Rolling my Jeep JL on highway makes me think....

Turfman

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Great to see you writing about your experience and your thoughts on what led up to it.

I agree with the different tires and traction section wholeheartedly! Mud tires are not made for everyday driving unless you live where it’s dirt roads! When making a change you need to understand this from that point forward! Under wet conditions I use to slow down well below the speed limit of simply get off the road until they get better, much like when riding my bike! Best case scenario is that you have a bad weather vehicle to use for these conditions, like when using a motorcycle. It really scares me when I see so many lifted mallcrawlers today. Most of these people do not understand what they have.

Lifting any vehicle above factory height automatically places you at a higher risk for turnover. Slight lifts can be compensated by making the stance wider through offset rims of spacers. I have a JRUL that I spaced out 2” on each side because I wanted to reduce the chance of a rollover on factory tires. This is because I understand the limitations of my rig. I have owned several lifted trucks in the past and have learned what can happen. I chose to try to be safer in today’s bad driver world.
That being said I also understand the desire to lift a Jeep! It looks awesome! But let’s be truthful! It’s not needed for over half the lifted Jeeps on the road today!

The factors you really did not discuss much was your surroundings during your accident. We know about the idiot driver and the fact that you went off the road with two tires but not what else was around you. I say this because years back I caught a blowout on the front right of a lifted Toyota when I struck something in the road. When my truck took off hard to the right I had room to allow it to go off the road and come to a stop instead of having to cut back towards the road. This room allowed me not to roll the truck.

Through the years with a lot of motorcycle riding I have trained myself to be aware of all my surroundings. This was not easy and was also the one hardest thing to train my wife in when I taught her to ride a motorcycle! It seems that at anytime today I am always looking for a way out if I am run off the road or something happens. Having two tires go off the road is not the end if you can slow down before trying to get them back on the road. Being able to let yourself go all the way off and come to a stop would also not be a bad thing as long as there is not obstructions there. In order to make these split second decisions though you must first be able to know what you are up against. Much like swerving for animals in the road. This has caused more accidents then anything. Yes you do not enjoy killing an animal, but killing people with you or other motorist would be worse. Remember that if a vehicle gets sideways it will roll a high percentage of the time. Speed along with this will determine how many rolls you do! Always try to keep your vehichle as straight as possible and avoid stomping on the brakes in these cases. Going completely off the highway may be a better choice then coming back on it if you are losing control. You can always tow your vehicle back out but rolling it is very bad.

My point is that in today’s world you really have to be aware of all of your surroundings including texting motorists and shoulders. My wife hates that I slow down when I see someone acting stupid passing me when I am doing the speed limit (or slightly above). The truth is I don’t care about them, I care about us.

Poseidon, I just want to say that my post above is for other members who may read this thread and not something trying to tell you what you should of done. I’m not into I told you so’s. I love the ability to learn from different members on this thread and like to contribute whenever I have first hand knowledge is all.

Merry Christmas to all.





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Torero

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My rubicon suspension is staying stock. I don’t believe in lifts. I like my KO2 tires, when the terrain gets too much for them the chains come on. No mud tires for me because I want to drive with the crowd on the highway, and not be a hazard to them by keeping same speed as the guy running highway tires. Been driving off-road most of my life mainly for work. The main difference for me has been that I look for a way to get there instead of getting nowhere but going thru or over that for the sake of it. This last attitude is the sport most people practice here. So the mods will be endless since there is always a bigger boulder.
To me the joy is setting a point in the map and getting there with my daily driver. For some of the stuff people use their jeeps I rather get an ATV. It’s a lot more fun and built for purpose.
 

Shaved Ice

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In my 20s, I had a CJ-5 with a lift and 33x12.50 BFG A/Ts. I also had no ABS obviously. It had just started raining and I hadn’t learned the limitations of my setup. The car in front of me hit the brakes and so did I. Her vehicle stopped and my didn’t. Fortunately, I was only doing about 10mph when I hit her. No damage to the CJ but her bumper needed a paint job. It was a cheap way to learn these things don’t handle like other vehicles.

