Owners Manual and DPF?

[GtX]

This is what I was originally looking for:

https://www.discosportforums.co.uk/download/file.php?id=9522&sid=360a64fb825c6b24be1efa5ebe894b0e

That reference seems to communicate that oil dilution is linked to failed regen cycles and the probability of a failed regen is at least partially dependent on the driving habits of the owner and the distance of the heat source (engine) from the DPF. Or did I misunderstand the document?

Do you know, or are you inferring, the 3.0L diesel in the Wrangler is more like the JLR D8 architecture than the D7a architecture? The former being identified as likely to suffer from oil dilution from low speed, short duration cycles and the later being minimally or not affected.

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[2020 Diesel JL]

The fuel is injected post combustion. This raises exhaust gas temperatures. The increased EGT burns off the soot in the DPF. Overfuelling raises EGTs. This is basically an active 'regen'.

As above, the regen is done by adding extra diesel into the cumbustion process raising EGTs. The problem is some of this diesel ends up not being burnt and coats the cylinder walls making its way into the sump diluting the engine oil.

This can and does happen. If you're using a diesel like a diesel should with long prolonged periods of operation and higher load conditions, most of this will evaporate off and not cause an issue. But it does need to be taken into account with oil change intervals.

You got most of it just forgot what stroke this happens.

 

[GARRIGA]

This is what I was originally looking for:

https://www.discosportforums.co.uk/download/file.php?id=9522&sid=360a64fb825c6b24be1efa5ebe894b0e

This answers one concern for me. The fact I might end my journey before regen has completed because I wasn’t aware regen had commenced. This raises more concerns for my style of driving, unfortunately.

 

[Compression-Ignition]

But for the fact that not everyone may be able to easily discern when it is in regen. I'm thinking about trying a Scangauge II.

I just ordered one of these. I called them up to see if it would be compatible and the gal I talked to said I needed a specific firmware version (latest?). Anyhow instead of running down to Autozone and getting one I ordered from them directly https://www.scangauge.com/shop/scangaugeii/
I'll update later letting everyone know if it will do what we need. Here are some screens hots of what it is supposed to monitor. I let the gal know that the engine is not exactly the same and the tuning might be different , and I questioned whether or not it would work. She said they would send out a data logger for me to run and they'd take care of it. Sounds promising and I'm looking forward to being able to KNOW FOR A FACT what the regen (and related) status is.

Edit: I worded the above funny. They aren't sending me a datalogger now, she said if I had issues with the Scangauge's functionality they would send a datalogger.

 

[GARRIGA]

I want a dummy button that says “Regen On”. Keep It Simple.

 

[Compression-Ignition]

I want a dummy button that says “Regen On”. Keep It Simple.

The Scangauge II should do that. It's just beyond stupid that all of these manufacturers don't include regen status as a gauge/display item that the end user has easy access to from the get go.

 

[BuffaloBill]

The Scangauge II should do that. It's just beyond stupid that all of these manufacturers don't include regen status as a gauge/display item that the end user has easy access to from the get go.

I agree 1000%. I’ve said it before. I can imagine it’s some marketing person who believes they’ll lose sales to people for fear it will come across as something to be concerned about or something. I think most of us Jeep people would not view it that way, and would really appreciate having regen indication. I admit to being an engineer, but who the heck wouldn’t want that?

 

[GARRIGA]

Last I’d want happen is turning the vehicle off before regen ended.

 

[2020 Diesel JL]

I ordered the Banks iDash DataMonster and it came in yesterday. I will play with it this weekend and see what I think. I am just looking for the Regen status, and DPF pressure.

 

[2020 Diesel JL]

The problem I've found in my experience with diesel and DPFs is that they can mask issues, and you end up with a downward spiral as things escalate.

E.g. turbo seals start leaking a small amount of oil into the intake. This would usually be evident by some blue smoke on a normal car. With a DPF, it catches the excess emissions, you see no smoke and not aware of an issue. The DPF then clogs as the ash from burnt oil wont burn off during a regen. I've seen people endlessly chasing DPF issues when caused by something else entirely.

Hopefully knowledge of these emissions devices has caught up, and people know how to diagnose properly, especially over here in the US/Canada where diesel isn't the norm.

I don't think there is an oil made for everyday use that can handle 30,000 rpm turbo shut downs. The turbo will still be working hard pushing around a 5k truck in any situation but down hill. If the turbo is spinning at 15,00 rpms instead I dont think its slow enough to go without oil day after day.

 

[2020 Diesel JL]

That reference seems to communicate that oil dilution is linked to failed regen cycles and the probability of a failed regen is at least partially dependent on the driving habits of the owner and the distance of the heat source (engine) from the DPF. Or did I misunderstand the document?

