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jimlove9771

jimlove9771

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Just curious, you still running the factory radiator and fan? Was wondering how your coolant temp was.
No change in factory radiator or fan. Coolant temperature never crosses over half way up the gauge.
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Jim - really seems like a great project. I look forward to hear more about your A/F stability as the kit & tune continues to mature. Additional customers will also help! As in the dyno sheets I emailed you, as the knowledge base and overall system matures, I expect that your going to have a more stable boost curve. Boost should ramp up to the target psi and assuming load stays the same (WOT, for example), boost should be a flat line. (It is essential to get a handle on smooth, consistent boost - otherwise tuning becomes a LOT more complicated!) The wastegate will have a physical spring in it and this spring is generally about 1/2 the maximum psi that you want the system to have. For example, if you want to run a max of 8psi of boost, the wastegate will have ~4psi spring in it. With this physical set-up (and nothing else), the turbo would ramp to 4psi and the wastegate would open. So, in addition to the wastegate spring, a system will also employ a regulator. The regulator can either be purely mechanical or electro-mechanical (controlled by an electronic device). Either way, the regulator will ADD (air) to the resistance of the physical wastegate spring..... so now the wastegate has to overcome the spring AND this air pressure. Fundamentally the idea is that this additive air (especially when controlled electronically via a boost control solenoid) can give you a smooth, linear and controlled boost curve. Hope this helps you to at least have a conceptual understanding of these key components.

I am excited to see how this system progresses!
They don't come with a boost controller and they don't recommend anything other than running on the spring they supply. That said I'm curious to see what the final numbers are. If it were me I'd have a electronic boost controller with a couple of boost settings along with some methanol on it. Ideally one low boost setting for no meth. One medium boost setting with meth but not pushing it too hard for everyday driving and another high boost for short pulls when maximum power is wanted. I'm not sure if you could run no meth on the low setting once you added it for the other higher boost settings because you could probably throw more timing at it while on the meth. That no meth setting might hurt your on meth numbers more than it's worth but if someone could make that work, I think that would be ideal.
 
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jimlove9771

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They don't come with a boost controller and they don't recommend anything other than running on the spring they supply. That said I'm curious to see what the final numbers are. If it were me I'd have a electronic boost controller with a couple of boost settings along with some methanol on it. Ideally one low boost setting for no meth. One medium boost setting with meth but not pushing it too hard for everyday driving and another high boost for short pulls when maximum power is wanted. I'm not sure if you could run no meth on the low setting once you added it for the other higher boost settings because you could probably throw more timing at it while on the meth. That no meth setting might hurt your on meth numbers more than it's worth but if someone could make that work, I think that would be ideal.
There is no way that I am going to that extreme. Look at my goal. It was and still is just to make a viable and somewhat rugged looking off road capable vehicle while simultaneously achieving a great street racer and sleeper. Not an easy achievement but I think I’m going to make it to my satisfaction.
 

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Jim,

Sounds like a great plan! I'm sure Mike will tell you the same.... just have an agree A/F "cut-off" point at which you would terminate the dyno pull if you "see" it. For example, if, during a WOT pull the A/F go higher than 13.0, you immediately stop the pull. (Let Mike tell you what the "13" number should be based on his experience. ) You just don't want to ever run lean during a pull - but other than that, remote tuning can be great idea. Hopefully the dyno will also have the provision for you to track boost (you won't get that through OBD2) as boost will be another parameter that Mike would like to see - especially if it is not dead nuts stable.

Sounds like you are in good hands.

Oh, my personal opinion is that you shouldn't have expectations to have improvements on your 0-60 and 1/4 mi times - those are already great numbers for a damn Jeep!! I think your objective should be to have a tune that lets you have that kind of performance day in and day out with OEM-like reliability! That would be the ultimate achievement. Look forward to seeing your dyno results!
 

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There is no way that I am going to that extreme. Look at my goal. It was and still is just to make a viable and somewhat rugged looking off road capable vehicle while simultaneously achieving a great street racer and sleeper. Not an easy achievement but I think I’m going to make it to my satisfaction.
It's not that extreme and even if you never did the meth you would still be safer with a electronic boost controller than without. You can run a softer spring in the wastegate using a electronic boost controller than without and if for whatever you build more boost than you set for your max boost in your controller then it will go into a over boost situation were it will revert back to just the spring. You probably don't know what I'm talking about but it is safer. Not that you couldn't still be able to blow it up if something was way off.
 

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Jim,

Sounds like a great plan! I'm sure Mike will tell you the same.... just have an agree A/F "cut-off" point at which you would terminate the dyno pull if you "see" it. For example, if, during a WOT pull the A/F go higher than 13.0, you immediately stop the pull. (Let Mike tell you what the "13" number should be based on his experience. ) You just don't want to ever run lean during a pull - but other than that, remote tuning can be great idea. Hopefully the dyno will also have the provision for you to track boost (you won't get that through OBD2) as boost will be another parameter that Mike would like to see - especially if it is not dead nuts stable.

Sounds like you are in good hands.

Oh, my personal opinion is that you shouldn't have expectations to have improvements on your 0-60 and 1/4 mi times - those are already great numbers for a damn Jeep!! I think your objective should be to have a tune that lets you have that kind of performance day in and day out with OEM-like reliability! That would be the ultimate achievement. Look forward to seeing your dyno results!
The reason I hope to improve my 0-60 and 1/4 mi times is that I am re gearing from stock 3.45 to 4.88.
 