IMHO, it is more about driving within the limitations of the vehicle (or my limitations), than it is about making sure my vehicle is close to original specs for safety reasons. You can do both (don’t mod and drive safely) but life gets pretty boring that way. YMMV.
 

ads75

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I know a lot of people do lifts and big tires for the looks. But what they don't do is anything to the brakes. Sure, the brakes may work ok in day-to-day driving, and you can adjust your driving in normal conditions, but when you need them at a critical moment, they aren't going to work nearly as well as stock. And now that you aren't slowing down as quick, you are more likely to jerk the wheel, and swerve, potentially winding up in a bad condition. I believe the Rubicon, Sahara and Moab come with the upgraded HD brakes, but not the Sport or Sport S.
 

PavementWarrior

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The higher your center of gravity the easier you can flip, the wider and lower the less likely.

When I was 16 I slid a bug upside down on freeway after being run off road, any time you whip a vehicle hard one way then the other you are testing your stability.

Take off that heavy roof rack when you dont need it, good shocks and all terrains that do well on road help a lot (In the old days I used to have 2 sets of tires, mud terrains and all terrains, now there are all kids of options that can do both better). If you lift it you need to keep your speed down on road period. The more you lift you are choosing to be less capable on freeway and better off it.

And no the roof rack did not save you, it helped to flip you.


In any event simple rules to have locked in before it happens (no time to think when it happens you have to have pre-decided):
- You have to swerve to miss a head on or a tree/pole (oak/redwoods = death), upside down is better than dead.
- a only small corrections, breaking, honk for side to side etc at speed, 2 or more big swerves on a high heavy vehicle = upside down. If you have to tank a side swipe its likely better than upside down.
- Quick... A dog jumps out in front of you going 65... ya no matter how much you love dogs all you can do is break, swerve kills you both
 
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Poseidon

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Great to see you writing about your experience and your thoughts on what led up to it.

I agree with the different tires and traction section wholeheartedly! Mud tires are not made for everyday driving unless you live where it’s dirt roads! When making a change you need to understand this from that point forward! Under wet conditions I use to slow down well below the speed limit of simply get off the road until they get better, much like when riding my bike! Best case scenario is that you have a bad weather vehicle to use for these conditions, like when using a motorcycle. It really scares me when I see so many lifted mallcrawlers today. Most of these people do not understand what they have.

Lifting any vehicle above factory height automatically places you at a higher risk for turnover. Slight lifts can be compensated by making the stance wider through offset rims of spacers. I have a JRUL that I spaced out 2” on each side because I wanted to reduce the chance of a rollover on factory tires. This is because I understand the limitations of my rig. I have owned several lifted trucks in the past and have learned what can happen. I chose to try to be safer in today’s bad driver world.
That being said I also understand the desire to lift a Jeep! It looks awesome! But let’s be truthful! It’s not needed for over half the lifted Jeeps on the road today!

The factors you really did not discuss much was your surroundings during your accident. We know about the idiot driver and the fact that you went off the road with two tires but not what else was around you. I say this because years back I caught a blowout on the front right of a lifted Toyota when I struck something in the road. When my truck took off hard to the right I had room to allow it to go off the road and come to a stop instead of having to cut back towards the road. This room allowed me not to roll the truck.

Through the years with a lot of motorcycle riding I have trained myself to be aware of all my surroundings. This was not easy and was also the one hardest thing to train my wife in when I taught her to ride a motorcycle! It seems that at anytime today I am always looking for a way out if I am run off the road or something happens. Having two tires go off the road is not the end if you can slow down before trying to get them back on the road. Being able to let yourself go all the way off and come to a stop would also not be a bad thing as long as there is not obstructions there. In order to make these split second decisions though you must first be able to know what you are up against. Much like swerving for animals in the road. This has caused more accidents then anything. Yes you do not enjoy killing an animal, but killing people with you or other motorist would be worse. Remember that if a vehicle gets sideways it will roll a high percentage of the time. Speed along with this will determine how many rolls you do! Always try to keep your vehichle as straight as possible and avoid stomping on the brakes in these cases. Going completely off the highway may be a better choice then coming back on it if you are losing control. You can always tow your vehicle back out but rolling it is very bad.

