Repercussions of regeneration?

rickinAZ

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I just took delivery of my 2021 JLURD on Friday. It had 21 miles on it at the dealer, and I drove it 40 miles home at speeds of 65-80 mph. When I got home I plugged in a Scangauge to check soot levels - 63% full. [for all I know the soot level was worse when I first took delivery and it burnt itself down to 63% as I was driving home]

Question: if the Jeep needs to go in regeneration mode to get the soot levels down what are the implications? Is this simply a case where it will use more fuel during the it-reached-80% mode - or - is there a more sinister repercussion down the road? If I'm not concerned about the fuel usage issue during regeneration, is all well otherwise? In other words, is life with regenerations okay?
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Rick, I'm probably just being dense, but I'm not following you?

I think life with regenerations is fine. Not a whole lot you can do about it anyhow.

My main issue with the whole thing is not being able to utilize a factory gauge or gauges to monitor the status. Being stuck in regen IMO would be the most harmful. I have ZERO clue how harmful, or if that word even applies.

The mantra that everyone seems to push out there is that diesels are only suitable for highway driving. I disagree. IMO The manufacturers have been lazy with their thinking.
 

Gorilla57

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Yeah, not following you here......regen is a NEEDED element in current diesel operations. No way around it unless someone comes out with a delete tune. If you never see the dash tell you that it is in a regen, then you are driving it correctly and that the emissions systems are working correctly.
 

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I've been watching for a while, and when mine does a regen it usually happens when soot load is between 70-80%. And, once regen begins it seems to decrease the soot load RAPIDLY. Sometimes it happens so fast that if I'm not actively watching the Scan Gauge I'll miss it.

I've also noticed that the necessary DPF temp for passive regen is 650F or higher, and for me this only happens on the interstate at 65 MPH or greater, or while towing.
 

Eeshasdon

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The issues is one of not knowing exactly when a regen is happening. Yes, you can infer when it happens by the reduction of mileage, and the smell. One would think that after all the time spent with RAM Gen 2 diesel, FCA would finally get around to adding messages to notify the operator that a regen is happening and where in the process it is.

In my 2016 Gen 2 Ram, I had a GDE tune that let me know when the regen started and what percentage completion it was at. I am waiting on GDE to come out with a tune for the Gen 3 diesel, which should happen in the spring. This will let me know when the regen starts and how long I have to keep driving until it compelts, counts down by percentage until clean. Starts at 90% and stops at 10%. Just need to make sure you are at highway speeds.
 

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My dad's new 2019 Ram 3500 has a DPF gauge in the "gauges" portion of the center screen. Sure would be nice if FCA did this for every diesel, not just the Cummins. I never knew it was there until I was showing him how to reset the oil change meter.
 
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rickinAZ

rickinAZ

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Rick, I'm probably just being dense, but I'm not following you?
Yeah, not following you here....
I few people mentioned that it was hard following what I was saying. Let me put it another (albeit extreme) way:

Hypothetical: If one was NEVER able to burn off soot by getting the exhaust hot enough, and ALL soot burn-off was ALWAYS a result of regeneration, other than using more fuel, is the DPF (or anything else) being harmed?

Now back to my situation:
I picked up the Jeep with 21 miles on it and I drove it home at sustained high speeds (up to 80mph) for 40 miles. When I got home, a Scangauge showed 63% level of soot. And...this is the soot level after just 61 miles, with 2/3 of the miles being high-speed highway miles. 80mph + 104 degrees ambient seems like the DPF should be loving life - not building up soot.
 

Compression-Ignition

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Well I'm not new to diesels, but this is my first go round with DPF's. I think for the most part these systems probably work better than we think. Having said that, just based off of reading diesel pickup forums, most guys don't really expect to go 300,000 or 500,000 miles on an original factory DPF and emission system. Some do make it that far, but I gather that they are few and far between.

What I'm getting at is this, I think these systems are pretty much a losing proposition no matter which way you look at them. I think they are always going to be building up a little more particulate than they remove (diminishing returns deal). I don't think they expect the systems to last more than 100,000 miles. They probably only care that the system lasts through the warranty period. It would be interesting to know how much money they make on an emissions system replacement out of warranty. I'd bet they are nice little cash cows.
 

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Maybe soot only burns off during regen, and never else.
 

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Maybe soot only burns off during regen, and never else.
WXman talked about it above, it's called passive regen.

I've never seen my 6.7L Ford diesel show any passive regeneration, but my wife's 3.0L Wrangler diesel definitely does it.

