Rubicon 37s no lift

Seanst34

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Couldn't disagree more. I think guys like lunchbox are trying to cut off as much plastic crap and pinch seam as they need to in order to get full articulation out of their stock suspension. The rubi comes stock with some pretty respectable wheel travel numbers, and if you can get all of that travel but with 37s, then you have one potent rig. For me, increasing your ride height should be a last case solution to a problem that can't be solved any other way... not something you do just so you can cram 2-3" of extra bump stop in order for your tires to clear stuff that can easily be cut or removed. There are so many negative implications with a lift (wheel base changes, caster/pinion angle changes, axles off-centered, driveshaft angles, center of gravity/roll center, control arm bind with long shocks, high steer/raised track bars limiting up-travel, etc etc etc) that there's no way I would mess with it unless I needed extra ride height for a very specific purpose. If you're just trying to fit tires, well that's what angle grinders and sawzalls are for. Ground clearance is overrated too. Approach and departure angles are better addressed by low profile bumpers and bigger tires. A 4 door is going to have a shit breakover angle no matter what you do, a 3 inch lift only gives you an extra 5 degrees or so. And at least in the rocks, a lower car with larger tires might actually scrape less than a higher car with smaller tires. 37s tend to fill out the gaps and valleys between rocks better than 35s, to the extent that the car with 37s won't dip down as much, keeping the frame rails off of stuff.
We can agree to disagree on all your points above accept for the affect of larger tires. I agree that height is better bought by tires due to gaining height at the lowest point if your rig as in the pumpkins. From dealing with my own 37” tires on a Ruby with a 2” lift your never going to cut and grind your way to full clearance fully flexed and disconnected. Even with the lift I had to trim my wheel well liners. On a Ruby JL with 35” tires look small compared to 35” on a JK due to the high clearance fenders but you still need a lift of some sort and 2” seems to be perfect in it opinion. Keeps the height low enough to maintain day to day performance but buys you clearance for tires plus approach and departure angle as well as side rail clearance. Lastly increased rollover potential and center of gravity is mitigated by larger wheel base of mist aftermarket wheels and wider 37” tires. If you go 37” on a stick Ruby all you’ve done is created an expensive mall crawler...why?
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LunchBoxFab

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There are so many negative implications with a lift (wheel base changes, caster/pinion angle changes, axles off-centered, driveshaft angles, center of gravity/roll center, control arm bind with long shocks, high steer/raised track bars limiting up-travel, etc etc etc) that there's no way I would mess with it unless I needed extra ride height for a very specific purpose.
We can agree to disagree on all your points above accept for the affect of larger tires.
and if you disagree with all of these suspension implications of a lift kit, im not sure we have much to discuss here.
 

scrape

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thats an opinion

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Looks good dude, seems like you didn't need to trim that pinch seam at all? Fits like a glove.

We can agree to disagree on all your points above accept for the affect of larger tires. I agree that height is better bought by tires due to gaining height at the lowest point if your rig as in the pumpkins. From dealing with my own 37” tires on a Ruby with a 2” lift your never going to cut and grind your way to full clearance fully flexed and disconnected. Even with the lift I had to trim my wheel well liners. On a Ruby JL with 35” tires look small compared to 35” on a JK due to the high clearance fenders but you still need a lift of some sort and 2” seems to be perfect in it opinion. Keeps the height low enough to maintain day to day performance but buys you clearance for tires plus approach and departure angle as well as side rail clearance. Lastly increased rollover potential and center of gravity is mitigated by larger wheel base of mist aftermarket wheels and wider 37” tires. If you go 37” on a stick Ruby all you’ve done is created an expensive mall crawler...why?
You can most certainly cut and trim your way to 37s on stock bumps. I did it with 37s on my JK and there are examples of doing it with 40s on a JK (EVO vengeance, Poison Spyder BAJK). On my JK I had to cut a radius out of my rear pinch seam, and in front had to cut the fender brackets off and notch the grill. No big deal really. And I still don't see how you think 37s on stock suspension hurts off road performance and turns it into a mall crawler. Again, you have exactly the same wheel travel and articulation as a stock rubi (which is pretty good), but with significantly larger tires. You can also run those 0" Fox shocks for even more articulation without bottoming the shocks out with stock bump stops.

