Plan on paying the dealership a lot more - no tuners anytime soon

[guarnibl]

My understanding was this was already broken? Guess we'll all see if that's true at EJS... but I thought ECU was already cracked as of last week.

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[Riviera]

OP doesn't have a clue how dealer structure works. It doesn't "cost" the dealership to make changes to build codes (tire sizes, etc). What I mean is, the dealership is an independent franchisee and they can change build codes, tire sizes etc. within certain parameters. Now if you're crying because the mechanic should be doing the labor for free, you really aren't being reasonable.

 

[AZCrawl]

OP doesn't have a clue how dealer structure works. It doesn't "cost" the dealership to make changes to build codes (tire sizes, etc). What I mean is, the dealership is an independent franchisee and they can change build codes, tire sizes etc. within certain parameters. Now if you're crying because the mechanic should be doing the labor for free, you really aren't being reasonable.

True, but the "work" won't justify $125!

 

[BillyHW]

Aren't their laws that prevent automakers from locking out independent repair shops from doing work on their vehicles?

 

[NFRs2000NYC]

Cmon guys, it's computers. It can probably be hacked by a 15 year old in under an hour. I have no doubt the programmers will be out in a few months.

 

[offcamber]

This presumes that Jeep gets a taste of what the dealers charge customers for such reprogramming. That doesn't ring true for me.

From what I was told, changes made require a connection to FCA servers to authenticate any change. FCA bills the dealer for these transactions a certain rate. The dealer can charge what they want over that.

 

[offcamber]

OP doesn't have a clue how dealer structure works. It doesn't "cost" the dealership to make changes to build codes (tire sizes, etc). What I mean is, the dealership is an independent franchisee and they can change build codes, tire sizes etc. within certain parameters. Now if you're crying because the mechanic should be doing the labor for free, you really aren't being reasonable.

Your right, I don't know shit about how the dealer does things. But the guy I was talking to, he works on Jeeps and just finished going through training on the Security Gate Module system that the 2018's use. Prior to this, he had said, "don't worry, when you put your 37's on, bring it up to me and I'll take care of the speedo calibration and anything else. Afterwards, he said that on the new system, he can't do it for free because it isn't like the "old system". You have to go through the Witech 2 system tool which uses a public and private key authentication system. Without connecting to FCA's servers, no changes can be made. It's apparently a huge pain in the arse because the servers go down frequently and when they are down, technicians can't make any changes all they can do is read from the tool. To write to the vehicles system, you have to be able to authenticate the transaction with FCA.

A little research shows:
"The SGW module is a Cyber Security hardware device to stop unwanted access and threats to the Controller Area Networks (CAN’s) for the vehicle. The gateway does not contain any drivers, and therefore does not directly operate or control any vehicle components.
The complexity of in‐vehicle networking has led to the development of a variety of bus standards and protocols that are specific to their application domains. The SGW module serves as the information bridge between these communication domains and the diagnostic scantool. Serving also as the vehicle’s central interface for diagnostics and OEM flashing, hardware security features prevent unauthorized network access." "operation" "The Security Gateway (SGW) module is located in the Controller Area Network (CAN) architecture between the Data Link Connector (DLC), Radio Receiver Module (RRM) and Body Control Module (BCM). The main function is to gate messages from one bus to another. It will provide security against certain types of attacks and threats from the service tool or RRM bus to the vehicle. The module gates messages within the CAN-C bus, or the CAN-BH bus. The module contains up to eight dual wire CAN channels that comply with CAN-FD (the module does NOT support partial networking functionality). The module is a frame gateway, it does not provide signal gateway functionality. With the gating there are several criteria that must be met, that is to say the message must be on the allowed list from the source bus. The SGW module prevents threats to the bus systems through the DLC. A secure connection must be present to allow authentication between the SGW module and the diagnostic scantool. The SGW module will then allow the radio to turn ON via the system data bus"

Aftermarket?. "No clearing codes, no actuators, nothing but read service. There are no tools that work for 2018 vehicles besides WiTech2. -IF- any future tool works, it will have to tunnel into the Chrysler system and ask for a auth-package to relay on to the vehicle, that system does not yet exist and they won't let anyone but your SnapOn types into it and then it'll be limited to only the things a SnapOn tool is allowed to do."

 

[Cwu21]

If what you say is true, it sounds that FCA has found their revenue stream...

First they would have any dealer charges

Second They could Charge companies like SC,BD, Banks.....etc a nice fee for code and access to their public/private keys plus could also charge a royalty per tuner.

 

[Carlton_Banks]

If this is true, it is interesting because dealership tools only allow to calculate up to a 35 inch tire...

Dynatrac has built a JLU on 42s and 5.38 gears so I tend to think there is some way to calculate. The Jeep wouldn't move without recalculation.

 

[Jeepsterfreak]

Will this also affect tuning the new 2.0 Turbo?

 

[TXRubicon]

This is what most manufacturers have been doing service wise for the last 7-8 years. FCA is just getting up to speed. This isn't really anything new or some sort of conspiracy to extort more money out of you.

 

[offcamber]

If this is true, it is interesting because dealership tools only allow to calculate up to a 35 inch tire...

Dynatrac has built a JLU on 42s and 5.38 gears so I tend to think there is some way to calculate. The Jeep wouldn't move without recalculation.

Not true. A guy in our club lifted a JL and put 37's on it at his dealership and he was able to set the tire size to 37".

 

[offcamber]

This is what most manufacturers have been doing service wise for the last 7-8 years. FCA is just getting up to speed. This isn't really anything new or some sort of conspiracy to extort more money out of you.

This actually IS something completely new. FCA is the first to roll out an authentication based two key system and GM followed right after...

 

[TXRubicon]

Sorry, that's not what I was specifically referring to. The whole "Phone home" thing is what I meant. To your point though, firewalled and two key systems will be pretty common place soon since they are likely sourced from Bosch or Siemens.

This actually IS something completely new. FCA is the first to roll out an authentication based two key system and GM followed right after...

 

[offcamber]

Sorry, that's not what I was specifically referring to. The whole "Phone home" thing is what I meant. To your point though, firewalled and two key systems will be pretty common place soon since they are likely sourced from Bosch or Siemens.

This is supposedly the "Level 3" of the system with "Level 4" coming in the 2019 model year and "Level 5" with 2021. Level 3 might get cracked, but Level 4 and up are going to be so costly to crack that it's likely to be cost prohibitive.

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