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jlewissystem

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What’s the projected price point in this? Not sold yet. @ROAM
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jlewissystem

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Same here, seems to be specific to the recipient, not a user restriction.

Capture.PNG
Correct. They don’t accept PMs. You’ll have to tag them or email. Found that out too :)
 

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Frickinflip

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Right on!! Pm sent!!
 
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ROAM

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@ROAM Looks really good. Do you have a rough idea on when production units will be for sale? Also do you have a price point you are trying to hit?
Wow... that's the 2.0 engine in the pic!?!? I thought all the good stuff came for the V6 first
We've thought that we were getting close a few times already, but there have been a few delays along the way due to issues that have cropped up either during development or product testing, and because we've more of an engineering centric company culture wise this will probably more of a "it'll be ready when its ready" type of scenario. (But if it helps we're about to rapid prototype another batch this coming week and if they pass validation and durability testing then we're about a month out from that point on, assuming if that is the revision that we end up with.)

For example:

So we've made a few unpleasant discoveries during dyno testing on our previous experiential prototypes so we've had to increment a few more revisions. On our initial experimental prototypes, when installed on a JL with a 3.6L, there was a consistent ~3-5hp loss at lower RPMs that we couldn't explain despite having better/correct flow (via flow bench testing, less flow restriction vs stock when tested on a SuperFlow flow bench) and having larger cross sections everywhere vs stock. This was truly bizarre because when installed on a JL with a 2.0L, not only do we not lose power we actually gain hp. And although a similar hp loss can be measured on a 3.6L JL when a Mopar JL snorkel is installed, this was a phenomenon that we deemed needed to be investigated fully.


As of June 2019:

ROAM JL Stealth Snorkel June 14th, 2019 003.jpg
ROAM JL Stealth Snorkel June 22nd, 2019 004.jpg
ROAM JL Stealth Snorkel June 22nd, 2019 005.jpg
ROAM JL Stealth Snorkel June 22nd, 2019 007.jpg



The minor hp loss could have been easily attributed to dyno variances, but we decided instead that this should be verified with more vehicles and more dynos. So we went from testing with a dynojet to an axle hub dyno instead which eliminated the variable of tires. This was actually easier said than done because even the angle of the rear driveshaft played a part in the measured power output, which was solved by buiding a jig to hold the vehicle at a constant height during testing.

This still didn't explain why we're gaining power on a 2.0L - but losing power and only at low RPMs with a 3.6L, however small an amount.

After a few more rounds of CFD (computational fluid dynamics) development and factoring, we started over with a transitional or "variable" flow centric flow model instead. Apparently the venturi effect, helmholtz effect, and sizing the plenum correctly played a bigger role than previously theorized, and all influence transitional airflow, or in other words the "initial" momentum of air. So by making improvements to account for better "variable" flow and then eliminating low speed air tumble regions and air merge paths, we've eliminated a bunch of flow restrictions that are apparently only present during low airflow speeds which our superflow flow bench testing did not show because it measures at a constant setting.

To summarize the above, we're now at where we're at least not consistently losing a tiny amount of power vs stock anymore (if not a consistent few hp gain in a few places). Who could've thought that we'd lose power with a straight pipe with minimal bends?


Early July 2019:

ROAM JL Stealth Snorkel July 8th, 2019 012.jpg
ROAM JL Stealth Snorkel July 8th, 2019 013.jpg
ROAM JL Stealth Snorkel July 16th, 2019 056.jpg
ROAM JL Stealth Snorkel July 16th, 2019 066.jpg
ROAM JL Stealth Snorkel July 16th, 2019 071.jpg
ROAM JL Stealth Snorkel July 16th, 2019 073.jpg
ROAM JL Stealth Snorkel July 16th, 2019 089.jpg



The reason for the power gain on the 2.0L was also discovered as well eventually: The 2.0L heat soaks a lot more vs the 3.6L, and by relocating the intake point, we've improved the IATs (intake air temps), (special thanks to HPT for logging support). We've been able to verify this phenomenon by simply connecting a hose to the intake inlet of of 2.0L and then when relocated *anywhere* (or a few feet away) we were then able to reproduce the power gain during dyno testing.



@ROAMAlso do you have a price point you are trying to hit?
What’s the projected price point in this?@ROAM
MSRP will probably end up at somewhere around $499 and up depending on the if it'll include the integrated light mounts and what air/water separator assembly you go with. Intro pricing will be lower than that but we're still waiting on a few more things to finalize. That and please wait for the giveaway event announcement for details.



Whats the chances it will fit with a Genesis dual battery kit?
The base part of our JL stealth snorkel has a recess on the bottom to access the battery terminal so most if not all currently known dual battery kits should be compatible. Although if you are planning on running a dual battery kit the optional extended midship air/water separator assembly will no longer be compatible.