With a lift, there are some things you simply cannot correct without adversely affecting something else. Look at lunchbox's picture of his rear tire. If he had a lift, his wheel base would get smaller at ride height due to the control arms being at a steeper angle, pulling the front tire back, and pushing the rear tire forward. If he had longer adjustable control arms to correct his wheel base at ride height, then when fully stuffed, his rear tire would be pushed back well into that pinch seam. Also, caster and pinion angle are tied together. If you lift and correct your caster angle with adjustable control arms, then you make your pinion angle even worse. Which is fine if you keep the FAD, but if you ditch the FAD and go to a 1 piece shaft, you're going to have driveline vibes and driveshaft issues The only way to properly correct caster and pinion angle on a lifted jeep is to cut off your Cs and re-weld them at a different angle or go with an aftermarket housing that has a higher degree of separation and/or lockout hubs.

Now I realize the no lift setup isn't for everyone, it's pretty obvious since lift kits were the first JL parts to market, and every single post in here is about "what lift kit should I get". But no lift is totally viable, and when done correctly, I think you have a better performing all-around car. That's just my opinion having both lifted and non lifted jeeps on big tires.
 

LunchBoxFab

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Looks good dude, seems like you didn't need to trim that pinch seam at all? Fits like a glove.
thanks, it looks to be cool for now. im going to run it as long as i can. i see no need to lift it at this point.
 

Seanst34

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Looks good dude, seems like you didn't need to trim that pinch seam at all? Fits like a glove.



You can most certainly cut and trim your way to 37s on stock bumps. I did it with 37s on my JK and there are examples of doing it with 40s on a JK (EVO vengeance, Poison Spyder BAJK). On my JK I had to cut a radius out of my rear pinch seam, and in front had to cut the fender brackets off and notch the grill. No big deal really. And I still don't see how you think 37s on stock suspension hurts off road performance and turns it into a mall crawler. Again, you have exactly the same wheel travel and articulation as a stock rubi (which is pretty good), but with significantly larger tires. You can also run those 0" Fox shocks for even more articulation without bottoming the shocks out with stock bump stops.

With a lift, there are some things you simply cannot correct without adversely affecting something else. Look at lunchbox's picture of his rear tire. If he had a lift, his wheel base would get smaller at ride height due to the control arms being at a steeper angle, pulling the front tire back, and pushing the rear tire forward. If he had longer adjustable control arms to correct his wheel base at ride height, then when fully stuffed, his rear tire would be pushed back well into that pinch seam. Also, caster and pinion angle are tied together. If you lift and correct your caster angle with adjustable control arms, then you make your pinion angle even worse. Which is fine if you keep the FAD, but if you ditch the FAD and go to a 1 piece shaft, you're going to have driveline vibes and driveshaft issues The only way to properly correct caster and pinion angle on a lifted jeep is to cut off your Cs and re-weld them at a different angle or go with an aftermarket housing that has a higher degree of separation and/or lockout hubs.

Now I realize the no lift setup isn't for everyone, it's pretty obvious since lift kits were the first JL parts to market, and every single post in here is about "what lift kit should I get". But no lift is totally viable, and when done correctly, I think you have a better performing all-around car. That's just my opinion having both lifted and non lifted jeeps on big tires.
After lifting mine caster and pinion were within spec no problem. Lift kit came with longer control arms for me but of course you need to make sure you get a quality kit or additional adjustable control arms. Still not buying the trim and cut stock with 37s. I would need to see flexed front and rear pics with trimming to even start to believe. If that pic is of a fully stuffed 37” tire with the front disconnected and fully flexed I’m the fregin pope because I’ve done it with and rubbed the rear pinch weld with a 35.
thanks, it looks to be cool for now. im going to run it as long as i can. i see no need to lift it at this point.
I’m not buying that its fully flexed front and rear. I’ve flexed it on the trail and hit the liner with a 2” lift and 37s. The liner is less than a 1/4” off the pinch seem. In fact I heat molded itband still had issues until I cut it out. If it works for you great.
 

Seanst34

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Looks good dude, seems like you didn't need to trim that pinch seam at all? Fits like a glove.