The other day she came home and told me her Jeep was at 77% soot load (or whatever it's called). Anyhow so I went to drive her Jeep on the highway to take care of it. Her Jeep usually starts a regen cycle at 78% like clockwork. Well I drove it around a bit and then figured I'd jump on the highway, heat it up and get the regen out of the way. Well shoot, I got on the highway, and it started the pass8ve regeneration almost immediately. It shot down to IIRC 71%. Which is fine, but it was a waste of my time.

Every one of these systems should be equipped with a force regen function. When the soot load is over say 50% or within maybe 25% of the regeneration trigger setpoint, a person could force a regen.

I fully believe that most of the issues people have with the DPF and it's related parts and pieces has more than a little to do with incompleted regens.
 

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I just took delivery of my 2021 JLURD on Friday. It had 21 miles on it at the dealer, and I drove it 40 miles home at speeds of 65-80 mph. When I got home I plugged in a Scangauge to check soot levels - 63% full. [for all I know the soot level was worse when I first took delivery and it burnt itself down to 63% as I was driving home]

Question: if the Jeep needs to go in regeneration mode to get the soot levels down what are the implications? Is this simply a case where it will use more fuel during the it-reached-80% mode - or - is there a more sinister repercussion down the road? If I'm not concerned about the fuel usage issue during regeneration, is all well otherwise? In other words, is life with regenerations okay?
I could be off on this but have relative experience to back it up, although not with a diesel vehicle. The speed at which you drove is not really all that relevant but more the “load” on the engine. In diesel generator terms, when one is lightly loaded soot builds up quicker because of both the lower temperature of the exhaust as well as the pressure to push it through the system including the DPF. The greater the “load” on your vehicle, the less likely you are to “wet-stack” it. Idling, constant lower rpm running for longer periods of time and such are going to cause the engine to build up spot much quicker. Like others have posted, the regen is necessary to sort of reset the system so that it doesn’t lead to clogged egr coolers. And yes, DPFs will eventually wear out and will either need to be replaced or you can have them “cleaned” to get a bit more life out of them. Hope this helps and I’m not sending people down another spiral.
 
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rickinAZ

rickinAZ

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The speed at which you drove is not really all that relevant but more the “load” on the engine.
I totally get exactly what you're saying, but a question: I was going 80mph for 40 miles while it's 104 degrees out - that seems like the highest load that can be reasonably put on the vehicle, short of pulling a trailer uphill. And...it seems like most people won't be doing that (trailer uphill) on a weekly basis.

That said, it seems like all of the feedback is, regeneration is not a bad thing, and don't expect the DPF to last more than 100K miles. I can live with that.
 

Lab1

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I totally get exactly what you're saying, but a question: I was going 80mph for 40 miles while it's 104 degrees out - that seems like the highest load that can be reasonably put on the vehicle, short of pulling a trailer uphill. And...it seems like most people won't be doing that (trailer uphill) on a weekly basis.

That said, it seems like all of the feedback is, regeneration is not a bad thing, and don't expect the DPF to last more than 100K miles. I can live with that.
Agreed that is a higher than average load the vehicle will normally see and I didn’t really answer that part of your concern in my original reply. I would be speculating but you are probably correct that it was high when you took receipt of it at the dealership. The 22 miles it had on it were probably all just puttering around with little or no load on the motor. I don’t know what the normal operating temperature of the system is but it’s probably not nearly as high as the temperature gets while in regen. Therefore, I doubt you decreased it from day 70% down to 63%- rather it just didn’t climb as quickly as it would have otherwise with a lighter load on the engine.
 

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A lot of idling will cause the soot to build. I'm guessing between moving around the transportation yards and the dealership, it spent some time idling. Based on my experience with the 2018 WK2 gen 2 ecodiesel, I'd get much faster soot build-up in the winter because of the idling. I never experienced any downside to the regen, though sometimes I'd get the "Regen in progress, drive at highway speeds" notification as I was turning onto my street. Half the time I'd go do a 10-15 min highway loop, other times I'd just park it as normal and the regen would start when I got back up to highway speeds next time.

If you keep shutting it down in the regen, it will trip the sensor and put the Jeep into limp mode. The only way back from that, I hear, is a trip to the dealer and a lightening of the wallet.
 

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My regen kicks on at 80% soot level like clockwork. Runs until 10% then shutdown and settles out at 8%.

If it's in regen I avoid shutting down the motor. Regen runs fine at highway or around town. Last regen I was running errands and went thru a drive thru ATM and McDonald's. Rig didn't seem to mind at all.

I don't mind the DPF or regen. I would like the option to start a regen if soot was over say 60% so I could do it when convenient.

I'd like to avoid EGR if an option comes out to delete it.
 
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