I’d almost consider this if it is truly plug and play.
Our JL Stealth Snorkel does not require drilling or cutting for installation. We'll include everything needed for installation including the cowl piece (pictured above in orange/peach).



Will the cowl pieces come painted or add to the cost after the fact?
Initial production will start with white and black and then we'll do primary colors. We'll also have a few here and there where the polyethylene hasn't been fully transitioned out of the mold from one color batch to another that will have more of a gradient/swirl effect in them. Painted versions will come after we catch up with preorders and everyone on the waiting list, but that applies to the cowl pieces only. This will probably have to be solved by a series of group buys. Not all exterior colors will be available especially earlier on.



Let's hope Roam remembers the great Mopar hood lock debacle of '18/19 and brings this to market sooner rather than later or we'll all be ordering copies on AliExpress
You can call it hubris but we're extremely confident that most of our stuff can not be knocked off by anyone. And while I understand that potentially there are those whom will try, what they'll find is that our innovation is not only core to everything we do, but there are quite a lot of features that are not reproducible without investing in either specific tooling or a really specific mold system. For example, we're quite confident that our air/water separator assembly and our CFD (computational fluid dynamics) development can't be replicated without going with either a one to one copy in which case then they'll need a pretty exotic multipiece sequenced mold, of which case in my opinion by the time they reverse engineer our mold process they might as well start from scratch, or their version just simply won't work right, given the space constraints. With our air/water separator assembly you can shove a garden hose straight into the intake and the air filter won't see a drop of water, but when submerged past the outlet the outlet itself is sealed against water ingress.

And don't worry, we've got our own version of a JL hood lock system in the works, that can not be knocked off in my opinion. In this case, as a teaser, I'd ask: why would anyone want to locate the lock part of the hood lock on the hood latch itself?



100% USA made?
Made in the USA by choice and proud of it! Being US made is how we're able to do different colors and have different options on things. Be it snorkels that use different color polyethylene to stainless steel bumpers to our bike carriers that wouldn't be possible without the help of a few bike company development partners, none of these things would be possible without doing things the way we do things.

I suppose the same thing can probably be said about being made in Canada or somewhere as close but doing small batches and then rolling incremental changes into every batch is definitely not possible with stuff made overseas. Besides language barriers, potential quality control issues, and potential IP issues, the primary disadvantages of making stuff not at home is that overseas factories are usually extremely difficult to communicate with and/or are extremely combative for design changes and updates.

If I had to summarize in one sentence of why we choose to make all of our stuff here at home its: Being US made gives us the flexibility to R&D better because we're able to pilot batch in small batches and also because we're able to better quality control the stuff we do. And while I understand that earlier on we've had our issues such as accelerated rusting and I want to apologize to everyone that has had any issues with any of our stuff, being US made is what allows us to change our manufacturing processes as soon as we detect a problem and then to immediately implement a fix, if not anything else then just so that future versions are going to be better and not have the same issues.



I am a huge fan of the functionality of the snorkel.
@ROAM Looks really good.?
Thank you! When we've completed our current JL snorkel revision development and once durability testing is done, we'll probably field some of these through our advanced testing program. That and we'll have both group buys for these and at least one giveaway event so stay tuned for updates!


Thanks everyone,

Andrew
 

Dagwood

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I've got the thread on watch. I want one in sting gray. Looking forward to updates.
 

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while my 2020 will be Punk'n, I would be ok with a black cowl piece if needed. I can always have it painted down the road. can't wait for this to come out, I have nothbut great experience with Roam so far, and will gladly give this a shot. loved my rock rails on my 2019, and have a set on order for my new 2020 and will add the boat sides when released.

will place a pre-order as soon as this kit is ready.
 

AnnDee4444

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After a few more rounds of CFD (computational fluid dynamics) development and factoring, we started over with a transitional or "variable" flow centric flow model instead. Apparently the venturi effect, helmholtz effect, and sizing the plenum correctly played a bigger role than previously theorized, and all influence transitional airflow, or in other words the "initial" momentum of air. So by making improvements to account for better "variable" flow and then eliminating low speed air tumble regions and air merge paths, we've eliminated a bunch of flow restrictions that are apparently only present during low airflow speeds which our superflow flow bench testing did not show because it measures at a constant setting.
Did you monitor the air/fuel ratio during the dyno tests? The 3.6 could also be going lean at open loop & low RPM, which could explain the drop in power.

Your research about the helmholtz effect is interesting. It makes me think that the intake was optimized for the 3.6, and modified just enough to function on the 2.0.
 

Dvol

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Worse part is the wait! Best part is that a company takes the time to answer questions and admit their short comings. Much appreciated!
 

Alphasig112

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I'm looking forward to this coming out. Will any of the body colors be available for preorder. I really want one in Punk'n.
 

ArizonaJLUR

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Awesome info in the update! My question is, are there any plans for a dust separator with this setup?
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