Plug-In Hybrid Electric Wrangler Still on Track for 2020 Release Date

prototyp3

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In theory I agree wholeheartedly, but that setup only works because the i3 is so light. That car has SO MUCH clever engineering to make it light enough for a 2-stroke motor to feed the battery, and even then it gets itself into trouble by running out of buffer when the car is dealing with a perfect storm of sustained incline + cold weather + highway speed. Imagine stuffing 33" tires underneath it. the whole model sort of blows up. You'd need a bigger motor, which means more weight, which means less range, which means now we're right back to the PHEV model.

My dream is to have an all-electric Rubicon with a roof that folds out solar panels. Tesla is teasing us with that concept for Cybertruck, claiming 15-40 extra miles of range per day. Would be amazing on a Wrangler as well. Maybe a next-gen aftermarket mod. Basically I want Cybertruck specs in a Wrangler body. 500 miles of range, 14k lb towing, and the solar option.
The Wrangler would absolutely be at a disadvantage like you've pointed out, with the reduced aerodynamics, larger tires, metal frame, etc. The engineers need to earn their money somehow, they better figure it out. At least nobody expects 35 to 40 mpg for a Wrangler, so they could afford to lose a lot of efficiency with the inevitable losses.

Having the charge level dip beyond what the generator can keep up with really only happens at constant 70+mph speeds. I don't imagine many will be doing those speeds through the woods or over rocky terrain, so it should be able to manage the fun environments just fine.

I've never been a fan of variable power dynamics under foot. When I step on the accelerator I want to know exactly what's going to happen. I don't like the different response of electric power sometimes, with ICE power or a combination of both at other times. I've never owned a vehicle like that, so maybe you just get used to it quickly.

I'm excited to see how the Cybertruck turns out, I've got my placeholder reservation. The solar panel integration is clever. Let's stick a crank on there as well, so the kids or wives have something helpful to do!





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Gee-pah

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In one of the original videos linked to this thread, the commentator compared the Pacifica PHEV, which is fully loaded with creature comforts he claimed, to a fully loaded ICE Pacifica and claimed about a $6K purchase price difference.

From a purely mathematical exercise, in ideal conditions where you have excess home produced solar power over that you take from the utility in a "net metering state" (your utility bill is $0) I STILL wonder how many (electric) miles you'd have to drive with a PHEV Wrangler JL to reach a break even $ point over the up front purchase price difference to a comparably feature rich purely ICE Wrangler JL. And that's not even counting repairs to these rigs.

The irony to this is to get the most electric miles you have to do lots of small trip driving across lots of trips, each between power charges.

Sure--there's the greenness of it, and such calculations will vary with the cost of gasoline/diesel, but even in this rarest of situations where you are already produce your own excess power beyond that needed, it may still take a while to justify the cost difference on dollars alone.

..and that's before a lift kit or towing stuff, which are apt to drain the batteries in even less miles than the stock rig.

I'm not against manufacturers being forced to adopt entry level electric solutions, but it strikes me as maybe a hard case to make to the consumer in $ outlay alone.

If people know better I'd love to be told otherwise, as if my assumptions are wrong, the environment wins more.

;)On this plus side, the rig probably won't have an ESS system for those who hate ESS.
 

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In one of the original videos linked to this thread, the commentator compared the Pacifica PHEV, which is fully loaded with creature comforts he claimed, to a fully loaded ICE Pacifica and claimed about a $6K purchase price difference.

From a purely mathematical exercise, in ideal conditions where you have excess home produced solar power over that you take from the utility in a "net metering state" (your utility bill is $0) I STILL wonder how many (electric) miles you'd have to drive with a PHEV Wrangler JL to reach a break even $ point over the up front purchase price difference to a comparably feature rich purely ICE Wrangler JL. And that's not even counting repairs to these rigs.

The irony to this is to get the most electric miles you have to do lots of small trip driving across lots of trips, each between power charges.

