Reaching my breaking point... may consider trading my JLUR

Jeep&dogs

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I don’t remember the exact numbers. I think he told me 50 was the threshold that they de-bead and re-seat the tire. All were under 30 and I think half were actually something like 15. The shop seemed really experienced and didn’t think the tires were the cause. One or 2 wheels did need an extra once of weight and they put the best balanced ones on the front. I honestly couldn’t say I noticed a difference though. Tire shop was more concerned with the 12.5 tire on the factory wheel. I needed up getting new wheels but regretted it after because I preferred my stock ones and it wasn’t a factor.
My highest was 38 and they basically said anything over 20 would cause issues. The three that were 20+ they replaced. Two other shops in the area I talked to actually stopped selling the KO2’s, or at least try to avoid selling them at all cost because if balancing issues. I’m currently trying to find a set of stock tires to see if it still does it with them. I actually replaced the ball joints a few days ago and it’s definitely better but still there depending on if I hit the right bump.

One shop I went to had a guy with a Dodge PIckup with the same issue, he finally got BFG to replace all the tires and he went with a different brand and hasn’t been back since.





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Halstem1

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My highest was 38 and they basically said anything over 20 would cause issues. The three that were 20+ they replaced. Two other shops in the area I talked to actually stopped selling the KO2’s, or at least try to avoid selling them at all cost because if balancing issues. I’m currently trying to find a set of stock tires to see if it still does it with them. I actually replaced the ball joints a few days ago and it’s definitely better but still there depending on if I hit the right bump.

One shop I went to had a guy with a Dodge PIckup with the same issue, he finally got BFG to replace all the tires and he went with a different brand and hasn’t been back since.
Totally possible. I’ve actually had a couple bad BFGs on a 3/4 ton truck before. If I had had one shop that questioned the tires, I would have looked at replacing. But 4 different shops look at them. They always had 1 or 2 that they would balance out but they always said they balanced well. If tires weren’t a $2k option, I’d have for sure sure swapped.
 

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Totally possible. I’ve actually had a couple bad BFGs on a 3/4 ton truck before. If I had had one shop that questioned the tires, I would have looked at replacing. But 4 different shops look at them. They always had 1 or 2 that they would balance out but they always said they balanced well. If tires weren’t a $2k option, I’d have for sure sure swapped.
I have the Rusty’s steering sitting in the garage, I’m going to swap that out over the weekend. I also noticed that temperature makes a difference, above 50 it’s pretty solid, 30-40 it rides like a brick and it’s much worse. I have also thought about the possibility the Fox IFP shocks are causing some of the issues. I don’t know, but I can definitely see why you are frustrated.
 

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Once you get a set of BFGs balanced, never mess with them again. Don’t have them re-balanced at rotations. I won’t buy them anymore, even though I love the way they work for everything, because of balance issues
 

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@Halstem1 Got your winch installed yesterday, finally. Shafts are going in here in a few. Thanks again for the parts.

I’ve heard for years about issues with KO2’s, but I’ve never experienced any issues myself. I ran KO2’s on diesel trucks, Jeeps, and a Subaru. I run KM’s now. No issues. Hope you guys get your issues worked out.

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Once you get a set of BFGs balanced, never mess with them again. Don’t have them re-balanced at rotations. I won’t buy them anymore, even though I love the way they work for everything, because of balance issues
I agree, this is my third set and the first set I ever had re balanced. It’s been downhill from there. I keep telling myself it Can’t be the tires but I keep going back to the tires.
 

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Damn you have more patients then I do !
Ha...maybe not, I sold it after the ball joints were replaced. I had taken it to dealers 10+ times for other issues and was considering selling it. The death wobble battle + ball joint replacement at 29k miles made it an easier decision....was mentally done spending time and $ fixing stuff and didn't want to own it out of warranty.

