Redo of Steering TSB 08-074-20

OP
OP
Dusty

Dusty

Well-Known Member
First Name
Russell
Joined
Jul 11, 2020
Messages
183
Reaction score
203
Location
Carson City, NV
Vehicle(s)
2021 JLR
We have a culture where modifying Jeeps is cool. And it's really cool to modify a Jeep to make it stronger and more capable.
What's not cool is paying to modify a Jeep to correct a problem that's in the design or making of a Jeep.
When I worked at 3M Canada I was encouraged to ask questions as an engineer. First: "Did it ever work?" If it did, then "What's changed?"

My Jeep is a lot better since the steering gear was changed.
I feel badly for those people that have had the change done and it's as bad or worse.

It was FCA Jeep Canada Customer Care that suggested I change dealers for service. I'm glad they did.
Now there's a new TSB I have to decide whether to get the work done on that TSB. I've got some thinking to do...
If the TSB is for swapping out the track bar, go for it. The results are reduced side wind sway, and better mid-corner stability. It's a worthwhile update.
Advertisement

 
OP
OP
Dusty

Dusty

Well-Known Member
First Name
Russell
Joined
Jul 11, 2020
Messages
183
Reaction score
203
Location
Carson City, NV
Vehicle(s)
2021 JLR
Anyone know if i NEED the Synergy Adjustable HD trackbar along with the BRACE to make it a better steering ride if I do NOT have any lift (stock) or if i dont even plan on it in the near future? would the Synergy Brace be enough for my JLUS? from what i gathered adding the trackbar is for reinforcing when you have a lift, but will it do any difference if i dont? waste of money? Got quoted 600+ for both just labor if i bring in the parts, which seems kind of ridiculous for a job like that.

Trackbar takes like 15 minutes to install, brace could take 1 hour tops if you are a shop/pro so i dont wanna spend extra money for parts/ labor if there are things unneccessary.
It seems the 'cure' might be in getting the Option Report to show a "70F" software update was done. This teaches the steering system something, but I don't know what.

Also, for JLs built prior to Jan 22, 2019, the track bar update is an authorized TSB (ends with 021). Get this done as it actually does make a bit of a difference, especially in cross winds.

My dealership has done the iron steering box, an alignment, changed the track bar and tightened everything up. They said they did the software update, but I don't believe them. They claim there is nothing left for them to do.

I'm trying to get @JeepCares to help get the steering to work right. They opened a case for me, but the dealership said they test drove it and it was fine. That was the opinion of a lot boy, not a technician. JeepCares closed my case so I'm asking them to reopen it until I am satisfied, not the lot boy.

My JLUS still has 2" of center free play and a suspicious clicking noise near/on the steering shaft.
 

Boogey

Well-Known Member
First Name
Rami
Joined
Oct 26, 2020
Messages
109
Reaction score
62
Location
Virginia
Vehicle(s)
JLU Sport S 2021
It seems the 'cure' might be in getting the Option Report to show a "70F" software update was done. This teaches the steering system something, but I don't know what.

Also, for JLs built prior to Jan 22, 2019, the track bar update is an authorized TSB (ends with 021). Get this done as it actually does make a bit of a difference, especially in cross winds.

My dealership has done the iron steering box, an alignment, changed the track bar and tightened everything up. They said they did the software update, but I don't believe them. They claim there is nothing left for them to do.

I'm trying to get @JeepCares to help get the steering to work right. They opened a case for me, but the dealership said they test drove it and it was fine. That was the opinion of a lot boy, not a technician. JeepCares closed my case so I'm asking them to reopen it until I am satisfied, not the lot boy.

My JLUS still has 2" of center free play and a suspicious clicking noise near/on the steering shaft.
I have the 2021, 70F should be standard i guess? Also it should have the right trackbar and new steering box out of the factory.
I did the Steering reset thing earlier on and maybe its a placebo i am not sure...
I really don't know where the difference lies in two identical jeeps both having the same work on them yet one always stays "the same"...or is never 100% fixed.
That steering gap is the most annoying during long windy roads where the input kicks in after a certain "curve"...you learn and adapt to it but still, it should not be there.

The Synergy HD trackbar is adjustable, so i do not know if i might NEED to add that part if i have no aftermarket lift. Better than the OEM , for sure, will it make a difference in steering or ride quality (nice add on to have)? I wont know unless someone has the exact same thing or i have to just buy it and know myslef.

That clicking sound on your steering, is it constant? or only when steering?
 
