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KnG818

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my point is if you want to debate it that’s cool. Just try to make valid arguments. Or you can continue to come off like an ignorant douche. I guess that’s cool too. So i guess you’re right. I don’t really have a point.
Ignorant douche? Far from

...just under the impression most folks like yourself have basic common knowledge to keep up with what is being said.

Can you quote me on an argument that you think is invalid? I will certainly try and explain myself better.
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ThirtyOne

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Ignorant douche? Far from

...just under the impression most folks like yourself have basic common knowledge to keep up with what is being said.

Can you quote me on an argument that you think is invalid? I will certainly try and explain myself better.
Ok. Ill bite -

- You can't do overlanding or long trips, or use it when there is a power outage - The Wrangler PHEV is a hybrid. Not an EV. So it has a gas engine with gas in it. Likely a longer range than a pure ICE and you can still re-fill it with gas for overlanding or if the power goes out

- Electric cars are a pure balance transfer from a power consumption standpoint - As many posters pointed out it isn't that simple. power plants are more efficient than cars, many plants now use cleaner energy, regen braking is clean, and for those that have made the investment in solar they can charge with clean energy.

- Volcanos emit carbon too. This is a logical fallacy. Just because one thing is bad doesn't mean another thing can't be bad.

- Punctuating your arguments with dismissive references to "Liberal Logic" - First of all, while energy policy can be liberal or conservative, believing in climate change or caring about the environment is not inherently political. Certainly valid arguments to be made on both sides of the policy debate. But no one even brought up energy policy or government action, so you're not really responding to what people are saying. Just throwing shade.

- What about people who can't afford all this solar power and special chargers? What about the common man in the real world? Dude. These Jeeps are $50k+ toys. The average Jeep buyer makes six figures. The common man is not buying a new Jeep anyway. It's irrelevant to the argument of whether there is a point to this configuration. And for people who have already made the investment in solar this configuration makes some sense.

- Electric cars are just about image and culture. Yes. They are. And so are Jeeps. What is wrong with that?

- You will never pay off the $20k investment in solar power. Well, you certainly won't if you are just using it to offset the cost of charging a vehicle. But that's not why people buy a solar roof. It's also to power their home, get credits, and maybe sell power back to the power company. And to lower their carbon footprint. If they have already made that investment then getting an EV or plug-in can leverage that investment.

- Using a fast charger will smoke the battery - In fairness this was phrased as a question so maybe you were genuinely curious. In which case you got your answer. Studies show that it doesn't.

- Guy says the power company pays him for his extra power. He also pays a road tax. So you say - so you do pay for your power. No. He doesn't. He pays a road tax. That's not the same thing as paying for power.

Looking forward to you explaining yourself better but frankly not expecting much.
 

GreyFox

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Ok. Ill bite -

- You can't do overlanding or long trips, or use it when there is a power outage - The Wrangler PHEV is a hybrid. Not an EV. So it has a gas engine with gas in it. Likely a longer range than a pure ICE and you can still re-fill it with gas for overlanding or if the power goes out

- Electric cars are a pure balance transfer from a power consumption standpoint - As many posters pointed out it isn't that simple. power plants are more efficient than cars, many plants now use cleaner energy, regen braking is clean, and for those that have made the investment in solar they can charge with clean energy.

- Volcanos emit carbon too. This is a logical fallacy. Just because one thing is bad doesn't mean another thing can't be bad.

- Punctuating your arguments with dismissive references to "Liberal Logic" - First of all, while energy policy can be liberal or conservative, believing in climate change or caring about the environment is not inherently political. Certainly valid arguments to be made on both sides of the policy debate. But no one even brought up energy policy or government action, so you're not really responding to what people are saying. Just throwing shade.

- What about people who can't afford all this solar power and special chargers? What about the common man in the real world? Dude. These Jeeps are $50k+ toys. The average Jeep buyer makes six figures. The common man is not buying a new Jeep anyway. It's irrelevant to the argument of whether there is a point to this configuration. And for people who have already made the investment in solar this configuration makes some sense.

- Electric cars are just about image and culture. Yes. They are. And so are Jeeps. What is wrong with that?

- You will never pay off the $20k investment in solar power. Well, you certainly won't if you are just using it to offset the cost of charging a vehicle. But that's not why people buy a solar roof. It's also to power their home, get credits, and maybe sell power back to the power company. And to lower their carbon footprint. If they have already made that investment then getting an EV or plug-in can leverage that investment.

- Using a fast charger will smoke the battery - In fairness this was phrased as a question so maybe you were genuinely curious. In which case you got your answer. Studies show that it doesn't.

- Guy says the power company pays him for his extra power. He also pays a road tax. So you say - so you do pay for your power. No. He doesn't. He pays a road tax. That's not the same thing as paying for power.

Looking forward to you explaining yourself better but frankly not expecting much.
Wow I didn't know I made 6 figures! Yeah, I know you said average Jeep owner:LOL:... I looked into solar here in Ohio and to offset 76% of my average electric bill was $45k! O, but the solar company tried selling me in that it will raise the value of my home $20k... And it would take me roughly 22 years to recoup my investment:movember:. Yeah, $45k may not be that much for you guys in California, but for Ohio farm country, that's an entire years salary, if not more.
 

