Roof crossbars or racks with soft top?

TrailJoy

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Gotcha! Hope you find something that works well for your needs. I have a basket but need to test it out. Not even sure what I’m going to put up there :facepalm:
Sorry, I reread my comment and it sounded a bit rude. My "bent out of shape" comment was a giggle at the joke of the gutters being bent out of shape. I wasn't laughing at your comment.

I think I will end up with the Thule Evo. It seems like a more solid option (also I like the key) and it's also a bit easier to order here in Canada. There is only one place I found in my city who sells Rhino Rack products, but their fee includes shipping. I just don't like the store, so I'm happy to pay more at a store I like for a Thule.





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IronScott

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Sorry, I reread my comment and it sounded a bit rude. My "bent out of shape" comment was a giggle at the joke of the gutters being bent out of shape. I wasn't laughing at your comment.

I think I will end up with the Thule Evo. It seems like a more solid option (also I like the key) and it's also a bit easier to order here in Canada. There is only one place I found in my city who sells Rhino Rack products, but their fee includes shipping. I just don't like the store, so I'm happy to pay more at a store I like for a Thule.
All good here. Reading posts is often difficult to interpret.

Frankly, I bought the MOPAR bars because a guy was selling them for $120 locally and he had only mounted but not used them. I got Yakima lock cores that fit right in. I swear I read that Yakima makes the MOPAR bars but not 100% sure about that. Thule makes awesome products, and they look great, too.

If I end up really enjoying overlanding, I’ll probably get a full hard install rack but that’s too much investment for me without knowing if I really need it. Drilling into the top isn’t too appealing, either.
 

TrailJoy

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I swear I read that Yakima makes the MOPAR bars but not 100% sure about that.
It's funny that you'd mention this because the guy from my local store told me this yesterday. He said that a lot of products that are sold on the Mopar site have the same item number as the brand, and often at a higher price. I think, anyway... I don't want to misquote him, but he did mention something exactly to this effect that Mopar bought them out (or something). He wasn't able to order in Yakima, and that was why.
 

entropy

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It's funny that you'd mention this because the guy from my local store told me this yesterday. He said that a lot of products that are sold on the Mopar site have the same item number as the brand, and often at a higher price. I think, anyway... I don't want to misquote him, but he did mention something exactly to this effect that Mopar bought them out (or something). He wasn't able to order in Yakima, and that was why.
From quadratec, on the EVO rack:
Note: This rack has a distributed dynamic load rating of 70kg / 154lbs. It is advised to not carry items at high speeds that can create lift (upward force to due to wind) such as but not limited to kayaks, surfboards etc.
 

TrailJoy

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From quadratec, on the EVO rack:
Note: This rack has a distributed dynamic load rating of 70kg / 154lbs. It is advised to not carry items at high speeds that can create lift (upward force to due to wind) such as but not limited to kayaks, surfboards etc.
Thanks! I wonder if this is due not to possible damage of the gutter rails, but instead to the mounts popping off altogether?
 

entropy

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Thanks! I wonder if this is due not to possible damage of the gutter rails, but instead to the mounts popping off altogether?
I am going to guess it is damage to the gutter mounts and top, and the possibility of your kayak flying off the Jeep on the highway at 80mph and going straight into another vehicle, killing the other driver and/or passenger. Leaving you with a liability issue for your entire life.

That lift force also causes a reactionary downward force from the stern, the couple forms a clockwise torque. That torque itself could cause damage. The exposed racks from SMS would theoretically deal with the downward force at the stern better since it is better distributed.

However people do this a lot, and I have never heard a horror story like that. Being aware of this is what's important, do your research on how to safely mount kayaks using straps and all that. I see too many people don't attach the bow to the front frame which is very dangerous. See, when lift occurs it is going to pull the kayak up from the bow if you have a properly tied ratchet strap from the bow of the kayak to the front frame of the jeep the force will be transferred to the strap which transfers it to the frame. In case of a major failure on the gutters your kayak is still attached. I also attach a strap to the stern. That kayak is not going anywhere :CWL:

I am not worried about the damage to the top as much as liability.
 

TrailJoy

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I am going to guess it is damage to the gutter mounts and top, and the possibility of your kayak flying off the Jeep on the highway at 80mph and going straight into another vehicle, killing the other driver and/or passenger. Leaving you with a liability issue for your entire life.

That lift force also causes a reactionary downward force from the stern, the couple forms a clockwise torque. That torque itself could cause damage. The exposed racks from SMS would theoretically deal with the downward force at the stern better since it is better distributed.