The JL was a blast to build and take wheelin when it didn't have problems. The steering was always sloppy...even after the new steel steering box was installed. My buddy's 20 year old lifted TJ on 33s with stock steering still steered tighter and his stock clutch had better feel. The JL's 2 battery setup also needs an overhaul...had to go to dealer 3 times to get both 1.5 year old batteries replaced. When I sold it, the 9 month old Mopar replacement batteries were at 60% after I had been hooking it up to a tender once a month. :asshat:
 
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@Halstem1, just curious since you are running KO2’s and you said they were road force balanced, do you know what the road force number was? I have started chasing a very similar issue. I did a Dynatrac lift and it was good for several weeks, then I was getting a slight shimmy in the back of the Jeep. I felt it was tire balance related so I had the tires balanced again. That’s when the wobble in the front started. Since then I have had them balanced 3 times and they have actually replaced 3 out of the 5 because they had 30+ road force. Since then it was better but still not right, I have been throwing parts at it for the last few weeks and not making any significant changes. I started ruling the tires out but now I am somewhat going back to them as a possible cause.

Funny thing is the tires were in the Jeep for 5-7k prior to this, they all balanced out with minimal weight when they first were installed. I have had two different places try to balance them over the last month, every time my wobble has been somewhat different, sometimes better and sometimes worse. Right now the two front tires are the only two original tires from when I bought them, and they still have the original weights from the first balance, they are the only two that have not been out of balance every time they have been checked. With these two in front the Jeep drives the best and the wobble is the least noticeable.
Please describe more about your "wobble"? When is it happening and when does it stop? What else has been inspected besides the tires and how was the inspection done? Not all shops perform quality work.
 

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Please describe more about your "wobble"? When is it happening and when does it stop? What else has been inspected besides the tires and how was the inspection done? Not all shops perform quality work.
Well the wobble happens whenever you hit a decent size bump around 40-50 mph. You gat a quick oscillation of the steering wheel side to side 4-5 times. You don’t have to slow down to get it to stop but I believe the Fox ats stabilizer is getting it under control before it goes into full on death wobble.

I have the Dynatrac lift with the Fox IFP shocks, all 8 Clayton overland + control arms, synergy track bars front and rear, synergy sector shaft brace, new cast iron box, and new Spicer ball joints. Caster has been set at 5.8,6.0,6.2,6.4,6.8,7.0. No noticeable difference between them.

I do all my own work, I have been in the industry for 30+ years and I am a Technical trainer for a group of 700+ collision shops throughout the U.S. All the suspension has been torqued with the weight on the Jeep 3 times using two different torque wrenches. Axels are centered within 1/8, also squared to the center section,I have done dry steer tests dozens of times, there has been no movement noticed in any of the joints, ONCE i felt a very slight movement in the RT tie rod end, I have the Rusty’s steering system in the garage I am installing today.

When the Jeep is cold and you first take it for a ride it is noticeably worse, after you are on the road for a while it seems to get better. Also tire pressure seems to make slight changes. I have played with PSI a in .5 increments starting at 27 and going to 33. 28.5 produces the best results, after driving for a while it increases to 29.8-30.3 range. This is one of the reasons I keep going back to tires. I know that as the sidewall warms up it can change the RFV of the tire, I would think it would lower it honestly but I don’t have access to a road force balancer personally to check it when they are cold and also hot. Shock temperatures could come into play as well.

The Jeep drove decent, we were at a jamboree in Kentucky and I cut a tire, when we got home I had the tire replaced and had all the tires rebalanced. I drove the Jeep home from the tire shop and it had a slight vibration. I installed the lift and drove it for a week or so and then brought it back to have the tires balanced again. They were all pretty far out and the road force was high. They re balanced the 4 on the Jeep and at this point replaced one of the 4. I took the Jeep and drove it on a trip, I started feeling the wobble more often, I brought it back to the shop and they checked them again and had another tire over 30 on the road force, they now replaced that tire. So to date there are two of the original 5 tires on the Jeep. I currently have those on the front because they still have the original weights from the install of the tires and have always shown zero when they have been checked for balance.

If I didn’t do the lift around the same time this all started I would 100% say it was a tire, but since all the angles have been changed, shocks, control arms, there are many things that could have started it.

Also my last variable I will throw in her here is the Fox stabilizer. When you quickly turn the wheel to the left there is steady constant resistance, when you turn to the right there is about 1-1/2in of shaft travel that is somewhat less resistance and then it firms up. Realistically the stabilizer should be able to be removed and no difference in steering if it is set up right so I haven’t dug deeper into this.
 
