Renogy DC to DC charger with MPPT

[finding away]

Is anybody using one of these? It says it is compatible with smart alternators, and I assume our JLs have smart alternators, but can't seem to find anyone with real-world experience.

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[Gee-pah]

I am using a Renogy DCC30S DC-DC MPPT charger in my 3.6L Sahara. Hit my up either here or in private message Nadine @finding away with your questions. I'm glad to share with you where I "skinned my knees," so hopefully you won't.

Yes, the device is compatible with the smart alternator of a JL. Do, as per the Renogy owner's manual, connect the device to a vehicle source of current that delivers power only when the vehicle is cranked.

My place of choice was the accessory plug in the console, where I ran a wire to the rear of the vehicle where I have my DCC30S.

Do not use the accessory plug, if equipped, in the cargo area. By factory default, and unlike the plug in the console, that plug in the cargo area is always energized, and thereby an improper place to tap to signal that the vehicle is on or off based upon the plug having power: which it always will provided that your batteries under the hood have power.

To make a LSS, I run this device with a solar panel on my roof rack to energize a Lithium Iron Phosphate battery LiFePO4, also in the cargo area, to power a dash camera in parking mode.

Running the camera against the vehicle batteries, given the durations with which I park, would drain the vehicle batteries if not for the voltage cutoff I have set with the dash camera--which would turn the camera off.

There are cold weather implications for this setup that go beyond your initial scope. I run a battery that warms itself up before accepting a charge, and I will be experimenting with a Silicone Dioxide battery this winter when I travel to cold climates: the latter battery much more conducive to cold weather use.

 

[Donkey Fluffer]

I have one in my Gladiator. Works just fine. Included instructions suck but Renogy offers better one online. Mine charges a 100ah Lifepo4 through the alternator and 200 watts of solar on my roof rack. My refrigerator has been running nonstop since last August. Solar does 90% of the charging, i usually find the battery at 100% by noon. If it's been raining or i park in shade, the alternator keeps it topped off in my 45 minute commute.

 

[finding away]

I am using a Renogy DCC30S DC-DC MPPT charger in my 3.6L Sahara. Hit my up either here or in private message Nadine @finding away with your questions. I'm glad to share with you where I "skinned my knees," so hopefully you won't.

Yes, the device is compatible with the smart alternator of a JL. Do, as per the Renogy owner's manual, connect the device to a vehicle source of current that delivers power only when the vehicle is cranked.

My place of choice was the accessory plug in the console, where I ran a wire to the rear of the vehicle where I have my DCC30S.

Do not use the accessory plug, if equipped, in the cargo area. By factory default, and unlike the plug in the console, that plug in the cargo area is always energized, and thereby an improper place to tap to signal that the vehicle is on or off based upon the plug having power: which it always will provided that your batteries under the hood have power.

Thank you, Andy @Gee-pah, very helpful. I don't understand why the unit is plugged in, seeing as it is presumably hardwired to two isolated batteries... What am I missing? I have the Sahara 3.6L like yours. Planning on 200 W of solar on the roof, and a LiFePo4 under my platform.

 

[finding away]

I have one in my Gladiator. Works just fine. Included instructions suck but Renogy offers better one online. Mine charges a 100ah Lifepo4 through the alternator and 200 watts of solar on my roof rack. My refrigerator has been running nonstop since last August. Solar does 90% of the charging, i usually find the battery at 100% by noon. If it's been raining or i park in shade, the alternator keeps it topped off in my 45 minute commute.

Beautiful, clean setup! Are using the 30 amp or the 50 amp version of the DC-DC charger?

 

[JimLee]

Thank you, Andy @Gee-pah, very helpful. I don't understand why the unit is plugged in, seeing as it is presumably hardwired to two isolated batteries... What am I missing? I have the Sahara 3.6L like yours. Planning on 200 W of solar on the roof, and a LiFePo4 under my platform.

FWIW, if you do want to use the rear power it's as simple as moving a fuse to change it to ignition on only power, details in the owners manual.

 

[finding away]

I managed to get Renogy on the phone and they said the JL does not have a smart alternator but that I should just not attach to the ignition and I'll be fine. I notice there seems to be what looks like a hokey temperature sensor that should be mounted "near" the battery. Because I live in scorching AZ, I worry about the battery getting too hot. (When I park in the sun to recharge my Jackery, the interior heats up to the point the Jackery shuts down.) I'm concerned about where to place the charger and the LiFePo4 so that it stays cool enough and doesn't take up too much cargo space. Any suggestions?

 

[Donkey Fluffer]

Beautiful, clean setup! Are using the 30 amp or the 50 amp version of the DC-DC charger?