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Like Christmas eve lol.

Hell of a deal! I would like to know about build of the Jeep you’re putting this in and keep us all informed as you make progress on the install, the tune and maybe your dyno results. Looking forward to following you. Maybe you should start your own thread instead of tacking onto this one. That way it would be easier to follow.
 
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Hell of a deal! I would like to know about build of the Jeep you’re putting this in and keep us all informed as you make progress on the install, the tune and maybe your dyno results. Looking forward to following you. Maybe you should start your own thread instead of tacking onto this one. That way it would be easier to follow.
Readers, Prodigy has issued a recall on the Presision waste gate. Precision has admitted that it has a manufacturing flaw. Prodigy is switching to a Tial 38mm gate. The only problem is the spring rate. My existing gate has an 8 psi spring and the nearest rates available now will be either 7.25 or 8.7. OST Dyno has said that I am at the limit of the fuel injectors and any higher boost would be too lean. It’s very dissapointing but I may actually have to lose power to remain safe and reliable operation.

I have asked OST to consider using one of the lower spring rates (7.25 or even 5.8) in conjunction with a boost controller to avoid the loss of power while gaining some additional but marginal benefits. I shall have to wait for Mike at OST’s recommendation before we proceed.

Does anybody have any thoughts on this delima? I have fought hard to maximize power while maintaining safe and reliable operation of the engine so it will certainly be very dissapointing to be forced to reduce it. Sadly safety and reliability must rule if absolutely necessary.
 

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For what it’s worth, my vote is on conservative until some of the bugs are sorted out. Run the lower pressure spring. You can always install a heavier spring and retune later.

If you run out of injectors, you can burn a hole through a piston or experience detonation, which can break connecting rods, especially ones designed for naturally aspirated engines.
 

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Jim, I've never heard of a turbo setup where boost is regulated solely by the spring. As I stated in a previous post, a much more common method is to have your wastegate spring at about 1/2 of your desired max boost and then to run a regulator to dial in the exact boost you want. The regulator can be completely manual - and you don't have to spend a lot (<$60). Both the Tial have Precision wastegates have ports to accommodate this kind of plumbing. If 8psi is your target max, install a spring for 4psi. Here's some examples of regulators. http://www.turbosmartdirect.com/Product-Categories/Manual-Boost-Controllers/

Your tuner will have his own method/preference for tuning. Undoubtedly, boost will be set down to 4-6 psi for the first pulls until the tuner feels that he's got good control (enough fuel) and only then would they increase boost. In the only dyno charts that I have seen thus far.... and as we discussed previously, the tail-up of a/f's at the higher RPM is either a tuning issues - or an indication that the fuel injectors just couldn't deliver the amount of fuel being commanded by the tune. The tuner will be able to look at the duty cycle of the injectors during a pull and know when the injector limit is being approached. I can't tell you how important it is to get a competent, seasoned, tuner.
 
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Mine having shipped just last week, came with the Tial wastegate. Ill let you know how it works out.
 

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Jim, just to save me a phone call, the change in waste gates is to flatten the boost and better control the air fuel? Im referring to your dyno sheet but beyond that I dont recall what your actual "issue" was. Thanks
 
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Jim, I've never heard of a turbo setup where boost is regulated solely by the spring. As I stated in a previous post, a much more common method is to have your wastegate spring at about 1/2 of your desired max boost and then to run a regulator to dial in the exact boost you want. The regulator can be completely manual - and you don't have to spend a lot (<$60). Both the Tial have Precision wastegates have ports to accommodate this kind of plumbing. If 8psi is your target max, install a spring for 4psi. Here's some examples of regulators. http://www.turbosmartdirect.com/Product-Categories/Manual-Boost-Controllers/

Your tuner will have his own method/preference for tuning. Undoubtedly, boost will be set down to 4-6 psi for the first pulls until the tuner feels that he's got good control (enough fuel) and only then would they increase boost. In the only dyno charts that I have seen thus far.... and as we discussed previously, the tail-up of a/f's at the higher RPM is either a tuning issues - or an indication that the fuel injectors just couldn't deliver the amount of fuel being commanded by the tune. The tuner will be able to look at the duty cycle of the injectors during a pull and know when the injector limit is being approached. I can't tell you how important it is to get a competent, seasoned, tuner.
Thank you for your response and I am arguing that using a lesser spring and adding a boost controller. We will see how that works out.

One thing I will say is that I firmly believe that my tuner is not only competent and seasoned he is one of the top tuners in the community. I would never hav even considered him if I did not think so. I am certain when this process is complete I will have a very safe, reliable, stable and powerful turbo charged Jeeps on the planet.
 

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My vote is a electronic boost controller with multiple boost settings. Then a Aly Control Methanol kit so you can run even more boost at one of the settings and compensate for your lack of fuel injector with a big fat shot of 100% methanol.

Also far as fuel injectors go, I thought they gave you new injectors with the kit. If so they should have given you injectors big enough to give you more wiggle room than that. I'd complain about that too. Unless it's your fuel pump running out of fuel to the injectors. In that case I think your ready for a Walbro 450 with a hot wire kit.

I did a cutout off my Downpipe too, was good for about 50 horsepower on the dyno on that truck.

Not telling you to do anything I don't do myself. In the one video I go through boost settings and when you see the AFR drop that's me testing/purging my meth. The other video is my cutout.




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