RESOLUTION!!!! Dealership messed up oil change worried about serious damage

[Hootbro]

Like someone else mentioned, the oil leaking and still pooling when you stopped tells you still had some oil left. While the oil pressure light did not come on, the oil pressure switch for it is set for a minimum PSI which usually would be in the single digits and not anywhere near below normal 30 PSI so there is some float between loosing oil pressure from normal value until gets below the PSI for the low pressure switch to trip the light.

I speculate the metal sound you heard was the cam phasers abruptly locking into the default position once the oil pressure got below their normal operating parameters. While not ideal, I doubt any long term abuse happened.

Of course everything is a big "what if?" speculation that nothing short of either an extensive tear down inspection or engine replacement is going to satisfy. I wish you luck for the best outcome.

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[Docjoe]

I do not usually read all of a thread, but this was interesting and very informative. I learned a lot. I hope to read that this saga has a happy ending. Please let us know the outcome.
Merry Christmas to all!!

 

[Pourboire]

Hi all,

Sorry for posting this in General JL and not 3.6 issues, I am looking for advice/guidance on this. Also sorry for being very wordy, I am trying to relay all the facts and am quite concerned about our 9,600 mile dream vehicle of my wife.

To preface this story at no point did any dash light or any notifications came up in the dash. Nothing out of the ordinary on the dash.

Today we went in for Jeep Wave Service. Things seemingly went well at the start. We left the dealership and went to Costco. After Costco we headed home. A few miles into the drive we smelled burning oil and we saw slight smoke on coming from the rear (at this point we are 5 or 6 miles total from the dealership). We slowed down (from 65 to about 35, I'm glad there was a semi putting along to follow in the right lane) and the smoke came from the front as well (I called the dealership and they said come back), and pulled off as soon as we could. When we exited the highway and found a parking lot to turn around in turned in there was a couple metallic clunks and screeches. This is when I got very concerned and we stopped and shut down.

I got under the Wrangler and there was a small puddle of oil (that was growing) and the entire undercarriage, especially the transmission, was covered in oil. There is even some drops/haze on the rear. I checked the dipstick, completely dry, and then I checked 5 more times. Still dry. I called the service department at the dealership. They wanted me to drive back and I told them I was pretty confident that there was no more oil in the engine and that wasn't happening. To their credit after a brief hold the advisor I dealt with earlier only asked two questions, where are you, and what's your cell. A tech with quite a lot of gear was dispatched in JL to see what was going on.

Tech arrives and looks at our Wrangler for a .5 seconds from 10 feet away before he says he knows what is wrong. walks to the engine and literally takes the oil filter cover off the top of the engine in about half a turn. He sighs and says some choice profanities. He flipped the oil filter over and puts it into the cap then clicks it in and wrenches it down. I asked him what caused that, and he leads with, I didn't say this, they screwed up the oil change. He asked if the dipstick was dry, I said yes. He says, that only tells you it's 3 quarts low so nothing in damaged and he was sure there was at least 2 quarts in there. He then put in 3 quarts, checking the dipstick after each one, and then a 4th. This part concerns me and is burned into my mind since he started talking a lot more and after a moment he went for quart 4. Almost like he wanted me not to notice that, it just seemed a bit weird. He checked the dipstick again. I never say it since I was on the driver's side.

He says we are almost ready to start it and I should move my stuff I needed over to our rental JL. I do not know if a 5th quart went in or not.

Before he starts our JL I ask him what are the odds it's damaged, because the clunks and screeches were very concerning. He says there is a zero percent chance of damage and modern engines can go at least hundred miles without oil and be okay. He then reaffirmed several times that he was going to drive ours back to the dealership and check it out in the morning to confirm there was no damage, but there is no chance there is.

I understand things like this can occur, but I have this creeping feeling that I'm going to get a call an hour or so after service opens tomorrow and they are going to say everything is pristine and perfect because they checked it out and redid the oil change correctly and we are good to go. I like the dealership and haven't had issues with them before, but I am concerned they may say things are great even if they aren't.