50 Sir

 

[Donkey Fluffer]

I managed to get Renogy on the phone and they said the JL does not have a smart alternator but that I should just not attach to the ignition and I'll be fine. I notice there seems to be what looks like a hokey temperature sensor that should be mounted "near" the battery. Because I live in scorching AZ, I worry about the battery getting too hot. (When I park in the sun to recharge my Jackery, the interior heats up to the point the Jackery shuts down.) I'm concerned about where to place the charger and the LiFePo4 so that it stays cool enough and doesn't take up too much cargo space. Any suggestions?

I taped my temp sensor directly to the side of Lifepo4 battery.

Can't help you on where to mount it in a JL. Mine is in my JT Rubicon. My wife has a JLU Sahara but she hasn't been interested in a dual battery setup. To complete our collection I have a 2 door Willys on order, and in D1 right now.

 

[Gee-pah]

Thank you, Andy @Gee-pah, very helpful. I don't understand why the unit is plugged in, seeing as it is presumably hardwired to two isolated batteries... What am I missing? I have the Sahara 3.6L like yours. Planning on 200 W of solar on the roof, and a LiFePo4 under my platform.

Hi Nadine @finding away:

First off, when you say "I don't understand why the unit is plugged in, seeing as it is presumably hardwired to two isolated batteries... "

this is what I think you are asking.

"Why is it necessary for either the DCC30S or 50S to know that the JL is cranked (i.e. that dang ignition wire?) You've already got two wires leading from the starter battery under the hood (which is connected in parallel to the ESS battery 99.9% of the time) to the DCCS30 or 50S?"

If this is not your question, please clarify, as I will answer the above, here goes.

The DCC30S and 50S is capable of sourcing your batteries under the hood (hereafter in solar vehicle speak your "starter batteries") for electrial current, or supplying electrical current to them under a very specific algorithm on page 17 of the manual https://www.renogy.com/content/RBC3050D1S-G1/RBC3050D1S-Manual.pdf

Included in this logic is to not source the starter batteries for current unless (in addition to other factors) the alternator is backfilling these batteries with power--which happens only when the engine is cranked.

Similarly the very same pair of wires from the starter battery to the DCC30S/50S are used, when the engine is off, to determine the composite voltage of the two batteries, and if low enough, and the battery in your cargo area (i.e. your house battery) has adequate charge, electrical current from an energy source like a solar panel (if it's light out) can be used to trickle charge your starter batteries.

So--we need a thick cable pair from the starter batteries to tap them, charge them, and know their voltage, and a separate way (i.e. a small wire letting us know if the engine is on (a.k.a. it is safe to tap the starter batteries to charge, if needed, the house battery.) That single wire needs no ground wire, already using the one of the aforementioned thick cable pair

By the way--you mentioned "planning" as it regards your solar panel and battery. Please understand that one of the limiting factors (although maybe not for an Arizona resident such as yourself) of using a LiFePO4 battery is the need, as a general rule for temperatures above freezing.

I say as a general rule because there are LiFePO4 batteries that will use electrical current meant to charge them, to first heat them up slightly, if necessary. The are expensive, but so is ruining a LiFePO4 battery trying to charge it when it's too cold out--which BTW is usually hard to do because most LifEPO4 batteries have circuitry(a BMS or battery monitoring system) that prevents such below freezing attempts at charging.

Another point, a wealth of information on this stuff can be found at the DIY Solar Power Forum https://diysolarforum.com/ . The forum has a special niche regarding solar in vehicles and people there know far more about the MPPT controller you asked about that most people at Renogy.

@JimLee is correct. Moving one fuse in the Power Distribution Center can get the outlet in the cargo area to only be energized when the vehicle is on (we call that an accessory plug ) rather than energized all the time (i.e. a battery plug). It is not though the fuse incorrectly written into the 2018 JLs owner's manual, which has a typo.

I managed to get Renogy on the phone and they said the JL does not have a smart alternator but that I should just not attach to the ignition and I'll be fine. I notice there seems to be what looks like a hokey temperature sensor that should be mounted "near" the battery. Because I live in scorching AZ, I worry about the battery getting too hot. (When I park in the sun to recharge my Jackery, the interior heats up to the point the Jackery shuts down.) I'm concerned about where to place the charger and the LiFePo4 so that it stays cool enough and doesn't take up too much cargo space. Any suggestions?

Nadine, if you think what I'm about to say is rude, then go to the DIY Solar Forum where people talk about Renogy and the DCC30S/50S. Simply put, Renogy customer service only quotes their manual, they often don't know what they are talking about with their own products, it's a miracle you got them on the phone, and they know even less about the JL Wrangler.

