Request for Advice - Rock, Mud and Slope

[Capt. Don]

As others have said, aired down MTs are going to way outperform those KO2s in that type of situation. But also, and this is controversial and tricky, speed. If, even with proper tires, you can't get up slowly, you need to add speed - and not wheel speed - but vehicle speed. As always, a judgement call on if it's wise in a particular situation, but sometimes a little momentum goes a long way. Obviously this increases the risk of breaking things if overdone, but backing up and adding a little speed, and a little more, and a little more until you clear the obstacle can help on muddy climbs. I tend to be really conservative with vehicle speed and go slower, but there is definitely something to be said for momentum - within reason.

However, before that, I 100% recommend MTs instead of KO2s. PR's got to be way too wet for KO2s to be reliably hooking up and you're going to struggle more than you'll enjoy, more than likely IMO. Any decent MT will outperform KO2s in that environment.

You are making me a believer in Mud-Terrains. I see much more mud than sand in the mountains here. Good point. As far as vehicle speed, here is the catch. There was a 12” near vertical rock at the crest waiting for my left front wheel. I did not think that I could bang over it with speed.

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[J0E]

You are making me a believer in Mud-Terrains. I see much more mud than sand in the mountains here. Good point. As far as vehicle speed, here is the catch. There was a 12” near vertical rock at the crest waiting for my left front wheel. I did not think that I could bang over it with speed.

MT's do fine in the sand when aired down. 13 PSI front, 10 PSI rear without beadlocks.

 

[Remorseless]

You are making me a believer in Mud-Terrains. I see much more mud than sand in the mountains here. Good point. As far as vehicle speed, here is the catch. There was a 12” near vertical rock at the crest waiting for my left front wheel. I did not think that I could bang over it with speed.

MTs and ATs have their places, and ATs generally don't do well where an MT would for sure.

But yeah, it's really hard to say how much speed would have been too much from behind a computer instead of being there. IMO, air down the tires, and think about some MTs, and try it again and let us know how it goes!

 

[cornercanyon]

Like all the previous comments:

1– airing down makes a huge difference, even when you don't 'need' it, it improves ride quality and lessens wear and wash boarding trails;

2– MT's, especially in your environment, would be an improvement;

3– I did not realize all Xtreme Recons are not the same. Our JLURXR has lockers and sway bar disconnect. Bummer the High Tide XR does not;

4– I carry a shovel and sand bags. When stacking rocks, branches and such are not an option sand bags often are. In the video not far from your obstacle you could have filled a sand bag or two that may have made the difference–

 

[Capt. Don]

Like all the previous comments:

1– airing down makes a huge difference, even when you don't 'need' it, it improves ride quality and lessens wear and wash boarding trails;

2– MT's, especially in your environment, would be an improvement;

3– I did not realize all Xtreme Recons are not the same. Our JLURXR has lockers and sway bar disconnect. Bummer the High Tide XR does not;

4– I carry a shovel and sand bags. When stacking rocks, branches and such are not an option sand bags often are. In the video not far from your obstacle you could have filled a sand bag or two that may have made the difference–

Good points, especially no. 4. Hadn’t considered sand bags. A good option.

 

[Capt. Don]

Another option, modify the obstacle. Stack rocks or branches.

Good advice on more level ground but this slope was too steep and muddy. Rock was too big to dig out (tip of boulder). Impressive how heavy rains and erosion had changed a trail I had been over numerous times before. In hindsight, I am surprised I got up to the rock in 4-Low with anti-spin rear axle and brake limited differentials with mudded up 35s . As I stopped my forward momentum, with brakes on, I slid back down the slope about 15 yards. Too steep and muddy to hold my stopped position. I am hard-headed so I did that three times but could not get around the rock or over it.

 

[Capt. Don]

Lockers and a sway bar disconnect aren't getting you up a slick muddy hill. If that HT has an LSDz that was beneficial but biggest issue is traction.

LSD rear and BLD (brake limited differentials front and rear) were impressive in getting me up the muddy slope three times with mudded up 35s. Not sure lockers would have got me farther as pausing at the rock face saw me immediately sliding backwards down the slope with brakes on about 15 yards. Lockers would have helped me climb the vertical rock face in front of the left front tire but all four wheels were working impressively, just minimal traction in the mud. And yes, sway bar disconnect would have been a help to get that left front wheel climbing the rock face. And one of my worst sins, I was not aired down. Rather ashamed to say that. I knew the trail but rain and erosion had changed it. A good lesson there for me about expecting the worst, not the best, and good reminders on this thread for me as to what that means.

 

[Capt. Don]

So did you have the wheel on the front and rear axle with the least traction spinning?



At least you don't have a FAD to provide a brake point when sending it. But sending it against a vertical face is a bad idea, even without a FAD.

According to the news, you better get MT's and a generator.

All four wheels were working well with LSD rear and BLD (brake limited differentials) front and rear. Impressive performance in 4-Low. Yes, the M210 Wide HD front axle has a FAD. Finding that on my new and admired Dana 44 M210 Wide HD (heavy duty tubes) front axle with 4" increased track over stock Sport and 4.56 gears, for me, was akin to finding a big tick on my favorite dog.

 

[Capt. Don]

MT's do fine in the sand when aired down. 13 PSI front, 10 PSI rear without beadlocks.

I worry about spinning a tire on the rim without beadlocks at less than 15 psi. What is your experience?

 

[J0E]

I worry about spinning a tire on the rim without beadlocks at less than 15 psi. What is your experience?

I air down to 13 front, 10 rear and never noticed a spin. Ignorance is bliss. I should have marked my wheel/tire to detect slippage.

The front bead is much more likely to break than the rear, hence the difference. But since I've broken a front bead for the 3rd time and burped air in the rears several time, I ordered beadlocks on BF, same price as regular wheels. I paid $329 ea on BF.

 

[Shibadog]

You are making me a believer in Mud-Terrains. I see much more mud than sand in the mountains here. Good point. As far as vehicle speed, here is the catch. There was a 12” near vertical rock at the crest waiting for my left front wheel. I did not think that I could bang over it with speed.

Consider modifying the obstacle (use rocks, etc to make a “ramp” up that ledge and you’ll go right up and over. MT wil help a bunch. Also, get yourself a winch. Or failing that at least a come-a-long, snatch strap and shovel. In PR I think the MT’s will serve you wel. Good luck, stay safe!

 

[Capt. Don]

Consider modifying the obstacle (use rocks, etc to make a “ramp” up that ledge and you’ll go right up and over. MT wil help a bunch. Also, get yourself a winch. Or failing that at least a come-a-long, snatch strap and shovel. In PR I think the MT’s will serve you wel. Good luck, stay safe!

Well, this is an electric power line road so they brought in heavy equipment and removed the top 16” of a 15-20 foot boulder that had come up out of the trail with the erosion of the soil around it. We tried it a week ago, aired down to 20 psi and in 4-Low and no rain for three days. Didn’t slip a wheel, it was a different road. It was fun trying it in the mud before and with the boulder poking out of the trail at the crest of a steep trail. Fun and difficult. Now the trail is different. Thank you for the advice.

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