments were my opinion, I never suggested you should take my path. I tried (unsucessfully obviously) to provide a different perspective.

I took my own path, lived frugally, saved well and retired at 56. If that doesn't appeal to you, each to his own and enjoy your jeep.

My "great job" was based on choices. I moved my family 7 times, lived in less desireable places and took jobs others didn't want. I worked horrendous hours and did projects away from my family and in other countries for weeks/months at a time. If that's "walking into a great job",,,,, OK, I'm guilty

I had some things to say but decided we are better off to agree to disagree.

I was very careful (or at least tried to be) to not make this a boomer vs genz debate. you're the one that started the "boomers don't get it comment" I really just tried to provide perspective.

Seems like you carry some real "boomer resentment". Sorry about that, I'm not sure how that helps you. I have no generational resentment. I have 2 sons. One millenial, one Genz. I love them both.

My wife was a waitress for years. She worked at a popular chain restaurant. Her last manager was a guy from India who arrived in the US with less than $500 to his name. His first job was washing dishes at the restaurant. Twenty-five years later he was managing the place. As it turns out, has was also working as a night-time janitor and he managed to keep two full-time jobs for most of that time. He lived in a crappy part of town in a small duplex, drove a crappy car, and was still using a cheap flip phone when my wife’s sister in law retired from the restaurant about five years ago. We all saw him as “poor”, so we were shocked to learn that he was able to give his daughter $100,000 in cash and a nice, modest, debt-free home when she got married. The guy busted his ass, lived far below his means, and saved aggressively and prudently for a couple decades.

The manager retired from the restaurant shortly after the sister in law retired. We assumed he was living the good life, but we learned that he and his wife had purchased a small 40 room hotel near the university. I’m sure there are plenty of folks who resent them for doing so well, but I have nothing but respect and admiration. If I had worked half that hard, and lived half that frugally, I’d have been retired long ago and with much greater financial margin.

A Mexican guy who did some concrete work for us had a similar story. His whole family shared in the concrete jobs, including his two sisters, both of whom also worked as hotel maids and waitresses. The family became friends, so we were invited to a big “Quinceanera” for their young niece. We thought it would be a modest family event. Instead, they had rented a huge rec-center. They provided a live band and food and beer for more than 200 people — and that was just the first night of a two day celebration.

Some folks are just happy to work and eager to make the best of their opportunities. I think the depression generation was similar. Most of the rest of us seem to be getting soft and entitled.

 

[aldo98229]

Speaking in generalities, divorce represents the biggest financial setback for men and the biggest gain for women.

Moral of the story: if you are a man, don’t get divorced. Actually, don’t even get married. Kids are freaking expensive... !

 

[rickinAZ]

divorce represents the biggest financial setback for men

Intutively, your point sounds correct, but this says that just the opposite is true:
https://aacfl.org/impact-of-divorce-on-the-finances-of-men-women-and-children

 

[aldo98229]

Intutively, your point sounds correct, but this says that just the opposite is true:
https://aacfl.org/impact-of-divorce-on-the-finances-of-men-women-and-children

The article agrees that men —and children— suffer financially from a divorce. Where the article differs is that women also suffer financially.

What I found more interesting, though, is:

“This study also found that when a father leaves a childless marriage, his income immediately increases by 25%.“

So the corollary is: if yer gonna get divorced, do it before popping a baby.

 

[40Caliber]

Yep. That’s the story of my life. I can’t explain it, as so many of my life choices, professional and otherwise, have exposed me to high levels of personal safety risk. I seem to tolerate that pretty well. In the past I’ve almost thrived on the adrenaline dump, but the gnawing fear from financial risk eats me up. I guess I don’t need to be rich, but I‘m scared of becoming poor.

yea ,
my parents got divorced when i was 12. probably another reason security matters to me.
She made minimum wage , dad refused to help and I have bored my kids to death with the first year of "no money and funky meals we ate" stories. She found and married a good man with a good business, which was a godsend.

all I can say is , for a limited time I got a taste of being poor,,, not horrendously poor, not screaming poverty poor..... but poor enough that I absolutely don't want to do it again.