So, almighty JL Forums, please tell me I am overly concerned or what you all recommend I should do/say/see to make sure there isn't something that could come back to haunt us later?

Thank you very much for your time!

Sorry for your situation. First and foremost I wouldn't let my dealership touch my JL
at any cost. If you want results, document your case and send to FCA and make sure it's
addressed to the CEO of FCA. I sent a letter to both FCA and the dealership regarding
my problem over a year ago. I received a phone call from FCA and nothing to date from
the dealership. Best of luck, and don't trust your dealership service department, they are
not trained and basically inept.

 

[LeodaJeep]

Absolutely tell them you want to see for yourself. They can remove the spark plugs and show you the cylinder walls to see that they are not scored...scratched. If they do not have the tool to do that, step up and pay a local shop. They can even print out what they see to show to the dealers shop if they see a problem. I might do the 3rd party thing just for peace of mind. So sorry...good luck.

 

[azrubi]

Hi all,

Sorry for posting this in General JL and not 3.6 issues, I am looking for advice/guidance on this. Also sorry for being very wordy, I am trying to relay all the facts and am quite concerned about our 9,600 mile dream vehicle of my wife.

To preface this story at no point did any dash light or any notifications came up in the dash. Nothing out of the ordinary on the dash.

Today we went in for Jeep Wave Service. Things seemingly went well at the start. We left the dealership and went to Costco. After Costco we headed home. A few miles into the drive we smelled burning oil and we saw slight smoke on coming from the rear (at this point we are 5 or 6 miles total from the dealership). We slowed down (from 65 to about 35, I'm glad there was a semi putting along to follow in the right lane) and the smoke came from the front as well (I called the dealership and they said come back), and pulled off as soon as we could. When we exited the highway and found a parking lot to turn around in turned in there was a couple metallic clunks and screeches. This is when I got very concerned and we stopped and shut down.

I got under the Wrangler and there was a small puddle of oil (that was growing) and the entire undercarriage, especially the transmission, was covered in oil. There is even some drops/haze on the rear. I checked the dipstick, completely dry, and then I checked 5 more times. Still dry. I called the service department at the dealership. They wanted me to drive back and I told them I was pretty confident that there was no more oil in the engine and that wasn't happening. To their credit after a brief hold the advisor I dealt with earlier only asked two questions, where are you, and what's your cell. A tech with quite a lot of gear was dispatched in JL to see what was going on.

Tech arrives and looks at our Wrangler for a .5 seconds from 10 feet away before he says he knows what is wrong. walks to the engine and literally takes the oil filter cover off the top of the engine in about half a turn. He sighs and says some choice profanities. He flipped the oil filter over and puts it into the cap then clicks it in and wrenches it down. I asked him what caused that, and he leads with, I didn't say this, they screwed up the oil change. He asked if the dipstick was dry, I said yes. He says, that only tells you it's 3 quarts low so nothing in damaged and he was sure there was at least 2 quarts in there. He then put in 3 quarts, checking the dipstick after each one, and then a 4th. This part concerns me and is burned into my mind since he started talking a lot more and after a moment he went for quart 4. Almost like he wanted me not to notice that, it just seemed a bit weird. He checked the dipstick again. I never say it since I was on the driver's side.

He says we are almost ready to start it and I should move my stuff I needed over to our rental JL. I do not know if a 5th quart went in or not.

Before he starts our JL I ask him what are the odds it's damaged, because the clunks and screeches were very concerning. He says there is a zero percent chance of damage and modern engines can go at least hundred miles without oil and be okay. He then reaffirmed several times that he was going to drive ours back to the dealership and check it out in the morning to confirm there was no damage, but there is no chance there is.

I understand things like this can occur, but I have this creeping feeling that I'm going to get a call an hour or so after service opens tomorrow and they are going to say everything is pristine and perfect because they checked it out and redid the oil change correctly and we are good to go. I like the dealership and haven't had issues with them before, but I am concerned they may say things are great even if they aren't.

