Plug-In Hybrid Wrangler Coming in 2020 Announces Jeep CEO

Raylan Givens

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The question I have is; what is the cost? I have seen the Range Rover PHEV information and it appears to be a significant cost increase and can go 31 miles on electric only. I can see the benefits of torque on demand from the electric motor as well as reducing pollution and fuel costs, but it needs to be priced at a point where it makes sense to purchase. When I worked for Cisco I could have driven directly to work, parked in one of the free charging spots up front and never have used the gas engine during the week, but saving a couple of dollars a day on fuel doesn't add up to a huge savings. Even less savings if you are charging at home and adding to the electric bill.





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scramboleer

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The question I have is; what is the cost? I have seen the Range Rover PHEV information and it appears to be a significant cost increase and can go 31 miles on electric only. I can see the benefits of torque on demand from the electric motor as well as reducing pollution and fuel costs, but it needs to be priced at a point where it makes sense to purchase. When I worked for Cisco I could have driven directly to work, parked in one of the free charging spots up front and never have used the gas engine during the week, but saving a couple of dollars a day on fuel doesn't add up to a huge savings. Even less savings if you are charging at home and adding to the electric bill.
I think the fuel savings is secondary. The instant torque and quiet operation especially off-road would be pretty sweet in my book.

A plug-in hybrid Wrangler seems like a great application. As you mentioned, if you can charge at home and work, much of the daily driving could be electric. And for the off-road runs, you can drive there in gasoline hybrid mode and when you get there, switch to electric-only mode.

I can't wait for this... and my other Jeeps are a '82 CJ8 and a stock '64 Willys Wagon.
 

thenewrick

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It'll likely be just like the Pacifica. Torque assist off the line and a little better mpg than the standard 3.6L setup. The battery is so small you'll have to charge it everyday for maximum efficiency.

My guess is half a second slower to 60. 28mpg if you don't plug it in. Handle and drive about the same as regulation version. Maybe slightly worse offroading because of weight penalty and packaging.

If the $7500 credit is still available, it'll be the most economical one to get long-term as long as no maintenance gremlins pop up.
 

Raylan Givens

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It'll likely be just like the Pacifica. Torque assist off the line and a little better mpg than the standard 3.6L setup. The battery is so small you'll have to charge it everyday for maximum efficiency.

My guess is half a second slower to 60. 28mpg if you don't plug it in. Handle and drive about the same as regulation version. Maybe slightly worse offroading because of weight penalty and packaging.

If the $7500 credit is still available, it'll be the most economical one to get long-term as long as no maintenance gremlins pop up.
Having $7500 in credits is nice, but I think when those credits eventually go away the price becomes too much for the average person. Eventually these electric and hybrids should drop in price and allow them to compete in the market without incentives. I am just not sure they are ready yet and I believe the incentives will go away.
 

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Yea that’s the point of the tax cuts. Make clean energy cheaper for consumers until technology increases and production costs decrease.
 

Raylan Givens

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Yea that’s the point of the tax cuts. Make clean energy cheaper for consumers until technology increases and production costs decrease.
I understand the intent of the tax breaks, but I see them going away with the argument being to let the market decide what the customer wants. The other side of the argument is that the government needs to save us from ourselves and get more environmentally friendly options on the roads. I don't see latter argument winning out in the current political environment, especially when it comes time to reduce government spending. Those with disposable income may have no problem paying extra to reduce their carbon footprint, the average person who has no money in the bank and lives paycheck to paycheck would rather save money and use gas. I could be wrong, but I see there being a time when the credits are gone and the technology isn't affordable enough to be successful.
 

scramboleer

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I understand the intent of the tax breaks, but I see them going away with the argument being to let the market decide what the customer wants. The other side of the argument is that the government needs to save us from ourselves and get more environmentally friendly options on the roads. I don't see latter argument winning out in the current political environment, especially when it comes time to reduce government spending. Those with disposable income may have no problem paying extra to reduce their carbon footprint, the average person who has no money in the bank and lives paycheck to paycheck would rather save money and use gas. I could be wrong, but I see there being a time when the credits are gone and the technology isn't affordable enough to be successful.
Yeah, while i am an ardent believer in the free market, there are very few things that aren't subsidized at some point in the supply chain. And while I believe in supply and demand, you also can't discount the power of marketing on consumers. For example, how many people need 20,000 lb. towing capacity of the current Big 3 pickups. Their capacities are amazing and some customers (horse/boat/contractors) do need them; not sure how much the mass market does, but they are the top selling vehicles year-after-year.