 

[Whaler27]

if a $700 a month car loan blows your mind. I don’t know what to tell you, buddy. The average price of a new car in 2022 is $48,000. Even with 0% for 5 years, thats $800 a month. With no taxes etc etc.

most the people on this forum have jeeps that sticker for way more than that and most have payments are closer to $1000 than they are to $700.

Focusing on a payment and not total cost of a vehicle is a fools errand. No matter if you lose your shirt on trading in your car, and rolling that mistake into the next car, or you make a huge down payment, or you pay cash, all that matters is how much money you actually spent on that vehicle, and what it’s worth. That’s it. Nothing else.

Doesn’t matter if your payment is $3,000 a month or if it’s $300 a month, if you end up with $50,000 2022 dollars in it, that’s what you end up spending. If you spend some of those 2022 dollars in 2025, when you get paid more 2025 dollars than you got paid 2022 dollars, then that’s a win. You have less money in the car then.

Here is actual average new car payments for 2022 are $667 a month for 69.5 months.


https://www.bankrate.com/loans/auto-loans/average-monthly-car-payment/

younger people do get it. Boomers were able to walk on to good paying jobs, get hired, work somewhere for 20 years and get a fat retirement and then go back out there and continue to mess up the job market for everyone again. You bought houses for 200% of average yearly wages. When now a house is 600% of average yearly wage.

High interest rates and some inflation in the past scared a group of you so much that you want to have $3.5 million dollars in your 401k and $300,000 in a bank account and drive around in paid off $10,000 cars and tell genx or anyone younger than you how buying a $600 a month car is going to ruin you for life because of all these made up scary scenarios might (will never) happen.

Unless you are retired, you are going to have to have some sort of job. So planning some sort of scenario where I don’t have a job and have a car payment, isn’t happening. If things really get that bad, and I can’t pay for my car, the bank can have it. I have paid for cars I can drive. But if the economy is so bad that I can’t get a job to cover a $600 car payment, my electric and my food, then the car payment is the least of my worries because everyone is f’ed at that point.

money is only useful when you get rid of it. I drove paid for sh*t boxes for years. Wasted time, money, life, stress on them. When I should have done what I just figured out in the past 5-7 years. Buy a good solid car that keeps its value, make payments on it and most importantly enjoy life. Enjoy driving something that isn’t something that is “a good financial decision” or “good gas mileage”. Have a vehicle that is “man this is fun” and “I love having no doors and no top on” or “damn this thing is fast” because in the end you can’t take it with you and having a bunch of pretend numbers on a computer while not enjoying life is no way to live.

I get it. When I was in my early 30s I was sure I got the shaft too, because my wife and I both had to work to make ends meet and our home ownership plans were repeatedly delayed because property taxes kept climbing, the houses were nearly four times the price my parents paid (because herds of Californians were already pushing Oregon home values beyond local salaries), and mortgage interest rates had climbed to over 10%.

Of course, my parent’s house had no AC or wall-to-wall carpeting. They had only one car, there was no TV, and there were very few non-essential things to spend money on. They didn’t have twenty pairs of shoes. It was a simpler life.

My kids, all in their 30s, are doing just fine. Their opportunities are abundant and, with the exception of the one who is still serving in the military, they are making more in inflation-adjusted dollars than I did at their age. They will be fine, and I suspect you will be fine too, as long as you‘re working enough (or spending so little), that your‘re saving at least 12% to 15% of your income.

There is one big generational change we’re seeing at my work. Fifteen years ago we used to have to protect overtime shifts by limiting the number of extra shifts people could sign up for until the opportunities had been posted at least two weeks. That was necessary because older guys were waiting for the shifts to be posted and then signing up for two or three shifts, so nothing was left for the guys who were on days off or working different shifts. These days overtime shifts routinely remain posted for more than a month without getting filled. This isn’t unique to us, and it’s not related to covid. People just seem less inclined to work. It’s a significant challenge, because it ultimately translates to needing more people to do the same volume of work. (It’s also one of the reasons we love hiring veterans and kids who grew up on farms or ranches, as they are used to working until the job is done.)

 

[Sparty]

“This study also found that when a father leaves a childless marriage, his income immediately increases by 25%.“

This seems like a trick statement....