So, almighty JL Forums, please tell me I am overly concerned or what you all recommend I should do/say/see to make sure there isn't something that could come back to haunt us later?

Thank you very much for your time!

 

[azrubi]

I'm still trying to fathom how the dealer service department could be so inept. Those techs are factory trained, right?

 

[Oletimer]

I'm still trying to fathom how the dealer service department could be so inept. Those techs are factory trained, right?

Lol, yeah right ! They left my air filter out . I didn't discover it for 700 miles. Life lesson right there.

 

[blnewt]

I'm still trying to fathom how the dealer service department could be so inept. Those techs are factory trained, right?

It would be nice if there was a universal minimum standard for dealership service depts. Some are very good w/ techs that know their job and want to learn how to become better mechanics. Some are very hit or miss w/ a few that want to do the job properly and others that are just looking forward to clocking off. It's really a roll of the dice which type you'll end up with.

I'm fairly certain that many high end dealerships have pretty well trained technicians but even they aren't immune to moronic activities occurring in the service bays

 

[Jelllo]

I'm still trying to fathom how the dealer service department could be so inept. Those techs are factory trained, right?

The techs are factory trained, but the lube techs are just off the street, no experience necessary.

 

[Bomfy]

Good morning everyone,

I hope you all had a wonderful Christmas. We had a trip planned and this mess caused us to cancel one day, but when we FINALLY got a person at the Service Department on the phone and I told they they were messing our trip up they said we could take the loaner. So, we've been a bit out of the loop. Sorry for the late reply, but I needed a bit of a break.

I'll tag @JeepCares so they can see this post since it's important to what is going on. Update below.

Well, December 23rd three hours after the Service Manager said he would call me back "soon" I called the GSM. I got his voicemail and I left a pretty brief message, 30 seconds with the bullet points, and a different number than the Service Manager had. Well, guess what? Less than 5 minutes later, the Service manager calls that number. I know shocking, right?

The story at this point is, the horrible sound we heard was not in act metal on metal, but the belts covered in oil slipping and grabbing hold. The Saturday tech diagnosed this, fixed it (how he wouldn't say), washed her down and the sound is magically fixed with no possibility of damage in the engine. I asked why was I not told this on Saturday if the issues with the sound that we heard was that? He said he spoke to his lead tech and he was the one that diagnosed it, but ANOTHER tech delivered the news and redid the oil change to my service advisor and he didn't know. Weird to say the least. He had no answer as to why the Saturday advisor had no idea what was wrong which I doubt.

Here's the newest thing from the dealer. I asked about the cam bearings, cylinder bores, piston rings, and crank bearings. He said there is no way they could be damaged. I asked how he knew. He said he has been at this for longer than he would like to admit and it's instant catastrophic damage 100% of the time. So, if my engine didn't explode there is no way damage could appear later or affect the operational life. He then told me that ALL FCA products have fail-safes that shut the engine down when oil pressure/coolant gets too low. I asked him why at any point this has not been mentioned to me and why am I hearing this now? He then dodged that question and then told me that our JL had very high oil pressure at idle (about 29 PSI my recollections i sit was always 30 at idle when I checked) and that Jeep has a minimum acceptable pressure of around 11 PSI at idle. I'd love to confirm this somehow.

JeepCares is involved and I am working on moving this up now, since the story is constantly changing and the only thing that remains the same is that there is nothing wrong and there could never be anything wrong. They are still skirting the issue that the oil change was screwed up in the first place.

 

[DanW]

Maybe the remedy is an extended engine warranty. I think that would be reasonable. There is always the possibility that there actually was no damage done. I'd have an independent shop do a compression check, and as was suggested before, analyze the oil to see if anything pops up there, too. When my Ecoboost ran dry, it immediately made terrible, terrible sound, especially at start up. As I said before, it didn't go very far on a dry sump before it was a mess, and there was no guessing as to whether it was a mess. I wish I'd recorded the sound.

 

[Ctaylor1432]

Damn! The exact same oil change disaster happened to me on the 23rd. I’m expecting a call from the dealership today.