However people do this a lot, and I have never heard a horror story like that. Being aware of this is what's important, do your research on how to safely mount kayaks using straps and all that. I see too many people don't attach the bow to the front frame which is very dangerous. See, when lift occurs it is going to pull the kayak up from the bow if you have a properly tied ratchet strap from the bow of the kayak to the front frame of the jeep the force will be transferred to the strap which transfers it to the frame. In case of a major failure on the gutters your kayak is still attached. I also attach a strap to the stern. That kayak is not going anywhere :CWL:
80 MPH??! What's the limit where you live? lol VERY rarely will I ever drive above 65. (The limits here are 100km/hr, and I'm not a speeder - ESPECIALLY not if I'm driving with a loaded kayak or SUP, which I drive much more carefully and with more situational awareness).

That's a really good tip about tying it down though. The tie down rule (from my understanding) on my previous vehicles (SUV, etc) was only necessary if your kayak extended a certain amount past the windshield or tail of the vehicle (which mine didn't). I imagine this would be very different on a Jeep (shorter) with gutter mounted rails.
 

entropy

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80 MPH??! What's the limit where you live? lol VERY rarely will I ever drive above 65. (The limits here are 100km/hr, and I'm not a speeder - ESPECIALLY not if I'm driving with a loaded kayak or SUP, which I drive much more carefully and with more situational awareness).
I would personally do it with any kayak for peace of mind and because it takes 1 minute. But yeah, a 30lbs 10ft recreational yak is fine. The thing is, it doesn't really matter how careful you are when considering lift forces, it is all about aerodynamics. The lift force is always there and it is generated by a pressure differential created by the fluid dynamics (wind) on the kayak, the pressure under the kayak is higher than the pressure above the kayak which drives the wind upwards creating lift. This force I assume would mostly depend on wind resistance (which is relative to traveling speed), angle of attack (this increases the pressure differential), and surface area of the kayak.

Travelling at speeds of 65mph is fast enough to create a considerable lift force. And a kayak that doesn't extend past the windshield will have less wind resistance as the flow is diverted by the windshield, which is why kayak hitchmounts are actually safer than gutter mounted crossbars, and why the hitchmount rack manufacturers states to not carry any kayak over 13ft without use of stabilizers, which basically means the strap from bow to frame.
 

TrailJoy

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Thanks, @entropy! I 100% agree. Although I'm still curious why/where y'all drive 130 km/hr... lol

Editing to add: Now that I think about it, it makes sense why this is so much more important on a JK who's rails don't extend all the way to the back, forcing you to put the front bar on the removable panels (and bringing the kayaks that much further over the windshield). Food for thought anyway. :like:
 

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Thanks, @entropy! I 100% agree. Although I'm still curious why/where y'all drive 130 km/hr... lol

Editing to add: Now that I think about it, it makes sense why this is so much more important on a JK who's rails don't extend all the way to the back, forcing you to put the front bar on the removable panels (and bringing the kayaks that much further over the windshield). Food for thought anyway. :like:
Los Angeles. Speed limit on the freeway is 70mph at some places, driving +5 over is legal and everyone drives +10 over. 10,15 over the speed limit is very common and cops don't care. When I commute on my corolla I go 75 ~ 80 and people pass me :CWL:. I don't go over 70 on the Jeep.

Why? because most people are always in a rush and anxious and dying of heart attacks.
 

TrailJoy

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Los Angeles. Speed limit on the freeway is 70mph at some places, driving +5 over is legal and everyone drives +10 over. 10,15 over the speed limit is very common and cops don't care. When I commute on my corolla I go 75 ~ 80 and people pass me :CWL:. I don't go over 70 on the Jeep.
THAT'S LIKE 140 KM/HR!!! That's insanity! LOL!! I've been known to speed a bit when I was younger, but never that fast, and never on a regular basis. You guys all need to check your bucket lists before y'all get dead. I can't believe the cops don't care! Crazy. 70 is good. Stick with 70. LOL
 

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What about adding an extra tie down down to the loops on the hood? I know I’ve seen people do that. That would seem to severely limit the possibility of lifting off.
 

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From quadratec, on the EVO rack:
Note: This rack has a distributed dynamic load rating of 70kg / 154lbs. It is advised to not carry items at high speeds that can create lift (upward force to due to wind) such as but not limited to kayaks, surfboards etc.
I was out shopping today and we found a Thule on sale. We have 90 days to return it so we bought it... but it got me wondering what the difference is between mounting a Thule cargo carrier (Pulse, 88" long) and something like a surfboard. If the racks aren't recommended for use with kayaks/SUP/surfboards (etc), would that also include cargo carriers?
 

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What about adding an extra tie down down to the loops on the hood? I know I’ve seen people do that. That would seem to severely limit the possibility of lifting off.
I wouldn't do that. I don't know what kind of force those loops are supposed to sustain, and you could end up damaging them or your hood. The proper way to do it is to transfer the force to the steel frame, and there are several ways to do that. One way is that if you have loops on your bumper, you can use them as they are directly connected to the frame. I don't have those so what I do is hook it up in one of the holes of the frame right under the bumper. It is really easy and takes the same amount of time it would take to hook to the hood.
 

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