You can most certainly cut and trim your way to 37s on stock bumps. I did it with 37s on my JK and there are examples of doing it with 40s on a JK (EVO vengeance, Poison Spyder BAJK). On my JK I had to cut a radius out of my rear pinch seam, and in front had to cut the fender brackets off and notch the grill. No big deal really. And I still don't see how you think 37s on stock suspension hurts off road performance and turns it into a mall crawler. Again, you have exactly the same wheel travel and articulation as a stock rubi (which is pretty good), but with significantly larger tires. You can also run those 0" Fox shocks for even more articulation without bottoming the shocks out with stock bump stops.

With a lift, there are some things you simply cannot correct without adversely affecting something else. Look at lunchbox's picture of his rear tire. If he had a lift, his wheel base would get smaller at ride height due to the control arms being at a steeper angle, pulling the front tire back, and pushing the rear tire forward. If he had longer adjustable control arms to correct his wheel base at ride height, then when fully stuffed, his rear tire would be pushed back well into that pinch seam. Also, caster and pinion angle are tied together. If you lift and correct your caster angle with adjustable control arms, then you make your pinion angle even worse. Which is fine if you keep the FAD, but if you ditch the FAD and go to a 1 piece shaft, you're going to have driveline vibes and driveshaft issues The only way to properly correct caster and pinion angle on a lifted jeep is to cut off your Cs and re-weld them at a different angle or go with an aftermarket housing that has a higher degree of separation and/or lockout hubs.

Now I realize the no lift setup isn't for everyone, it's pretty obvious since lift kits were the first JL parts to market, and every single post in here is about "what lift kit should I get". But no lift is totally viable, and when done correctly, I think you have a better performing all-around car. That's just my opinion having both lifted and non lifted jeeps on big tires.
BTW castor and pinion where within spec after the lift. No need to switch out drive shaft either although after 3” you might have to. General problem with this conversation is we are talking geometries. Offset, wheel width, control arm length, ect...all affect the performance of the Jeep. If somehow you’ve found that dropping 37s on a stock Ruby works then good for you. I wouldn’t even like the look let alone the performance. At the end of the day Jeepers JEEP so have fun with your rig
 

scrape

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@Seanst34 good points all around. It’s definitely a minority opinion to go without a lift and whether it works for you depends on the kind of trails you do, your wheel base, skids, bumpers, etc. It may not work for you and like you said, at the end of the day it’s your Jeep, make it your own.
 

LunchBoxFab

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I wouldn’t even like the look let alone the performance.
thanks for your opinon. again - super helpful

if you want to discuss geometry, maybe take that spacer lift off and work out some real issues.
 

Cherry Bomb

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37's, stock height...........

Iysg0Sa.jpg
I guess that pic quieted things down. I run 37s on my 19 JLUR, no issues stock. Plan on a lift but it's dropped in priority.
 

LunchBoxFab

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Yeah...crickets.
i hear them too.

to each his own, for me im going to stay as low as possible.

we're headed to Hot Springs AR next weekend to drag her across the rocks, see if i can eat some fender.
 

LunchBoxFab

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Yeah....as much as I like the stability...I think if we get serious about wheeling this Jeep on the trails around here, it's going to have to go up at least 2"....The belly clearance is just too low for the trails here. I *might* be able to keep it low if I remake the X-members and make a new/buy a new gas tank that sits flush with the frame rails.

We'll see.....
i just bolted on the Motobilt skid system. i really like it in the garage. i hope i like it as much in the rocks.
 

Fire Burns

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To be fair, the @Sean K. pic may indeed be fully stuffed in the front, but also running with no fenders at all. Most guys aren't going to do that. Also appears the rear is barely articulated but already significantly interfering with the rear fender. That said, not trying to troll this thread, just an observation.

I actually came here because I'm about to run 37x12.50R20 Ridge Grapplers on a 0 offset wheel. Spending all my $$ on this wheel and tire combo and won't be able to afford a lift for awhile.

Good news is this thread has taught me that my plan is doable on my otherwise stock '18 JLUR!

Great thread guys!
 

lsp408

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What kind of spare tire carrier are you using?



•Nitto Ridge Grappler 37x13.5r17
•No lift
•No rub on-road
•Will rub off-road
•Running at 26 PSI
•No regear needed on 2.0 Turbo (can spin the tires at full accel and have no problem with 8th gear on the highway)

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Coolbaldguy

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subscribed...anyone have a 2 door rubi with no lift on 37's.
 
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