This said, the JL most definitely has a smart alternator--which--found in newer vehicles, adjusts the power it puts out based on battery need rather than offering one constant power rate. The theory is this taxes the engine (read saves gasoline) less when the battery needs less charge, perhaps even helping (starter) battery life. You can watch the voltage vary on the alternator from the correct screen on your steering dash display. You should definitely have a wire to the DCC30S/50S telling it that your engine is on so that the product can use a lower more sensitive voltage threshold (12.0V for 15 seconds as per page 17 of the manual) to determine that the engine is on.

Without this wire your starter battery is going to have to put out 13.2V for 15 seconds to tell the DCC30S/50S that the engine is on (again page 17) and as a result, you may not charge your house battery from your starter battery when the engine is on as much as possible. This can be a problem when, say, you need to charge your house battery while traveling in the dark.

You CAN forget about the temperature sensor--that's more for cold climates.

As far as your Jackery shutting down is concerned, I am not sure what type of Lithium battery it runs.

As a general rule, LiFePO4 (Lithium Phosphate) batteries don't like it hotter than about 112F. If I were you I would consider purchasing a Silicon Dixoxide battery instead. Their higher end is 149F.

(I have no affiliation with Azimuth Solar https://azimuthsolar.ca/silicon-dioxide-excellent-battery-performance-in-extreme-cold-conditions/)



Silicon Dixoide batteries, like LIFePO4s are uber safe, including in the cabin of a vehcile, run in extremes of temperature and have as their only downside that on a equal power basis, they are slightly heavier than batteries which use other chemistries.

I don't recommend Lead Acid batteries inside your cargo area. Azimuth Solar can also tell you which of the battery types to set your house battery to to on the DCC30S/50S.

On page 22 of the DCC30s/50S manual the product shows a high end operating temperature range of 149F, so I wouldn't worry to much.

I'd store the battery and the DCC30s/50S out of direct sunlight. I have mine attached to a cargo area compartment I built.

Page 10 of the manual suggests the DCC30s/50S can be stored in different orientations. Additionally, LiFEPO4 and Silicon Dioxide batteries, both void of liquids, can generally be stored in any orientation.

Finally, Nadine, how are you getting to 200W of solar--i.e. 2, 100W panels, etc.

If so, we need to consider whether you will connect the panels in parallel or series.

And perhaps even more important, all this hardware first starts being considered when answering the question, what do I need to charge, how much sunlight will I have, and at what temperatures can I operate. Solar panels work less efficiently in the hot, just as sure as that same hot temperature is a product of a sun angle most effective at generating current, temperature notwithstanding.

Each 100W panel will take up approximately a 3rd of a JLU (4 doors) roof real estate.

Please hit me up with questions. I want you acquiring correct product and operating it safely.

 

[Mx5red]

Hi Nadine @finding away:

First off, which you say "I don't understand why the unit is plugged in, seeing as it is presumably hardwired to two isolated batteries... "

this is what I think you are asking.

"Why is it necessary for either the DCC30S or 50S to know that the JL is cranked? You've already got a two wires leading from the starter battery under the hood (which is connected in parallel to the ESS battery 99.9% of the time) to the DCCS30 or 50S?"

If this is not your question, please clarify, as I will answer the above, here goes.

The DCC30S and 50S is capable of sourcing your batteries under the hood (hereafter in solar vehicle speak your starter batteries) for current, or supplying current to them under a very specific algorithm on page 17 of the manual https://www.renogy.com/content/RBC3050D1S-G1/RBC3050D1S-Manual.pdf

Included in this logic is to not source the starter batteries for current unless (in addition to other factors) the alternator is backfilling these batteries with power--which happens only when the engine is cranked.

Similarly the very same pair of wires from the starter battery to the DCC30S/50S are used, when the engine is off, to determine the composite voltage of the two batteries, and if low enough, and the battery in your cargo area (i.e. your house battery) has adequate charge, current from an energy source like a solar panel can be used to trickle charge your starter batteries.

So--we need a cable from the starter batteries to tap them, charge them, and know their voltage, and a separate way of knowing if the engine is on (a.k.a. it is safe to tap the starter batteries to charge, if needed, the house battery.)

By the way--you mentioned "planning" as it regards your solar panel and battery. Please understand that one of the limiting factors (although maybe not for an Arizona resident such as yourself) of using a LiFePO4 battery is the need, as a general rule for temperatures above freezing.

I say as a general rule because there are LiFePO4 batteries that will use current meant to charge them, to first heat them up slightly, if necessary. The are expensive, but so is ruining a LiFePO4 battery trying to charge it when it's too cold out--which BTW is usually hard to do because most LifEPO4 batteries have circuitry that prevents such below freezing attempts at charging.