I applaud Jeep for putting a plug-in powertrain into a true offroader. There aren't many technical reasons why the OEMs don't put a Volt-like powertrain into a hot selling crossover. That being said, mass-market, plug-in crossovers are coming in the next few years. Ford will launch a plug-in Ford Escape later this year and has a 300 mile 2020 model year crossover coming. Toyota has announced they will bring to market at 250+ mile range RAV4-sized crossover in 2019. There already are high-end plug-in crossover/SUVs on the market - BMW X5, Mercedes GLE class, Tesla Model X. Audi is bringing a long-range 300 mile SUV to market this year.

I think a plug-in 3 row Jeep Wagoneer would be pretty cool. Jeep did show a plug-in three row prototype (not called the Wagoneer) at a big auto show in China last year...
 

FranklinFlyer

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I think a plug-in 3 row Jeep Wagoneer would be pretty cool. Jeep did show a plug-in three row prototype (not called the Wagoneer) at a big auto show in China last year...
What about the leaked Grand Commander sketch and the prototype which was spotted in Michigan. I think it will definitely available with a plug in option.
jeepyuntu-us3-1.jpg

meet-the-jeep-comman-4.jpg
 

thenewrick

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The tax cuts do expire depending on how many vehicles the automaker sells. It's mostly a little boost to help but 200k vehicles is really not a lot. It's a very short term program and won't cost much.
 

The Great Grape Ape

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I understand the intent of the tax breaks, but I see them going away with the argument being to let the market decide what the customer wants.
That’s all well and good, but while the petroleum and traditional energy producers get intervening subsidies, tax breaks, liability limitations and other benefits (depending on how much you want to charge for foreign interventionism too), then it only makes sense that similar incentives would be given to alternative energy as well. Sadly a lot of those alternatives in the auto industry still rely on traditional carbon base sourced, dirtier than gasoline, like bunker fuel or coal.

The big problem is real-world accounting, there isn’t enough of that going on and past governments from both camps tended to hide and absorb the added costs in existing sources, yet everyone loses their mind when a fraction is spent on new sources. Make them all pay their full real costs and the economics would change greatly, and more likely not favour the traditional sources.
However with the current administration south of the border it’s unlikely that alternative sources will get anywhere near the attention as coal, despite employing more people and offering more export tech opportunities as well. Now there is still state level efforts that push the industry forward especially in states like California that have great influence on the industry.

Also, they need to keep ontop of the changes in the industry to remain relevant for other markets, and to avoid having foreign companies take their lunch again like they did in the 70s with the first US wave of fuel efficient vehicles. As scramboleer mentioned, everyone else is working in that direction, so at this point its a question of “me too” for most manufacturers.
 

Karl_in_Chicago

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I understand the intent of the tax breaks, but I see them going away with the argument being to let the market decide what the customer wants. The other side of the argument is that the government needs to save us from ourselves and get more environmentally friendly options on the roads. I don't see latter argument winning out in the current political environment, especially when it comes time to reduce government spending. Those with disposable income may have no problem paying extra to reduce their carbon footprint, the average person who has no money in the bank and lives paycheck to paycheck would rather save money and use gas. I could be wrong, but I see there being a time when the credits are gone and the technology isn't affordable enough to be successful.
I don't disagree - but there's too much politics to actually allow the free market to decide here. I mean I'll believe it when they get rid of the stupid mandated ethanol rules (10% minimum here in Illinois) that have nothing to do with energy independence and everything to do with Big Agra (corn).
 

thenewrick

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Every industry gets various tax breaks and political help. That's neither here nor there.

It's good when the breaks help with progress. Look on the bright side.
 

Karl_in_Chicago

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Every industry gets various tax breaks and political help. That's neither here nor there.

It's good when the breaks help with progress. Look on the bright side.
Ethanol is not progress.
 

thenewrick

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I was referring to hybrids and EV's. I don't mind ethanol. It's probably unnecessary but I don't think it's a big deal. A very small minority don't like it and a very small minority love it.
 

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