ThirtyOne

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Wow I didn't know I made 6 figures! Yeah, I know you said average Jeep owner:LOL:... I looked into solar here in Ohio and to offset 76% of my average electric bill was $45k! O, but the solar company tried selling me in that it will raise the value of my home $20k... And it would take me roughly 22 years to recoup my investment:movember:. Yeah, $45k may not be that much for you guys in California, but for Ohio farm country, that's an entire years salary, if not more.
Yeah it definitely doesn't make sense for everybody. I looked into it here in NC and the numbers didn't work for me. But the trend is certainly in the right direction so I hope in 5-10 years it will have cost parity with traditional roofs. The problem is I already have a roof.
 

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@ThirtyOne @Sean K.
O I'd love to have solar, but right now it isn't feasible. But maybe in 5,10 or 15 years when technology improves and competition is more readily available:like:
 

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ThirtyOne

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Well, and if it's anything like what happened in Europe, once utility companies saw a drop in revenue due to solar installation on residences and businesses, they just raised the per kW hour rate to compensate, especially when countries like Germany were first venturing into the renewables market. The plus side was less power was needed...but savings didn't materialize once government got involved due to higher fees/taxes and investment into alternate sources of power outside fossil fuels. In short, individuals' bills continue to rise, but are probably lower than they would have been if they hadn't gone solar (the key word there is "probably").

Hard to say how that plays out here, but if your state gives a hefty rebate to install it, it may make sense....you have to do the math as GreyFox did to see if it does for you.

Sad that I'm having to spend time italicizing things....especially since there seem to be so many sensitive folks on this site. Oh well. :)
In theory the solar installations should be welcome by the power companies. The step costs in building new capacity are very high requiring a lot of capital up front and a long time to pay back. And one thing I agree with @KnG818 on is we are using more and more electricity and green cars will just contribute to that. The solar installations would just offset new capacity and not cut into core revenue.

But that is just in theory. In practice, like you said, it's hard to say how it will play out here.
 

Kevin Mojito

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I looked into solar here in Ohio and to offset 76% of my average electric bill was $45k! O, but the solar company tried selling me in that it will raise the value of my home $20k... And it would take me roughly 22 years to recoup my investment:movember:.
Yikes. That does not workout to well. Here In Washington most systems are repaid 4.5-5 years. The latest incentives take longer, 7-10 year.
Our net metering rate is ( was ) $0.47kwh I think it's dropped to $0.15 kwh on the latest incentive. I don't think the resale house prices are valid yet. Most systems have not been out long enough to tell the whole story yet. I also noticed they will not let you build a large systems any longer. You can only do offset %. Still not bad, but...... I take care of my folks power along with all my power needs. The PUD still gets some free power from me with the annual zero out the account crap. That's ok still make money for 2 more years :) after that just no power bill.
 

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Yikes. That does not workout to well. Here In Washington most systems are repaid 4.5-5 years. The latest incentives take longer, 7-10 year.
Our net metering rate is ( was ) $0.47kwh I think it's dropped to $0.15 kwh on the latest incentive. I don't think the resale house prices are valid yet. Most systems have not been out long enough to tell the whole story yet. I also noticed they will not let you build a large systems any longer. You can only do offset %. Still not bad, but...... I take care of my folks power along with all my power needs. The PUD still gets some free power from me with the annual zero out the account crap. That's ok still make money for 2 more years :) after that just no power bill.
Yep, if I had solar, I'd definitely get the PHEV:like:... And when I say repaid in 22 years, I mean if I take my current power bill of $175(avg) and divide that into the $45k. After 22yrs, the system would be producing "free" energy.
 

Kevin Mojito

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Yep, if I had solar, I'd definitely get the PHEV:like:... And when I say repaid in 22 years, I mean if I take my current power bill of $175(avg) and divide that into the $45k. After 22yrs, the system would be producing "free" energy.
Ok I see where you are coming from. You don't want solar if the State is not paying you for the power. Unless you want to be "off grid". I want the money!!
We got 30% of the bill paid from the Fed's, State per kwh made then local PUD zero's out your meter. It's like a triple dip repay on the solar system.
 

KnG818

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Ok I see where you are coming from. You don't want solar if the State is not paying you for the power. Unless you want to be "off grid". I want the money!!
We got 30% of the bill paid from the Fed's, State per kwh made then local PUD zero's out your meter. It's like a triple dip repay on the solar system.
....that I'm paying for
 

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ThirtyOne

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DevilDog305

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Yes....because everyone can afford solar.

Curious, how much did your solar panels cost you?
Well I’m assuming if you can afford a 50k vehicle then you can afford a solar array which range in price from 10k on up. Plus you get 30% back in tax credit. Even if I paid the full price you would make your money back in 5/7 years. Solar panels have come down on price significantly, under $1/watt.
 

KnG818

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Well I’m assuming if you can afford a 50k vehicle then you can afford a solar array which range in price from 10k on up. Plus you get 30% back in tax credit. Even if I paid the full price you would make your money back in 5/7 years. Solar panels have come down on price significantly, under $1/watt.
FWIW $75,000

....wait 7 years until start saving a few cents? No thanks
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