OP
OP
Dusty

Dusty

Well-Known Member
First Name
Russell
Joined
Jul 11, 2020
Messages
183
Reaction score
203
Location
Carson City, NV
Vehicle(s)
2021 JLR
I think the thick track bars are suited for raised Jeeps that are run hard. Probably with fat tires.
The Synergy track bar brace is an interesting item. It improves the track bar mounting strength while also securing the steering gear’s lower bearing housing. Does it make the marshmallow OE steering feel like a Porsche? Doubt it. I experience the same imprecision in the corners as you do. I’m a snob about vehicular handling and find my 2018 JLUS to be just a bit better than a Radio Flyer red wagon. I’ve owned many live front axle 4x4s and this is, by far, the worst steering I’ve encountered. I’m wildly disappointed in Jeep for letting this fall through the cracks. Their engineers know better, but I’m guessing the accounting department got in the way of the JL’s chassis design.
I’m empathetic for all of us who have this problem.
 

Boogey

Well-Known Member
First Name
Rami
Joined
Oct 26, 2020
Messages
109
Reaction score
62
Location
Virginia
Vehicle(s)
JLU Sport S 2021
I think the thick track bars are suited for raised Jeeps that are run hard. Probably with fat tires.
The Synergy track bar brace is an interesting item. It improves the track bar mounting strength while also securing the steering gear’s lower bearing housing. Does it make the marshmallow OE steering feel like a Porsche? Doubt it. I experience the same imprecision in the corners as you do. I’m a snob about vehicular handling and find my 2018 JLUS to be just a bit better than a Radio Flyer red wagon. I’ve owned many live front axle 4x4s and this is, by far, the worst steering I’ve encountered. I’m wildly disappointed in Jeep for letting this fall through the cracks. Their engineers know better, but I’m guessing the accounting department got in the way of the JL’s chassis design.
I’m empathetic for all of us who have this problem.
Here is a Video i shot yesterday.


Today i took the Jeep to the dealer, gave it at 11AM, picked it up at 5pm

No more non return to center from the left like before, return to center has been equalized but Not 100% proper accurate , i understand the axles thing, but it is much much better.

What is interesting is that the dealer said "All within specs, could not replicate problem,but steering was off to the right, not centered."
So they Recentered it but did not address the 1-2 inch play/gap which i will have to adapt to as i am until i put the synergy brace on.

As for the Audio issues as well,(Apple Carplay wired stutter/static randomness) could not replicate even though i drove in with the problem, once the advisor got in , NO MORE problem...i leave the dealership and it returns..WTF...They now think i'm screwing with them .Lots of static pops and crackles and stutters....

This JL is riddled with little bugs and issues but i guess we just love it!
 
OP
OP
Dusty

Dusty

Well-Known Member
First Name
Russell
Joined
Jul 11, 2020
Messages
183
Reaction score
203
Location
Carson City, NV
Vehicle(s)
2021 JLR
Here is a Video i shot yesterday.


Today i took the Jeep to the dealer, gave it at 11AM, picked it up at 5pm

No more non return to center from the left like before, return to center has been equalized but Not 100% proper accurate , i understand the axles thing, but it is much much better.

What is interesting is that the dealer said "All within specs, could not replicate problem,but steering was off to the right, not centered."
So they Recentered it but did not address the 1-2 inch play/gap which i will have to adapt to as i am until i put the synergy brace on.

As for the Audio issues as well,(Apple Carplay wired stutter/static randomness) could not replicate even though i drove in with the problem, once the advisor got in , NO MORE problem...i leave the dealership and it returns..WTF...They now think i'm screwing with them .Lots of static pops and crackles and stutters....

This JL is riddled with little bugs and issues but i guess we just love it!
@JeepCares

The problem with the steering is nothing to pass off, Rami. It's a safety issue Jeep knows about, but is not able to actually fix. It's a critical design flaw. Why does my JL have it? Why does yours and so many others have it? What isolates these from the majority of owners who are just accepting the flaw as "a Jeep thing", or aren't as exacting as the ones who recognize the continuing flaw.

How does this get corrected? Do we have to see a lawyer?
 

Boogey

Well-Known Member
First Name
Rami
Joined
Oct 26, 2020
Messages
109
Reaction score
62
Location
Virginia
Vehicle(s)
JLU Sport S 2021
@JeepCares

The problem with the steering is nothing to pass off, Rami. It's a safety issue Jeep knows about, but is not able to actually fix. It's a critical design flaw. Why does my JL have it? Why does yours and so many others have it? What isolates these from the majority of owners who are just accepting the flaw as "a Jeep thing", or aren't as exacting as the ones who recognize the continuing flaw.

How does this get corrected? Do we have to see a lawyer?
I totally agree with everything you say.
Fixing the steering requires a redesign, not a patch which may correct the problem that might need a patch itslef.They can fix it so it doesnt come to the surface or be noticeable for some but It is like a snowball effect. Personally i do not accept it as a JEEP THING and anyone else who says this probably should not have a voice or say in the matter.

A steering gap/play/wander is most dangerous when precise millimeter corrections are needed around a tight corner or winding road and you have that inch or two of emptiness and then SUDDENLY the Hydro Electric programmed Curve kicks in .....it takes time to adapt to such a thing under normal conditions but could be deadly when out of control.