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Well the wobble happens whenever you hit a decent size bump around 40-50 mph. You gat a quick oscillation of the steering wheel side to side 4-5 times. You don’t have to slow down to get it to stop but I believe the Fox ats stabilizer is getting it under control before it goes into full on death wobble.

I have the Dynatrac lift with the Fox IFP shocks, all 8 Clayton overland + control arms, synergy track bars front and rear, synergy sector shaft brace, new cast iron box, and new Spicer ball joints. Caster has been set at 5.8,6.0,6.2,6.4,6.8,7.0. No noticeable difference between them.

I do all my own work, I have been in the industry for 30+ years and I am a Technical trainer for a group of 700+ collision shops throughout the U.S. All the suspension has been torqued with the weight on the Jeep 3 times using two different torque wrenches. Axels are centered within 1/8, also squared to the center section,I have done dry steer tests dozens of times, there has been no movement noticed in any of the joints, ONCE i felt a very slight movement in the RT tie rod end, I have the Rusty’s steering system in the garage I am installing today.

When the Jeep is cold and you first take it for a ride it is noticeably worse, after you are on the road for a while it seems to get better. Also tire pressure seems to make slight changes. I have played with PSI a in .5 increments starting at 27 and going to 33. 28.5 produces the best results, after driving for a while it increases to 29.8-30.3 range. This is one of the reasons I keep going back to tires. I know that as the sidewall warms up it can change the RFV of the tire, I would think it would lower it honestly but I don’t have access to a road force balancer personally to check it when they are cold and also hot. Shock temperatures could come into play as well.

The Jeep drove decent, we were at a jamboree in Kentucky and I cut a tire, when we got home I had the tire replaced and had all the tires rebalanced. I drove the Jeep home from the tire shop and it had a slight vibration. I installed the lift and drove it for a week or so and then brought it back to have the tires balanced again. They were all pretty far out and the road force was high. They re balanced the 4 on the Jeep and at this point replaced one of the 4. I took the Jeep and drove it on a trip, I started feeling the wobble more often, I brought it back to the shop and they checked them again and had another tire over 30 on the road force, they now replaced that tire. So to date there are two of the original 5 tires on the Jeep. I currently have those on the front because they still have the original weights from the install of the tires and have always shown zero when they have been checked for balance.

If I didn’t do the lift around the same time this all started I would 100% say it was a tire, but since all the angles have been changed, shocks, control arms, there are many things that could have started it.

Also my last variable I will throw in her here is the Fox stabilizer. When you quickly turn the wheel to the left there is steady constant resistance, when you turn to the right there is about 1-1/2in of shaft travel that is somewhat less resistance and then it firms up. Realistically the stabilizer should be able to be removed and no difference in steering if it is set up right so I haven’t dug deeper into this.
One thing you said caught my attention and leads me to believe you might have a tire issue. You said it’s worse when you first start driving and gets better when it warms up. Would there be a way for you to temporarily swap tires/ wheels with a fellow keeper who is not having problems...a process of elimination.
 

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ChattVol

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Well the wobble happens whenever you hit a decent size bump around 40-50 mph. You gat a quick oscillation of the steering wheel side to side 4-5 times. You don’t have to slow down to get it to stop but I believe the Fox ats stabilizer is getting it under control before it goes into full on death wobble.

I have the Dynatrac lift with the Fox IFP shocks, all 8 Clayton overland + control arms, synergy track bars front and rear, synergy sector shaft brace, new cast iron box, and new Spicer ball joints. Caster has been set at 5.8,6.0,6.2,6.4,6.8,7.0. No noticeable difference between them.

I do all my own work, I have been in the industry for 30+ years and I am a Technical trainer for a group of 700+ collision shops throughout the U.S. All the suspension has been torqued with the weight on the Jeep 3 times using two different torque wrenches. Axels are centered within 1/8, also squared to the center section,I have done dry steer tests dozens of times, there has been no movement noticed in any of the joints, ONCE i felt a very slight movement in the RT tie rod end, I have the Rusty’s steering system in the garage I am installing today.