My point is that in today’s world you really have to be aware of all of your surroundings including texting motorists and shoulders. My wife hates that I slow down when I see someone acting stupid passing me when I am doing the speed limit (or slightly above). The truth is I don’t care about them, I care about us.

Poseidon, I just want to say that my post above is for other members who may read this thread and not something trying to tell you what you should of done. I’m not into I told you so’s. I love the ability to learn from different members on this thread and like to contribute whenever I have first hand knowledge is all.

Merry Christmas to all.
Meryt
Great to see you writing about your experience and your thoughts on what led up to it.

I agree with the different tires and traction section wholeheartedly! Mud tires are not made for everyday driving unless you live where it’s dirt roads! When making a change you need to understand this from that point forward! Under wet conditions I use to slow down well below the speed limit of simply get off the road until they get better, much like when riding my bike! Best case scenario is that you have a bad weather vehicle to use for these conditions, like when using a motorcycle. It really scares me when I see so many lifted mallcrawlers today. Most of these people do not understand what they have.

Lifting any vehicle above factory height automatically places you at a higher risk for turnover. Slight lifts can be compensated by making the stance wider through offset rims of spacers. I have a JRUL that I spaced out 2” on each side because I wanted to reduce the chance of a rollover on factory tires. This is because I understand the limitations of my rig. I have owned several lifted trucks in the past and have learned what can happen. I chose to try to be safer in today’s bad driver world.
That being said I also understand the desire to lift a Jeep! It looks awesome! But let’s be truthful! It’s not needed for over half the lifted Jeeps on the road today!

The factors you really did not discuss much was your surroundings during your accident. We know about the idiot driver and the fact that you went off the road with two tires but not what else was around you. I say this because years back I caught a blowout on the front right of a lifted Toyota when I struck something in the road. When my truck took off hard to the right I had room to allow it to go off the road and come to a stop instead of having to cut back towards the road. This room allowed me not to roll the truck.

Through the years with a lot of motorcycle riding I have trained myself to be aware of all my surroundings. This was not easy and was also the one hardest thing to train my wife in when I taught her to ride a motorcycle! It seems that at anytime today I am always looking for a way out if I am run off the road or something happens. Having two tires go off the road is not the end if you can slow down before trying to get them back on the road. Being able to let yourself go all the way off and come to a stop would also not be a bad thing as long as there is not obstructions there. In order to make these split second decisions though you must first be able to know what you are up against. Much like swerving for animals in the road. This has caused more accidents then anything. Yes you do not enjoy killing an animal, but killing people with you or other motorist would be worse. Remember that if a vehicle gets sideways it will roll a high percentage of the time. Speed along with this will determine how many rolls you do! Always try to keep your vehichle as straight as possible and avoid stomping on the brakes in these cases. Going completely off the highway may be a better choice then coming back on it if you are losing control. You can always tow your vehicle back out but rolling it is very bad.

My point is that in today’s world you really have to be aware of all of your surroundings including texting motorists and shoulders. My wife hates that I slow down when I see someone acting stupid passing me when I am doing the speed limit (or slightly above). The truth is I don’t care about them, I care about us.

Poseidon, I just want to say that my post above is for other members who may read this thread and not something trying to tell you what you should of done. I’m not into I told you so’s. I love the ability to learn from different members on this thread and like to contribute whenever I have first hand knowledge is all.

Merry Christmas to all.
hanks buddy I appreciate it all I’m just your average everyday driver and just didn’t handle situation correctly as I should have when I first started to slide side to side before it eneded up perpendicular to road. Sucked. If I had known and new whT to do under these conditions I coulda escaped it but I’m just not experienced under those conditions and I take advice on a serious note. Great tips !, thanks buddy again and yes most of all stay safe watch your surroundings and a big Merry Christmas.
 
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Poseidon

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In my 20s, I had a CJ-5 with a lift and 33x12.50 BFG A/Ts. I also had no ABS obviously. It had just started raining and I hadn’t learned the limitations of my setup. The car in front of me hit the brakes and so did I. Her vehicle stopped and my didn’t. Fortunately, I was only doing about 10mph when I hit her. No damage to the CJ but her bumper needed a paint job. It was a cheap way to learn these things don’t handle like other vehicles.