Sure--there's the greenness of it, and such calculations will vary with the cost of gasoline/diesel, but even in this rarest of situations where you are already produce your own excess power beyond that needed, it may still take a while to justify the cost difference on dollars alone.

..and that's before a lift kit or towing stuff, which are apt to drain the batteries in even less miles than the stock rig.

I'm not against manufacturers being forced to adopt entry level electric solutions, but it strikes me as maybe a hard case to make to the consumer in $ outlay alone.

If people know better I'd love to be told otherwise, as if my assumptions are wrong, the environment wins more.

;)On this plus side, the rig probably won't have an ESS system for those who hate ESS.
short answer is we don’t know. My guess is the break even point is 80,000 miles or more. But we need to see more numbers to confirm.
 

Bren

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In one of the original videos linked to this thread, the commentator compared the Pacifica PHEV, which is fully loaded with creature comforts he claimed, to a fully loaded ICE Pacifica and claimed about a $6K purchase price difference.

From a purely mathematical exercise, in ideal conditions where you have excess home produced solar power over that you take from the utility in a "net metering state" (your utility bill is $0) I STILL wonder how many (electric) miles you'd have to drive with a PHEV Wrangler JL to reach a break even $ point over the up front purchase price difference to a comparably feature rich purely ICE Wrangler JL. And that's not even counting repairs to these rigs.

The irony to this is to get the most electric miles you have to do lots of small trip driving across lots of trips, each between power charges.

Sure--there's the greenness of it, and such calculations will vary with the cost of gasoline/diesel, but even in this rarest of situations where you are already produce your own excess power beyond that needed, it may still take a while to justify the cost difference on dollars alone.

..and that's before a lift kit or towing stuff, which are apt to drain the batteries in even less miles than the stock rig.

I'm not against manufacturers being forced to adopt entry level electric solutions, but it strikes me as maybe a hard case to make to the consumer in $ outlay alone.

If people know better I'd love to be told otherwise, as if my assumptions are wrong, the environment wins more.

;)On this plus side, the rig probably won't have an ESS system for those who hate ESS.
The value proposition gets better with more EV miles but we have to start somewhere. In my case, I live in an urban tower that has free EV charging for the residents. Most of my weekday driving is around the city, where 30-40 miles of EV range is plenty and every one of those miles is pure gravy. The JK gets 12mpg in city driving. That's about $100/mo saved just around town (assuming I would have purchased a similarly spec'd gas JL). I'm assuming the PHEV will be price equivalent to a similarly spec'd gas drivetrain after fed and state incentives.
 

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you arrive at a campsite with a full charge and let the batteries run your climate, lights and accessories all night long.
I arrive at a camp (implying remote) site with a cot, bag and torch. Lights are the stars; climate is the air; accessories are top shelf spirits; to consume a full charge of peace and quiet.
 

Gee-pah

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The value proposition gets better with more EV miles but we have to start somewhere. In my case, I live in an urban tower that has free EV charging for the residents. Most of my weekday driving is around the city, where 30-40 miles of EV range is plenty and every one of those miles is pure gravy. The JK gets 12mpg in city driving. That's about $100/mo saved just around town (assuming I would have purchased a similarly spec'd gas JL). I'm assuming the PHEV will be price equivalent to a similarly spec'd gas drivetrain after fed and state incentives.
May your charging remain free, and at least equally as important as more people adopt electric vehicles: accessible. :)
 
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Bitching about solar paying you back is like bitching about Wrangler MPG... COMPLETELY missing the point.
Now that a diesel gets 29 mpg highway, is it?
 
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Got on highway to day, driving along about 4 miles from previous on ramp, come up upon a Tesla doing about 50mph, take a look, all windows including side and back are are all fogged/frosted up.

Confirms what I expected, climate control and defrost either suck, or said driver is hyper mileing to extend the battery and hence power the defrost and freeze their ass while driving in cold climate, no thanks elon!
Only the biggest Tesla fan boys will pretend that EVs are currently viable for folks who deal with extremely cold weather for more than a month a year.