When the Jeep is cold and you first take it for a ride it is noticeably worse, after you are on the road for a while it seems to get better. Also tire pressure seems to make slight changes. I have played with PSI a in .5 increments starting at 27 and going to 33. 28.5 produces the best results, after driving for a while it increases to 29.8-30.3 range. This is one of the reasons I keep going back to tires. I know that as the sidewall warms up it can change the RFV of the tire, I would think it would lower it honestly but I don’t have access to a road force balancer personally to check it when they are cold and also hot. Shock temperatures could come into play as well.

The Jeep drove decent, we were at a jamboree in Kentucky and I cut a tire, when we got home I had the tire replaced and had all the tires rebalanced. I drove the Jeep home from the tire shop and it had a slight vibration. I installed the lift and drove it for a week or so and then brought it back to have the tires balanced again. They were all pretty far out and the road force was high. They re balanced the 4 on the Jeep and at this point replaced one of the 4. I took the Jeep and drove it on a trip, I started feeling the wobble more often, I brought it back to the shop and they checked them again and had another tire over 30 on the road force, they now replaced that tire. So to date there are two of the original 5 tires on the Jeep. I currently have those on the front because they still have the original weights from the install of the tires and have always shown zero when they have been checked for balance.

If I didn’t do the lift around the same time this all started I would 100% say it was a tire, but since all the angles have been changed, shocks, control arms, there are many things that could have started it.

Also my last variable I will throw in her here is the Fox stabilizer. When you quickly turn the wheel to the left there is steady constant resistance, when you turn to the right there is about 1-1/2in of shaft travel that is somewhat less resistance and then it firms up. Realistically the stabilizer should be able to be removed and no difference in steering if it is set up right so I haven’t dug deeper into this.
Good details...do you have a friend with jk or jl that will let you swap on his wheels/tires and go for a drive? That would be an easier way to rule out the tires. If you rule tires out...prob related to play in a draglink or tie rod joint which swapping in your Rusty's steering will address. :beer:
 

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That's crazy... it has to be tires (or wheels). I've never had hint of death wobble, however now with upgraded control arms, track bars, and FOX ATS stabilizer it's extremely solid. I can hit any size pothole at any speed with no hands on wheel. Doesn't even flinch.

Have you tried adjusting your FOX ATS firmer? I have mine set at 18 of 25 firmness. Steering is nice and firm.

With all those aftermarket parts it has to be the wheel/tire package or maybe some factory defect.. who knows. Seems a lot of people on this forum have these issues from the time they take ownership.
 

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Installed the Rusty’s steering today and set the toe to 0, without any other changes it drives noticeably better. It’s probably the most solid and planted it has ever felt. There was still a little dead spot in the steering after the new box, that is 100% gone, it feels like the rack and pinion in my wife’s grand Cherokee. Still has a bit of wobble when hitting bumps but it’s very minor. The Rusty’s steering opened up a whole new set of issues, the clamp for the stabilizer rubbed the tire on full lock, I was able to round it off enough to clear the tire but then the tie rod end itself hit the ONE wheel weight that is a pound on, out of ALL the wheels and pulled it off.

I am currently looking for another set of wheels to swap out to see if I can 100% rule out the tires. I do feel that the remaining wobble is tire related now. On asphalt I would say it’s 99% gone, on a section of the local roads that is concrete it has a shimmy you can feel in the wheel and hitting bumps on that section of road the wobble is 85-90% gone.
 

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Hey gang,

thanks to all of you for the sharing.. nice job ChattVol , I write maintenance plans for a living and that was well put together.

I have been reading as much as i can on DW-had an '07 JKU that got it at around 85k and a 65mph all consuming crater on a busy interstate.. 90% cured it with a stabilizer..

on to the still stock '18 JLU.. love her to pieces, but she's not happy with 65+mph since 55K-progressively worse and more frequent, stabilizer made her steer real tight and definitely increased her ability to recover at speed..

so still getting the DW and not content to quit... i went back to my old stock JLUR wheels and tires, considering the stiffer sidewall, and haven't had it yet.. same roads but admittedly i am creeping my speed up to the 65mph..

Here's what I've done/doing
-alignment appointment on 01/04/21
-Teraflex Stabilizer
-changed the wheels and tires to stiffer and known balance set
-considering Track Bar due to it's purpose in life
-I am belaying lifting her, in angst because i actually own it free and clear!

Any thoughts are welcomed.. my wife has a 2019, so I have got to get this whooped!
 

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