Every piece of anything that is manufactured in this world has a purpose.
A cars purpose is to drive on a road using wheels for traction and steering for direction, key factors. If direction isn't there then the whole equation fails. Can't steer properly? No problem, let's wing it?
 
OP
OP
Dusty

Dusty

Well-Known Member
First Name
Russell
Joined
Jul 11, 2020
Messages
183
Reaction score
203
Location
Carson City, NV
Vehicle(s)
2021 JLR
Class action could be a big payday for a lawyer...
I agree fully. The issue is to get the attention of Jeep and for them to commit to solving the problem.
 

Boogey

Well-Known Member
First Name
Rami
Joined
Oct 26, 2020
Messages
109
Reaction score
62
Location
Virginia
Vehicle(s)
JLU Sport S 2021
I agree fully. The issue is to get the attention of Jeep and for them to commit to solving the problem.
The real issue is no one can 100% identify the problem to find a conclusive fix...otherwise someone would have found a solution.

There are lots of 3rd party mods for steering , stabilizers and etc etc etc and they all help, but none actually FIX this issue 100% from what i have read here and it's a shame some have to pay extra money to get their jeep back to 80 or 90% the steering it should be from the factory.

People who have it bad at say 50% of the normal steering, when applying a fix and getting only to a 70% level ofwhat the steering should be praise the fix and cheer on but in reality it is STILL BROKEN and INCOMPLETE.Not a single person who had the fix that i know of here ever had the GAP/PLAY go away 100%.Some are affected and know it, some are affected and they DO NOT know it and think it is normal behavior, but when and if they try other Jeeps and get in one that has much better steering then a new world opens up.

You can't go out and test drive every jeep on the lot.

After getting it back from service at the dealer now i think for me i am one of the lucky ones who have good steering, but i do NOT like the tyres that i have.the Dueler AT 245-75/17 .
The tyre pressure is set to 34-35 and i am afraid to go to 38 (as recommended) which i know will make it go all over the place like before and hence start another endless cycle.
 

2mnycars

Well-Known Member
First Name
Dave
Joined
Sep 15, 2019
Messages
264
Reaction score
158
Location
Canada
Vehicle(s)
JLU
The real issue is no one can 100% identify the problem to find a conclusive fix...otherwise someone would have found a solution.

There are lots of 3rd party mods for steering , stabilizers and etc etc etc and they all help, but none actually FIX this issue 100% from what i have read here and it's a shame some have to pay extra money to get their jeep back to 80 or 90% the steering it should be from the factory.

People who have it bad at say 50% of the normal steering, when applying a fix and getting only to a 70% level ofwhat the steering should be praise the fix and cheer on but in reality it is STILL BROKEN and INCOMPLETE.Not a single person who had the fix that i know of here ever had the GAP/PLAY go away 100%.Some are affected and know it, some are affected and they DO NOT know it and think it is normal behavior, but when and if they try other Jeeps and get in one that has much better steering then a new world opens up.

You can't go out and test drive every jeep on the lot.

After getting it back from service at the dealer now i think for me i am one of the lucky ones who have good steering, but i do NOT like the tyres that i have.the Dueler AT 245-75/17 .
The tyre pressure is set to 34-35 and i am afraid to go to 38 (as recommended) which i know will make it go all over the place like before and hence start another endless cycle.
I think the real issue is economics--cost to fix. Responsibility.
After all steering gear has been around for a long time. I adjusted Volvo steering gear in 1972. It was easy.
 

Boogey

Well-Known Member
First Name
Rami
Joined
Oct 26, 2020
Messages
109
Reaction score
62
Location
Virginia
Vehicle(s)
JLU Sport S 2021
I think the real issue is economics--cost to fix. Responsibility.
After all steering gear has been around for a long time. I adjusted Volvo steering gear in 1972. It was easy.
So what do you think a solution might be , before someone actually gets into a deadly accident and then FCA might listen?
 

2mnycars

Well-Known Member
First Name
Dave
Joined
Sep 15, 2019
Messages
264
Reaction score
158
Location
Canada
Vehicle(s)
JLU
Solution is different where you live. We don't have a lemon law here. We don't have a recall anywhere.

Thank heaven @JeepCares watches the forum.

For US customers anyway.
 
OP
OP
Dusty

Dusty

Well-Known Member
First Name
Russell
Joined
Jul 11, 2020
Messages
183
Reaction score
203
Location
Carson City, NV
Vehicle(s)
2021 JLR
So what do you think a solution might be , before someone actually gets into a deadly accident and then FCA might listen?
If I were Jeep, I’d locate a couple or three of the JLs with this problem and borrow them from the owners. I’d tear them apart and search for the problem, study the issue, devise a solid solution, and send out a new TSB before someone gets hurt or the news media finds out about it.
 
Advertisement

Diode Dynamics
 
Advertisement
Top