Another point, a wealth of information on this stuff can be found at the DIY Solar Power Forum https://diysolarforum.com/ . The forum has a special niche in solar in vehicles and people there know far more about the MPPT controller you asked about that most people at Renogy.

@JimLee is correct. Moving one fuse in the Power Distribution Center can get the outlet in the cargo area to only be energized when the vehicle is on (we call that accessory plug ) rather than energized all the time (i.e. a battery plug). It is not though the fuse incorrectly written into the 2018 owner's manual, which has a typo.



Nadine, if you think what I'm about to say is rude, then go to the DIY Solar Forum where people talk about Renogy and the DCC30S/50S. Simply put, Renogy customer service only quotes their manual, they often don't know what they are talking about with their own products, it's a miracle you got them on the phone, and they know even less about the JL Wrangler.

This said, the JL most definitely has a smart alternator--which--found in newer vehicles, adjusts the power it puts out based on battery need rather than offering one constant power rate. The theory is this taxes the engine (read saves gasoline) less when the battery needs less charge, perhaps even helping (starter) battery life. You can watch the voltage vary on the alternator from the correct screen on your steering dash display. You should definitely have a wire to the DCC30S/50S telling it that your engine is on so that the product can use a lower more sensitive voltage threshold 12.0V for 15 seconds as per page 17 of the manual) to determine that the engine is on.

Without this wire your starter battery is going to have to put out 13.2V for 15 seconds to tell the DCC30S/50S that the engine is on (again page 17) and as a result, you may not charge your house battery from your starter battery when the engine is on as must as possible. This can be a problem when, say, you need to charge your house battery while traveling in the dark.

You CAN forget about the temperature sensor--that's more for cold climates.

As a general rule, LiFePO4 batteries don't like it hotter than about 112F. If I were you I would consider purchasing a Silicon Dixoxide battery instead. Their higher end is 149F.

(I have no affiliation with Azimuth Solar https://azimuthsolar.ca/silicon-dioxide-excellent-battery-performance-in-extreme-cold-conditions/)



They are uber safe, run an extremes of temperature and have as their only downside that on a power basis, they are slightly heavier.

I don't recommend Lead Acid batteries inside your cargo area. Azimuth Solar can also tell you which of the battery types to set your house battery to to on the DCC30S/50S.

On page 22 of the DCC30s/50S manual the product shows a high end operating temperature range of 149F, so I wouldn't worry to much.

I'd store the battery and the DCC30s/50S out of direct sunlight. I have mine attached to a cargo area compartment I built.

Page 10 of the manual suggests the DCC30s/50S can be stored in different orientations. Additionally, LiFEPO4 and Silicon Dioxide batteries, both void of liquids, can generally be stored in any orientation.

Finally, Nadine, how are you getting to 200W of solar--i.e. 2, 100W panels, etc.

If so, we need to consider whether you will connect the panels in parallel or series.

Awesome post, thanks for the info

 

[Gee-pah]

Nadine @finding away.

I'm revisiting this post having "slept on it" and investigated the Jackery product line you reference.

I've got some bad news.

If your setup is geared around this product, living in Arizona I am afraid that you are going to run into problems. The Lithium Ion battery chemistry upon which the product line is based can't handle your extremes of temperature well.

Please don't confuse Lithium Ion chemistry with Lithium Iron Phosphate (LifePO4) chemistry: another battery type, sadly, equally susceptible to letting you down in your extremes of heat (or cold.)

I can certainly appreciate how you might enjoy the portability of this product, but your solution is more likely to come in the purchase of a power inverter that is rated for your temperatures, which converts the DC power of a Silicon Dioxide battery into AC, and the use of extension cords if possible to bring power to your camping appliances.

 

[finding away]

Wow! Lots of great info. Thank you so much for taking the time and energy to respond to my questions.

Yes, I know the Jackery hates the heat and am prepared for its early demise.

I have finally collected most of my parts and am beginning the install. I will be connecting 2 100w panels in parallel. I already bought the 100W LiFeP04 battery (so I'm too late to consider the silicon dioxide at this point) and the 30a dc to dc charger and a 1000 w inverter. I'm in the process of positioning everything in the cleanest, coolest (airflow) position I can. I have deleted the seats and have a platform raised about 8 inches above the rear floor. I will be installing all components under the platform, inline with where the back of the backseats were. Then, I'll start wiring.

I have several dc loads connected to an S-tech switch pod that I'd like to convert over to the new
house battery setup. I'm wondering if it's best to move the unit closer to the house battery to reduce the length of the run. This would mean re-wiring all my accessories, but I'd rather do it right while I'm sweating. Do you have knowledge about that?

Thanks again for all the help. I'm really enjoying learning about this and hope I don't break too many things along the way.

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