 

[tCub]

Some advice... if the dealer has your information/you’re registered with Jeep, they will email you a survey in a few weeks time - take the survey and be honest with your scores and notes.

If they get anything less than 10s, it’s really bad for business... so when I had a shitty experience at a dealership, I blasted them in the survey and a few days later had a very concern Service Director calling me asking how he could make it right (there’s also a very important survey tied to that escalated conversation too...).

This stuff makes it up to FCA. They need to know their dealerships suck.

 

[Pingbling23]

150k engine warr

Some advice... if the dealer has your information/you’re registered with Jeep, they will email you a survey in a few weeks time - take the survey and be honest with your scores and notes.

If they get anything less than 10s, it’s really bad for business... so when I had a shitty experience at a dealership, I blasted them in the survey and a few days later had a very concern Service Director calling me asking how he could make it right (there’s also a very important survey tied to that escalated conversation too...).

This stuff makes it up to FCA. They need to know their dealerships suck.

Since this is the case, it would be much easier for dealerships to do something as simple as an oil change right to begin with.

 

[oceanblue2019]

Good morning everyone,

I hope you all had a wonderful Christmas. We had a trip planned and this mess caused us to cancel one day, but when we FINALLY got a person at the Service Department on the phone and I told they they were messing our trip up they said we could take the loaner. So, we've been a bit out of the loop. Sorry for the late reply, but I needed a bit of a break.

I'll tag @JeepCares so they can see this post since it's important to what is going on. Update below.

Well, December 23rd three hours after the Service Manager said he would call me back "soon" I called the GSM. I got his voicemail and I left a pretty brief message, 30 seconds with the bullet points, and a different number than the Service Manager had. Well, guess what? Less than 5 minutes later, the Service manager calls that number. I know shocking, right?

The story at this point is, the horrible sound we heard was not in act metal on metal, but the belts covered in oil slipping and grabbing hold. The Saturday tech diagnosed this, fixed it (how he wouldn't say), washed her down and the sound is magically fixed with no possibility of damage in the engine. I asked why was I not told this on Saturday if the issues with the sound that we heard was that? He said he spoke to his lead tech and he was the one that diagnosed it, but ANOTHER tech delivered the news and redid the oil change to my service advisor and he didn't know. Weird to say the least. He had no answer as to why the Saturday advisor had no idea what was wrong which I doubt.

Here's the newest thing from the dealer. I asked about the cam bearings, cylinder bores, piston rings, and crank bearings. He said there is no way they could be damaged. I asked how he knew. He said he has been at this for longer than he would like to admit and it's instant catastrophic damage 100% of the time. So, if my engine didn't explode there is no way damage could appear later or affect the operational life. He then told me that ALL FCA products have fail-safes that shut the engine down when oil pressure/coolant gets too low. I asked him why at any point this has not been mentioned to me and why am I hearing this now? He then dodged that question and then told me that our JL had very high oil pressure at idle (about 29 PSI my recollections i sit was always 30 at idle when I checked) and that Jeep has a minimum acceptable pressure of around 11 PSI at idle. I'd love to confirm this somehow.

JeepCares is involved and I am working on moving this up now, since the story is constantly changing and the only thing that remains the same is that there is nothing wrong and there could never be anything wrong. They are still skirting the issue that the oil change was screwed up in the first place.

Main and rod bearings are catastrophic failure if run out of oil just due to the loads on them when the engine running.

The problem is to check this is costly - you need to drop the pan, pull the main bearing caps and rod ends and check. I'd likely not want the dealership doing this to be honest as too much more they can fu<k up.

So at this point I'm back to my suggestion - ask them to put a note in your FCA records of this event and that you want the engine warranty extended to cover any potential risk from this event.

From their perspective it should not be an issue as if no failure they have no cost, and they are the ones who majorly screwed this up.

Then once this is sorted, get a copy of the warranty and your FCA case on this, print it out, and find a new dealership who has trained technicians and not monkeys working for them.

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