 

[jxh034]

18 months ago Rubicon 4xe vs today is 12k more on average

 

[Kyanche]

I get it. When I was in my early 30s I was sure I got the shaft too, because my wife and both had to work to make ends meet and our home ownership plans were repeatedly delayed because property taxes kept climbing, the houses were nearly four times the price my parents paid (because herds of Californians were already pushing Oregon home values beyond local salaries), and mortgage interest rates had climbed to over 10%.

Of course, my parent’s house had no AC or wall-to-wall carpeting. They had only one car, there was no TV, and there were very few non-essential things to spend money on. They didn’t have twenty pair of shoes. It was a simpler life.

My kids, all in their 30s, are doing just fine. Their opportunities are abundant and, with the exception of the one who is still serving in the military, they are making more in inflation-adjusted dollars than I did at their age. They will be fine, and I suspect you will be fine too, as long as you‘re working enough (or spending so little), that your‘re saving at least 12% to 15% of your income.

There is one big generational change we’re seeing at my work. Fifteen years ago we used to have to protect overtime shifts by limiting the number of extra shifts people could sign up for until the opportunities had been posted at least two weeks. That was necessary because older guys were waiting for the shifts to be posted and then signing up for two or three shifts, so nothing was left for the guys who were on days off or working different shifts. These days overtime shifts routinely remain posted for more than a month without getting filled. This isn’t unique to us, and it’s not related to covid. People just seem less inclined to work. It’s a significant challenge, because it ultimately translates to needing more people to do the same volume of work. (It’s also one of the reasons we love hiring veterans and kids who grew up on farms or ranches, as they are used to working until the job is done.)

So what do you think we should do?

 

[CT_LFC]

My wife was a waitress for years. She worked at a popular chain restaurant. Her last manager was a guy from India who arrived in the US with less than $500 to his name. His first job was washing dishes at the restaurant. Twenty-five years later he was managing the place. As it turns out, has was also working as a night-time janitor and he managed to keep two full-time jobs for most of that time. He lived in a crappy part of town in a small duplex, drove a crappy car, and was still using a cheap flip phone when my wife’s sister in law retired from the restaurant about five years ago. We all saw him as “poor”, so we were shocked to learn that he was able to give his daughter $100,000 in cash and a nice, modest, debt-free home when she got married. The guy busted his ass, lived far below his means, and saved aggressively and prudently for a couple decades.

The manager retired from the restaurant shortly after the sister in law retired. We assumed he was living the good life, but we learned that he and his wife had purchased a small 40 room hotel near the university. I’m sure there are plenty of folks who resent them for doing so well, but I have nothing but respect and admiration. If I had worked half that hard, and lived half that frugally, I’d have been retired long ago and with much greater financial margin.

My cousin married a guy from India. Frugal like i could not believe when i heard about it. Use washer at night when electric rates are cheaper, no dryer. Wash dishes by hand because dishwasher uses more water and electricity. Barely any air conditioning in the summer, etc etc. He's a successful engineer and saves every penny possible then goes out and buys houses to rent....generally cash.

 

[Whaler27]

So what do you think we should do?

I don’t know.

I worked 60+ hour weeks for most of my adult life, and there were long stretches where I averaged over 70 hour weeks. I missed a bunch of my kids growing up as a result. I could have lived more frugally for sure, but I wanted to live more comfortably, give my kids more opportunities, and indulge myself too. I wouldn’t want to live like that restaurant manager in the example above — so I’ll never be as successful/wealthy as he is.

I’d definitely do some things differently, and I’d avoid some of my dumber purchases, but I’d still default to working hard and saving money. I don’t really know how not to work. It’s one of the challenges delaying retirement. I can’t figure out what all the healthy, young, non-workers do all day. There’s only so much hunting, fishing, recreating, and screwing off I can do before I start feeling useless.

I guess we all get to make our own choices and then live with the consequences. One thing I’m sure we shouldn‘t do is whine about our circumstance and pretend somebody else is responsible for it.

I DO worry about ending up with a whole culture that’s less interested in work. Our society won’t function as it always has unless a fair chunk of us remain willing to pull the country’s economic plow and fight our country’s battles. It seems like our latest generation isn’t much interested in either.

