Question about 4x4 Gearbox in Wrangler

[nerp]

Ok this is a serious question and I'm sorry if it offends anyone. I've got a Trailhawk Renegade and I love it - it's all factory and she's been offroading a couple of handfuls of times and everything has worked flawlessly. The 4WD Lock, 4WD Low, downhill decent and 4-wheel presets for snow, sand, rock, mud, etc... are awesome. Putting the Renegade into 4WD Lo is a breeze - just push a button. Want to Run 2WD again? Press button. Everything is electronic. No need to stop the car or roll at 2 MPH to change from one mode to another.

There's a parking brake in the Renegade that's also electronic. Pull up and it engages. Push button, it disengages. No jerking up on the parking brake and dealing with the clickity clack.

Here's my question: Why are these conveniences on the Renegade Trailhawk but not on the Rubicon? I ddn't expect to see a stick-shift lookin mug in the center console or a "jerk-it till it works" e-brake.

I asked a dealer and they said: "No one who wants a Rubicon wants those cheap, fake features."

So how are the 4wd basic 2H, 4H, and 4L modes in the Renegade which are accessed by nifty automation different from the ones in the Wrangler and why can't the Wrangler have the nifty automated modes and parking brake?

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[dgriffin1671]

I believe the thought process is that it's something else to break easily where mechanical controls are generally considered more reliable.

 

[simpleJL]

The wrangler has heritage. Your Trailhawk does not.

That's my simple answer.

 

[JDaPP]

I believe the thought process is that it's something else to break easily where mechanical controls are generally considered more reliable.

This. Mechanical things can be fixed on the trail, electrical things can't. I had to manually switch the transfer case on the side when the cable link broke. Couldn't do that on my dad's F150 with a dial. Had to replace the servo motor not something that I could do off-road

 

[ResponsibleAdult]

I’m buying a manual JL, not because I can’t afford the auto, but because I love driving a manual. I don’t want an automatic transmission, I don’t want a push button e-brake, and I want to shift into 4L when I make that choice.

Lots of the driving public feels like you do... Luckily, they make Wrangler so there’s also a vehicle for someone like me.

 

[BillyHW]

What's wrong with having one model of Jeep that is more traditional?

Jeep currently makes 4 models that cater to the futuristic crowd. And I think they are all pretty good.

 

[nerp]

The wrangler has heritage. Your Trailhawk does not.

That's my simple answer.

But, by this thinking, ALL jeeps should have crank-down windows, manual transmissions, and have no radios? In fact, I don't think the Jeep got real 4WD until the 1970's (I'm sure someone would be happy to correct me on that). Heritage or no, it seems as others have said - it's the problem of having "no user serviceable parts inside."

 

[nerp]

This. Mechanical things can be fixed on the trail, electrical things can't. I had to manually switch the transfer case on the side when the cable link broke. Couldn't do that on my dad's F150 with a dial. Had to replace the servo motor not something that I could do off-road

I was born a computer programmer, so the mechanical things actually BAFFLE me - but I feel safer in the womb of electronics. I get the reasoning here, but it makes me wonder how much I need to really know about my Jeep before I can feel free to be more reckless in an off-road situation. I'm awed by your ability to switch a transfer case on the side of the road. I would sit on a rock and suck my thumb if it broke on me.

 

[nerp]

What's wrong with having one model of Jeep that is more traditional?

Jeep currently makes 4 models that cater to the futuristic crowd. And I think they are all pretty good.

Great profile picture. I could actually HEAR Fry saying this in my head.

 

[JDaPP]

I was born a computer programmer, so the mechanical things actually BAFFLE me - but I feel safer in the womb of electronics. I get the reasoning here, but it makes me wonder how much I need to really know about my Jeep before I can feel free to be more reckless in an off-road situation. I'm awed by your ability to switch a transfer case on the side of the road. I would sit on a rock and suck my thumb if it broke on me.

Google it (no I am not kidding). The great thing about jeep wranglers is people work on them and they hang it on the internet. As long as you can describe your problem/roughly the part you are looking for, there is probably something about it. I replaced my oil cooler in my jk last month. Process:
- found oil drops on bottom of jeep
- googled oil leaks jk, looked for the area that resembled mine
- found thread complaining about plastic oil cooler breaking
- found 2 YouTube videos that went step by step
I never did more than change my oil until I got a jeep. Not saying they break a lot but when it does I know I can find what I need on any one of 30+forums. Once you start doing your own mods/repairs it is hard to pay $100 an hour for the simple stuff.

 

[mrnoodley]

The Renegade Trailhawk doesn’t have a 2wd mode, it’s fulltime 4wd. Additionally, the “4low” just uses 1st gear in the transmission. Don’t believe me? Put it in low and accelerate from a stop to 50mph. Now try that in a vehicle that has a real lo range, you can won’t be able to go over 20 or so.

I own a 2015 Trailhawk. It’s a cool little city car, but it’s a totally different type of vehicle than a Wrangler. I’ll happioy keep my mechanical TC shifter, and I’m sure most Wrangler owners would agree.

