Rayshard Brooks killing

Gee-pah

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I've never been in this section of the forum before.

Biases: the killing of African Americans by the police, the lack of true equality in our country among all pains me. I've put my time and money into causes to try to do what I can to change that.

I have friends who are cops. There are individual cops I despise despite my belief that most are trying their best.

It is an impossible job. You're asked to make judgement calls in an instant and want to make it home to see your family. You deal with dirt bags on a regular basis and you get jaded---none of which is justification for killing civilians unless they pose immediately live threaten risk to you as a cop, or other civilians.

I've watch the video of about 10 second before this shooting dozens of times. I have no idea what happened before. Might the initial 911 call not been necessary, might the police have done a better job at deescalating the situation....I just don't know yet, we may never know the complete truth here.

What I see is a struggle where the perpetrator grabs a cop's tazer.

Call it a non deadly weapon all you want--just grant me one exception.

When you point it at an armed cop it might as well be a deadly weapon. If it shocks a cop and renders that officer unable to respond to his/her firearm being taken and potentially used against them or others, that tazer, in that situation, IS a potentially deadly weapon given where it's "successful" discharge and use can find the situation heading.

And was this the ultimately perfect cop shooting? No. This isn't some scene where the cops attempt to talk somebody down even after being stabbed or wounded, and then, when all options but opening fire have been tried, the cops open fire. Could the cops have let Brooks get away to then track him down later: yes.

But was it a righteous shoot? I think, from what little I've seen it was.

If you take a tazer from a cop, flee, and while fleeing point it back in the direction of that cop, their opening fire on you is fair game. This is assuming though that the tazer wasn't already deployed hitting nobody. If it was, and the cop knew it, his opening fire was murder.

The assailant then, given a presumed undeployed tazer could have then turned around and tried again. The cop giving closest chase may have had no idea where his partner was to think, "if I get tazed, my partner can always open fire back."

Do cops need better training, absolutely. Do civilians need better training in how to not escalate, absolutely. Do cops need better training in how not to escalate if civilians do, absolutely.

I could be entirely wrong. What say you?
 
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Gee-pah

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Warning: somewhat graphic

 
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Gee-pah

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I'm not here to offer politics. My focus is on this and only this shooting.

Somewhere early into the 12 second mark of the video it "appears" as if the tazer "may" have been discharged by Brooks. (Maybe this was instead the policeman opening fire.) If this is true, and the cop who opened fire could have been reasonably aware of this unsuccessful deployment of the tazer, and said tazer can only deploy one "round" before resetting (I don't know about tazers), then gunning Brooks down was wrong.

There still is the fact that cops are required to make split second decisions.
 
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Gee-pah

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I believe, but am not certain, the it was known to the cop who opened fire that Mr. Brooks had solely taken a taser from one of the officers trying to apprehend him, not a firearm.

I've read up a little (very little) on tasers since last posting here. Some can fire at multiple targets. I'd like to know whether the taser stolen had such capabilities, and again, whether it was deployed, and whether it was clear to the officer opening fire that such discharge of the taser by Mr. Brooks,if it happened (prior to the officer opening fire) at all, was apparent.

I am NOT saying that charges are inappropriate against the officer here. I just don't know. You don't shoot a fleeing suspect with no deployable weapon: which may (or may not) have been the taser's status based on above.

I no way am I defending (or not defending) this cop. But this is NOT applying pressure to the guy's neck. And this not the incident of the other day where another assailant, who yes was black, died of complications as I understand it, related to asthma and pulmonary function, in part because he fled the police and became winded, and in no way related to trauma those officers inflicted on him.

In that case the female officer said in response to the assailant (truthfully) claiming inability to breath, the less than politically correct, "I don't care."

But I don't care because that officer can't care either.

In this circumstance the proximate cause of such inability to breath, assuming it was true, was not of either of the cop's doings. And I'd feel the same exact way if the cop was male or black, and the assailant female or white. First the suspect was cuffed, then allowed to sit upright to help claimed breathing problems, then EMS was summoned. I don't again know enough about the specific facts here to see if the police could have done better. But from what I know, and I admit it's limited, I don't have any major issue with the way they handle the situation.

Should the police not have been called on this man who died of pulmonary issues or Brooks---that's a fair question to ask and I don't know the answer.

The best and worst thing a cop carries is a gun. It is only because NOT carrying one is the worse of two evils that they do. And with that weapon comes the responsibility to insure that it doesn't get into the hands of an assailant, apart from the possibility that an assailant might be carrying a weapon. If both parties are unlikely to be armed, like in the UK, different strategies can be employed. (I don't want to get into a gun debate here.)

I would like to see training of how to handle the police done on TV, so as to minimize being hurt or killed. In no way are many of these shootings justified, but in many circumstances, actions on the part of the accused could have changed the outcome.
 

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I really hate that the media (inc social) publish these videos because it completely circumvents the justice system and premise of "innocent until proven guilty". I am a big believer in thorough, systematic investigations to determine cause. The court of public opinion followed by gutless political reactions do us all a tremendous injustice by deprioritizing the truth in favor of emotional pacification.

I think that everyday people making these judgements need to put themselves in the executioner's role... if you were the sole person upon whom the fate of these people relied, would you be so quick to judge? wouldn't you want more info? could you live with your conscience if you let a guilty man free or put an innocent man to his death?

These are very serious moral issues and they're being turned into carnivals. I pray that I and my loved ones are never subject to such treatment.
 

BrntWS6

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I have no problem with this shooting. This was not a good guy, he had a rap sheet which included cruelty to children. Cop should not be fired.
If justified shootings continue to go this way we are going to have serious problems in this country.

I am a firm believer cops should have to take a certain amount of yearly hours in Jiu jitsu training.
 
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Gee-pah

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I have no problem with this shooting. This was not a good guy, he had a rap sheet which included cruelty to children. Cop should not be fired.
If justified shootings continue to go this way we are going to have serious problems in this country.

I am a firm believer cops should have to take a certain amount of yearly hours in Jiu jitsu training.
His priors have no relevance unless perhaps responding patrol is aware of his problems with the law, and view him that much more likely a threat.

I think the Jiu jitsu though is a fabulous idea.

Is it even possible that the cop forgot in the heat of the moment that the taser Brooks took fires only one round--assuming that is in fact how the taser in question works.

I saw coverage today on a network I normally watch. "He was obviously tired, was about to peeter himself out?"

Yeah, they woke him up all right, but adrenaline kicked in thereafter. Enough to wrestle two officers and get a taser from one.

I'm not so sure he was about to peeter himself out.

I am against all the recent killings, but this one....okay, maybe the cop at best made a mistake. Try doing their job and have to make split second life or death decisions.

I am all about police reform. I support body cameras. I think they should be running constantly as all too many cops lie while others do nothing. I also think if crime rates rise we'll be leaning in the other direction as a society for the police to get tough again.

It's a balance. Too much in one direction is no good.

They keep on talking about the cops actions. How's about Brooks? Didn't he have a choice to not drink, not drink and drive, not evade arrest, not wrestle with the police, not steal a taser, not fire it at an officer?

"They should have gotten him a ride home." Really, he was DWI. They should have hauled his ass off to prison.

If the cop were black and the perp white, I absolutely support the same outcome here. There is no issue of race for me on this specific incident though of course I believe their is systematic discrimination against African Americans in the U.S.
 
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