Owner of both a Tesla and a JK here. The air con in the Tesla is perfectly fine. The car preheats itself too, so it's climate controlled when I get in it.

It's hard for people to understand this point until you've lived with one, but I think about "range" in my Wrangler way more than my Tesla. The Tesla leaves my garage with ~280 miles of charge every day (I top it up to about 80% battery each night). It's very rare that I drive more than that in a day. As I result I only go out of my way to "fuel" that car maybe once every other month. The only times I ever think about range are on 280+ mile road trips, and for those there are plenty of Superchargers along my routes. For example I run from Boston to Montreal pretty often, and I have 5 different opportunities to supercharge on that drive. A 15 minute charge will give me plenty to get there with 150 miles to spare. I'll spend 15 minutes just taking a leak and grabbing a snack.

Meanwhile in the Wrangler, I'm getting 12mpg around town so I have to gas it up about once per week. My trip computer reads 190 miles of "range" on a full tank at that mileage. I find myself getting mildly annoyed each time the fuel light comes on, because I'm just not used to going out of my way to grab fuel that much anymore.

My main point is, there is no range anxiety in the Tesla. If that guy was hyper-miling he was doing it because some people consider it a game. They're super easy to live with.
Some people don't have room for 2 or more cars and when you only have 1 car, an EV is a huge pain in the ass if you want to road trip, have a long commute, or just drive a lot - and of course cold weather will dramatically increase those issues. Why? Charging stations are few and far between while gas stations are on damn near every corner.
 

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I've also been looking into the Tesla roof even though it's prohibitively expensive the long term advantage is high. Plus up here conventional shingles aren't really standing up to the type of weather we have been having lately. I don't own an EV yet but was seriously considering one until Doug Ford killed the rebates up here.

One point I haven't come across is trains, they are an example of hybrid technology, they are driven by electric motors. Yup electric and have been for decades, the diesel motor is just the generator. So wouldn't the next logical step be to build a Jeep with this type of setup bypassing a conventional drivetrain and just have 4 corner electric motors driven by a small diesel generator with a bank of batteries.

Also design the system so that the diesel motor can also be used to power your home in the event of a failure of the power grid or perhaps to top up a solar setup when needed. I seem to recall when the Nissan Leaf was introduced one of the selling points was that you could hook up your home in the event of a power failure and run off the cars battery.

I already have 200 amp service in my home and added 240v run out to the garage so that I can hook up my 10k generator in the event of a prolonged power outage. It would be easy to hook up a charging station from this so also puzzled as to why it would cost too much other than labour charge if you had to have one installed. Biggest headache after the fact would be to drill through a wall and run the wiring required, otherwise?

If Jeep ever made something along the lines of what I proposed I'd buy one.
 

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If Jeep ever made something along the lines of what I proposed I'd buy one.
You would need to buy FCJ itself. I can't even get a base 2 door Rubicon build out of them without accepting all the nonsense add-ons THEY want to sell. Out of the market for now. Will see what FMC offers if they ever get off their ... regarding the Bronco.
 

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You would need to buy FCJ itself. I can't even get a base 2 door Rubicon build out of them without accepting all the nonsense add-ons THEY want to sell. Out of the market for now. Will see what FMC offers if they ever get off their ... regarding the Bronco.
I guess I'm getting old so a loaded Rubicon would work for me but fully understand what you say. All car manufacturers load up their hot selling rigs with expensive options that you are forced to buy but in my case I can't think of anything on a loaded Rubi I wouldn't have ordered anyway. Er well other than the hideous wheel upgrade.

Heated seats and steering wheel are a nice option up here in the winter, yeah in the old days I would just let the car warm up or plug in the block heater but what the heck a toasty seat is kind of nice. The big Nav/radio is quite nice, the ex has one in her Rebel and it is something I would opt for although I don't find the sat radio worth it. A lot of the things on it I would have added anyway especially an upgraded audio system.