 

[Whaler27]

My cousin married a guy from India. Frugal like i could not believe when i heard about it. Use washer at night when electric rates are cheaper, no dryer. Wash dishes by hand because dishwasher uses more water and electricity. Barely any air conditioning in the summer, etc etc. He's a successful engineer and saves every penny possible then goes out and buys houses to rent....generally cash.

He’ll become wealthy. He’s living his “American dream”, while many of his American-born peers are working less, sporting the latest $1100 cell phones, buying $300 Nikes, high-def big screens, and cars they can’t afford, and then complaining that they can’t manage the lifestyle they want.

I’m at the end of my career now. I have been in management for most of the last twenty-five years. Today our biggest challenges are recruitment and retention of qualified people. On the recruitment side, a growing proportion of American high school and college graduates aren’t physically fit enough to pass our PT test and, even when they really want the job, they aren’t willing to do what it takes to get fit enough. I still struggle to wrap my brain around that, as the bar is pretty low. I was still able to meet our PT standard for a 30 year old when I was in my mid-fifties and struggling with a back injury, and I’m no great athlete. It’s hard to imagine not being able to find enough healthy 21 to 30 year olds who are willing and able to meet it, but that’s where we stand today.

At a recent in-service training one of the speakers recommended two books by the same author: “Not Everyone Gets a Trophy” and “It’s Okay to be The Boss”, both highly recommended on Amazon. According to the speaker, the books provide guidance on how to create a softer, kinder, more welcoming work environment that lays out step by step requirements for advancement. — because our new twenty-and-thirty somethings have such radically different expectations and thought processes from their predecessors. They don’t value the “suck it up and do what it takes to overcome” mentality.

All of this makes me think that our next generation of young marines and successful business owners will be disproportionately comprised of young people who came to the US from other countries, as most of them seem to expect to work hard and make sacrifices in order to succeed.

 

[40Caliber]

I don’t know.

I worked 60+ hour weeks for most of my adult life, and there were long stretches where I averaged over 70 hour weeks. I missed a bunch of my kids growing up as a result. I could have lived more frugally for sure, but I wanted to live more comfortably, give my kids more opportunities, and indulge myself too. I wouldn’t want to live like that restaurant manager in the example above — so I’ll never be as successful/wealthy as he is.

I’d definitely do some things differently, and I’d avoid some of my dumber purchases, but I’d still default to working hard and saving money. I don’t really know how not to work. It’s one of the challenges delaying retirement. I can’t figure out what all the healthy, young, non-workers do all day. There’s only so much hunting, fishing, recreating, and screwing off I can do before I start feeling useless.

I guess we all get to make our own choices and then live with the consequences. One thing I’m sure we shouldn‘t do is whine about our circumstance and pretend somebody else is responsible for it.

I DO worry about ending up with a whole culture that’s less interested in work. Our society won’t function as it always has unless a fair chunk of us remain willing to pull the country’s economic plow and fight our country’s battles. It seems like our latest generation isn’t much interested in either.

you do know and you just stated it above. It was what I was trying to get through before in my comments. I know plenty boomers that live for today that ask me "how did you retire so early? I wish I could have done that"... when in reality a good portion had bigger salaries than i did.

I fully agree with you . Whining about our circumstances and being the victim just allows us to not look in the mirror and figure out a better way. we are human beings with brains. we can figure out a better way.

the examples here about people from other countries needing to learn the language and work their asses off and get ahead are pure examples the american dream still exists.

I have a friend that moved from Morrocco joined the marines, went to college and worked for a fortune 500 company. He told me about 4 years ago he had saved/ invested and made $1million in 18 years. He also lived in a more expensive neighborhood than me and drove a used BMW. it's not like he was eating Ra Men.
That's not bad for arriving in the USA with $300 in your pocket.

 

[BrntWS6]

Speaking in generalities, divorce represents the biggest financial setback for men and the biggest gain for women.

Moral of the story: if you are a man, don’t get divorced. Actually, don’t even get married. Kids are freaking expensive... !

I believe in marriage, been married for 23 years. But women today have a financial incentive to get divorced and they initiate 80% of divorce. I have told my teenage son to not even bother getting married.

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