IMHO, it is more about driving within the limitations of the vehicle (or my limitations), than it is about making sure my vehicle is close to original specs for safety reasons. You can do both (don’t mod and drive safely) but life gets pretty boring that way. YMMV.
Thank you buddy. Good to be safe as yourself. Many great riding days for you! :). Happy holidays and thanks again for another great response
 
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Poseidon

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The higher your center of gravity the easier you can flip, the wider and lower the less likely.

When I was 16 I slid a bug upside down on freeway after being run off road, any time you whip a vehicle hard one way then the other you are testing your stability.

Take off that heavy roof rack when you dont need it, good shocks and all terrains that do well on road help alot (In the old days I used to have 2 sets of tires, mud terrains and all terrains, now their are all kids of options that can do both better). If you lift it you need to keep your speed down on road period. The more you lift you are choosing to be less capable on freeway and better off it.

And no the roof rack did not save you, it helped to flip you.


In any event simple rules to have locked in before it happens (no time to think when it happens you have to have pre-decided):
- You have to swerve to miss a head on or a tree/pole (oak/redwoods = death), upside down is better than dead.
- a only small corrections, breaking, honk for side to side etc at speed, 2 or more big swerves on a high heavy vehicle = upside down. If you have to tank a side swipe its likely better than upside down.
- Quick... A dog jumps out in front of you going 65... ya no matter how much you love dogs all you can do is break, swerve kills you both
Awesome reply my man! All so true! Thanks and happy holidays ! :)
 

Bilymac

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I don't have much to add that hasn't been said already, lots of good points. Glad you're still here to post about it OP.

Merry Christmas.
 

Capt-Zoom

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Background. I've rolled a liffted jeep TJ w/ 3 inch lift and 33x12.5 BFG AT's at 60mph. We did it towing a trailer...trailer got going in a heavy crosswind and pulled us over. Jeep got righted and I drove 16 hours to phoenix the next day to finish our move. Why'd I tip over...combination of light soft top TJ, not enough tongue weight on trailer and 50mph crosswinds at the OK/TX border. Do I blame the lift or trailer no. Wasn't much we could have done but not rent the trailer or not drive in those winds.

That TJ like any jeep lifted or not is a roll over risk on quick avoidance manuevers. Also if I take left 90 degree turns too quickly it'll lift the front drivers side wheel off the ground. This isn't a cheap lift either. It was the best that Teraflex sold at the time with Rancho 9000 adjustables. Driving with a lift takes more precision. I've also had a 1" shackle lift on a YJ end up on 2 wheels once avoiding a head on with a drunk driver. Saved it.

In the case of the JL you have to wonder if it was the edge of the road that caused your roll or simply the disturbance of the JL when she started to go back and forth. Maybe the edge of the road caused the back and forth. If this is the case that could have happened to you in any vehicle...lift or not. I've seen road edge (or at least coming back onto the road from a small shoulder) cause a lot of rollovers, everything from corvettes to pickups, to jeeps. Its very common out in rural areas where we have a 1-2 foot dirt shoulder about 1-2 inches or more below the road surface.

One other thing to consider is that as you go up your are typically adding a couple of inches of width to the stance as well. Personally In the JL I wouldn't want to go more than 3 inches. I'll probably just go 2. Going 3 or more starts both make the vehicle more prone to a role during avoidance manuevers at speed but will also begin to limit where you can park (There are a lot of garages that I can't fit my TJ into.
 

jruss

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It takes a lot of lift to make a jk or a jl unstable, unless you pick a shitty lift and equally shitty lines.
For example put a good 3.5” lift and 38’s on your jl or put a good 3.5” lift on your tj and 33’s and see which one corners more poorly and wants to flip in a stiff breeze.
As far as mud tires in the rain go you really have to look at the lack of siping on BFg km3 and that will tell you how it does on wet roads. The km2’s were no different.
I think the caution is to understand that just because you buy a bunch of stuff for your Jeep that doesn’t mean you are making it perform better in all situations. It’s give and take and learning how to drive on and off road is just another tool in the bag to get you where you want to be.
 