 

[nerp]

The Renegade Trailhawk doesn’t have a 2wd mode, it’s fulltime 4wd. Additionally, the “4low” just uses 1st gear in the transmission. Don’t believe me? Put it in low and accelerate from a stop to 50mph. Now try that in a vehicle that has a real lo range, you can won’t be able to go over 20 or so.

I own a 2015 Trailhawk. It’s a cool little city car, but it’s a totally different type of vehicle than a Wrangler. I’ll happioy keep my mechanical TC shifter, and I’m sure most Wrangler owners would agree.

I bought my Renegade Trailhawk for 2 reasons: 1) I got stuck one too many times in the desert on BLM land in a lowered Mustang, and 2) I wanted a 4WD that I could use to learn more about whether or not I wanted a "real" 4WD. I've taken the Renegade offroad in Southern California multiple times, towed a camp into the Black Rock desert for the past two years at Burning Man, took a 20 mile offroad trip into the forests of Oregon to watch the lunar eclipse, rock crawled in Arizona, and camped in the middle of nowhere.

I say this to impress on you the following: The Renegade is a pretty darn capable 4WD but I don't know what I'm missing with a mechanical transfer case & shifter. I think the consensus here is that the manual TC on the Wrangler is easier to diagnose and repair than the Renegade. Personally, I'm sure the Wrangler is a more capable 4WD vehicle.

From what you and others say, it sounds like if I got a Rubicon (the current plan), I wouldn't look back... except maybe fondly on the Jeep that started it all for me.

Thanks

 

[kurt13]

Great profile picture. I could actually HEAR Fry saying this in my head.

I've told him the exact same thing before!

 

[macintux]

But, by this thinking, ALL jeeps should have crank-down windows, manual transmissions, and have no radios?

Believe it or not, some of us prefer crank-down windows and manual transmissions on our Jeeps. I am sufficiently “soft” to appreciate my music while on the road, however, and I would never use the horrific phrase “real Jeep” to deride those with different preferences.

In fact, I don't think the Jeep got real 4WD until the 1970's (I'm sure someone would be happy to correct me on that).

Consider yourself corrected. Full-time AWD came out in 1972 per Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-wheel_drive) but 4wd was around for decades before the Willys MB.

 

[nerp]

One year later -- It's funny to read this thread and see what I was thinking back in January of last year. I ended up buying a loaded JLU Sahara and as others predicted: I haven't looked back (except fondly and nostalgically). I've been wheeling at least 2 times a month (and sometimes more) since I got my Wrangler and still use it as a daily driver. So, if you're reading this because you are in a similar conundrum about purchasing your first Jeep Wrangler, I'll give you the benefit of my hindsight:

• Jerk-It 'till it works eBrake: I don't care nearly as much as one-year-ago me seemed to care. Sure, a fancy push button eBrake might be nice, but honestly, I haven't noticed it and don't care.

... the “4low” [on the Renegade] just uses 1st gear in the transmission

• 4WD-Low on the Wrangler: OMG this. I don't know the veracity of MrNoodley's statement above, but the low gear and amazing gearing ratio on the Wrangler has gotten me out of or out-and-out prevented more than one dicey situation. There really is no substitute for the grippy torquey happy feeling of handily rolling through or over something that just plain stops everything else. So, yeah - night and day.
• Lack of electronic transfer case: I still bemoan this issue and initially, I had my fair share of grindy gear sounds as I tried to shift into 4WD-Low while not in Neutral or rolling forward. It's not idiot-proof but that just means perhaps you shouldn't be an idiot. That said, I have yet to have need to change a transfer case on the side of the road but I stock duct tape, large zip ties, and bailing wire in my off-road Jeep fix-it kit just in case. :P
• Nanny features: I got the safety package on my Sahara and honestly, I just usually fight to find ways to turn them off. When you're towing, the park sense freaks out and needs to be turned off and if you want to retain this feature and change out your rear bumper, you might have an issue. You can't open the driver's door and drive the vehicle because some automatic braking thing stops you. The best safety features I've found are the back up camera and the blind spot detectors (though in a slot canyon the blind spot detectors falsely trigger).
• Windshield fold-down: I just plain don't know why you would do this but there were a lot of obvious design decisions that went into enabling this feature because of its "heritage." I am curious to know the practical reason that anyone who has folded their windshield down would cite for having done so ("I wanted bugs in my teeth" doesn't count as "practical").
• 4WD-Part Time vs. 4WD-Full Time: ... and here's my number one reason for not buying the Rubicon: the lack of Full Time 4WD. My fears of drive line bind, axle bind, windup, and "binding hubs" which result from using your part-time 4WD on inappropriate surfaces caused me to want a "please don't make me decide" mode. That's what full-time 4WD is: a transfer case mode that saves me from the worry of my own bad decisions. If I'm on a good compacted dirt road with grippy aired down tires, do I really need part-time 4WD engaged? I didn't want to think about this. I do, however, regret not having some of the more beefy Rubicon features like the lift, larger tires, and upgraded axles, but the trade-off was peace of mind for me.

I hope this helps someone else make their own decision.

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