Sure there would be some big tooling costs though the flip side is you could eliminate the driveshaft tunnel as there would be none. Powerplant would be more compact as it would just be the motor with generator attached. Batteries could be built into the floor and would lower the centre of gravity. Guess the wild card would be the electric motor(s) at each wheel and the electronics needed to operate them. Granted you could have some pretty serious traction control with this setup as each wheel could be individually powered and controlled.

But the reality is, I highly doubt they would do this as they are likely stuck in old school thinking.
 

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but in my case I can't think of anything on a loaded Rubi I wouldn't have ordered anyway.
I come from a world where breakdowns occur in REMOTE areas (40+miles from the next vehicle) Start-run failures caused by cascading layers of unnecessary, inaccessible electronics WILL inevitably shut one down without hope for a field fix to get out. It's called shock, vibration, water crossings, tilt, twist, climb, descent, heat, cold, etc. all of which electronic crap doesn't tolerate. Maximum chance for recovery is with simplicity in machine. Been there done that and I bet I'm older than you LOL! Must have low manual gears and lockers where I go; heater, spare tire, 48" jack and tools. I'm not in the market for a Euro street slut.
 

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I come from a world where breakdowns occur in REMOTE areas (40+miles from the next vehicle) Start-run failures caused by cascading layers of unnecessary, inaccessible electronics WILL inevitably shut one down without hope for a field fix to get out. It's called shock, vibration, water crossings, tilt, twist, climb, descent, heat, cold, etc. all of which electronic crap doesn't tolerate. Maximum chance for recovery is with simplicity in machine. Been there done that and I bet I'm older than you LOL! Must have low manual gears and lockers where I go; heater, spare tire, 48" jack and tools. I'm not in the market for a Euro street slut.
You might just be older than me if you are 70+....

Otherwise I've also been there and done that and honestly I don't want to any more. Picking up a 100+ lb wheel and tire, nope, I just have plugs and a compressor. I do have tools in each vehicle but any new vehicle is going to be a real PITA to fix if something goes kaput and even in a stripped JL there is still enough electronics that could go south to cripple it out in the middle of nowhere so I really don't think a fully loaded Rubi will be much different as dead heated seats aren't exactly going to strand you out in the middle of nowhere. Plus to even trouble shoot any new vehicle you are going to need at bare minimum a code reader or better still a more advanced scan tool in order to read and potentially diagnose and hopefully reset a code that had put everything into limp mode. If your ECM or BCM craps you are still screwed regardless of how many other electronic gizmos you have installed.

You did notice that photo with my handle, the CJ7, nice simple and probably just as prone to failure although in completely different ways. I pack lots of fuses as the fuse on the fuel level gauge likes to blow and that kills the engine. Just one of the wonders of old tech I suppose, I also have a high lift jack, come along, tow and tree straps along with spare plugs, and distributor as well as ignition coil in a box behind the back seat. Also a nice assortment of radio gear since cell service where I wind up usually doesn't exist granted a CAA tow is also out of the question.

As far as shock etc, etc, etc well you know those same conditions can cripple pretty much any vehicle depending on how built it is and how crazy/experienced the driver is. I have a feeling you are younger than me, once you hit a certain age your body just can't deal with the stuff you did when you were a lot younger like when you were 40......
 

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You might just be older than me if you are 70+....
Appreciate your thoughtful reply...seems like you'd be fun to wheel with.

I'm older, but stubborn. Lost the Cherokee last Aug. Reasonable settlement after fight. The principle is factory selling me what they want to sell rather than sticking to what they list on their package codes plus options. A bit like making a deal in the middle east. I'll keep hunting around till I really do feel too old. My dear older still wife of 50 years fully supports my efforts. Cheers.

BTW: nice CJ!
 

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