Turfman

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It takes a lot of lift to make a jk or a jl unstable, unless you pick a shitty lift and equally shitty lines.
For example put a good 3.5” lift and 38’s on your jl or put a good 3.5” lift on your tj and 33’s and see which one corners more poorly and wants to flip in a stiff breeze.
As far as mud tires in the rain go you really have to look at the lack of siping on BFg km3 and that will tell you how it does on wet roads. The km2’s were no different.
I think the caution is to understand that just because you buy a bunch of stuff for your Jeep that doesn’t mean you are making it perform better in all situations. It’s give and take and learning how to drive on and off road is just another tool in the bag to get you where you want to be.
While this may be true due to just the numbers in height lift one thing we tend to forget is wind dynamics and what we do to them when lifting a vehicle!

Case in point, when lifting the front of a F-150 to level it you change the wind drag enough to cause you about 2 less MPG. When you are only getting about 14MPG to start that’s a lot of drag or lift being applied to the truck. Imagine what placing an extra 5” of lift is doing when you raise a Jeep 3 1/2” and add taller tires. The skid plates on the front will tend to lift the unit even more.
 
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I don't have much to add that hasn't been said already, lots of good points. Glad you're still here to post about it OP.

Merry Christmas.
Thanks Jeeper bud! Hoho merry Christmas and Happy holidays!
 
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It takes a lot of lift to make a jk or a jl unstable, unless you pick a shitty lift and equally shitty lines.
For example put a good 3.5” lift and 38’s on your jl or put a good 3.5” lift on your tj and 33’s and see which one corners more poorly and wants to flip in a stiff breeze.
As far as mud tires in the rain go you really have to look at the lack of siping on BFg km3 and that will tell you how it does on wet roads. The km2’s were no different.
I think the caution is to understand that just because you buy a bunch of stuff for your Jeep that doesn’t mean you are making it perform better in all situations. It’s give and take and learning how to drive on and off road is just another tool in the bag to get you where you want to be.
You are very right and will be more correct in placing proper accessories that I can actually control. Thanks for the wheel info for sure. It’s already in my mind “All Terrain” great info from you others. Ty :)
 
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Background. I've rolled a liffted jeep TJ w/ 3 inch lift and 33x12.5 BFG AT's at 60mph. We did it towing a trailer...trailer got going in a heavy crosswind and pulled us over. Jeep got righted and I drove 16 hours to phoenix the next day to finish our move. Why'd I tip over...combination of light soft top TJ, not enough tongue weight on trailer and 50mph crosswinds at the OK/TX border. Do I blame the lift or trailer no. Wasn't much we could have done but not rent the trailer or not drive in those winds.

That TJ like any jeep lifted or not is a roll over risk on quick avoidance manuevers. Also if I take left 90 degree turns too quickly it'll lift the front drivers side wheel off the ground. This isn't a cheap lift either. It was the best that Teraflex sold at the time with Rancho 9000 adjustables. Driving with a lift takes more precision. I've also had a 1" shackle lift on a YJ end up on 2 wheels once avoiding a head on with a drunk driver. Saved it.

In the case of the JL you have to wonder if it was the edge of the road that caused your roll or simply the disturbance of the JL when she started to go back and forth. Maybe the edge of the road caused the back and forth. If this is the case that could have happened to you in any vehicle...lift or not. I've seen road edge (or at least coming back onto the road from a small shoulder) cause a lot of rollovers, everything from corvettes to pickups, to jeeps. Its very common out in rural areas where we have a 1-2 foot dirt shoulder about 1-2 inches or more below the road surface.

One other thing to consider is that as you go up your are typically adding a couple of inches of width to the stance as well. Personally In the JL I wouldn't want to go more than 3 inches. I'll probably just go 2. Going 3 or more starts both make the vehicle more prone to a role during avoidance manuevers at speed but will also begin to limit where you can park (There are a lot of garages that I can't fit my TJ into.
Ok you said something really cool. The edge of the road. Hmmmm... now wondering but sounds very logical. You guys all a great Help! I mean now I understand how huge law firms work. So many minds working together gets great answers. unique answer and most well... logically. Ty :)
 

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