Do you know, or are you inferring, the 3.0L diesel in the Wrangler is more like the JLR D8 architecture than the D7a architecture? The former being identified as likely to suffer from oil dilution from low speed, short duration cycles and the later being minimally or not affected.

I have posted the following on a few threads and think it needs to be here also. Oil dilution is an issue with the 3.0.


We need to stop the fuel wash-down story. It's the second time I have seen it stated in the last 24 hours on this forum and to member that do not know any better it would be concerning, rightfully so.. It is not a concern in the 3.0 EcoDiesel and most new diesels in general . It has been proven not to be a problem by the EPA.
These are the facts from a EPA and the City of Niagara Falls Water Board study that was done in Jan 2020 when they were looking to order their new fleet of trucks. I know the facts because I supplied 5 oil samples from my fleet of 9 Ram trucks with 6.7's from 2017's to 2020's to them. They wanted to go back to diesels because of the cost of engine replacements with their current gas fleet they have experienced. The Ford 6.0 and 6.4 scared many municipalities into gas trucks years ago. I have a good friend that is a supervisor for the City of Niagara Falls Water Board was part of the study for both the 6.7L and 3.0L Ram truck engines. One report they received back was oil analyses. The newly designed aftertreatment system combined with the new coated pistons and skits along with new designed piston rings has lowered fuel migration to between 0% and .02% in 17 samples with the average coming in at .0001% There are many generic articles out there but they are not facts to the 3.0 EcoDiesel.
I disagree with the ESS being a good thing for ANY turbo engine. Turbo shafts spin up to 300,000 rpm and will not hold up to the oil supply being shut off when the ESS shuts down the engine every time it stops. The only reason for the ESS is to help fuel economy numbers. If you have no issue with putting in a new turbo every few years leave it on. I am sure the thousands of $ a new turbo will cost plus installed will make you wish you spent the extra $20 in fuel.

Yes the Tazer will shut the ESS off. It will allow the last ESS setting to be remembered when restarting the engine. If you shut it off and never turn it back on it will stay off.

 

[GtX]

I have posted the following on a few threads and think it needs to be here also. Oil dilution is an issue with the 3.0.


We need to stop the fuel wash-down story. It's the second time I have seen it stated in the last 24 hours on this forum and to member that do not know any better it would be concerning, rightfully so.. It is not a concern in the 3.0 EcoDiesel and most new diesels in general . It has been proven not to be a problem by the EPA.
These are the facts from a EPA and the City of Niagara Falls Water Board study that was done in Jan 2020 when they were looking to order their new fleet of trucks. I know the facts because I supplied 5 oil samples from my fleet of 9 Ram trucks with 6.7's from 2017's to 2020's to them. They wanted to go back to diesels because of the cost of engine replacements with their current gas fleet they have experienced. The Ford 6.0 and 6.4 scared many municipalities into gas trucks years ago. I have a good friend that is a supervisor for the City of Niagara Falls Water Board was part of the study for both the 6.7L and 3.0L Ram truck engines. One report they received back was oil analyses. The newly designed aftertreatment system combined with the new coated pistons and skits along with new designed piston rings has lowered fuel migration to between 0% and .02% in 17 samples with the average coming in at .0001% There are many generic articles out there but they are not facts to the 3.0 EcoDiesel.
I disagree with the ESS being a good thing for ANY turbo engine. Turbo shafts spin up to 300,000 rpm and will not hold up to the oil supply being shut off when the ESS shuts down the engine every time it stops. The only reason for the ESS is to help fuel economy numbers. If you have no issue with putting in a new turbo every few years leave it on. I am sure the thousands of $ a new turbo will cost plus installed will make you wish you spent the extra $20 in fuel.

Yes the Tazer will shut the ESS off. It will allow the last ESS setting to be remembered when restarting the engine. If you shut it off and never turn it back on it will stay off.

Thanks, but my response/question wasn't directed to you or about your information. It was specifically to @aros-can and the inference they made between the Jaguar platforms and the Wrangler platform.

 

[aros-can]

Thanks, but my response/question wasn't directed to you or about your information. It was specifically to @aros-can and the inference they made between the Jaguar platforms and the Wrangler platform.

Sorry, no link. It was more trying to justify comments made that there was no possible link between DPFs and diesel/oil dilution. Not saying this engine is anymore prone to it, just it is a potential issue with DPF equipped vehicles.

 

[Capricorn]

This.

Although, I don't think its an issue of no lubrication. I have no issue using stop start on my V6 JL, everything is coated in an oil film and bearings are designed for stop start applications now.

The issue is that that oil in the turbo bearings will get very hot very quickly when the oil supply stops in a stop/start cycle. That little bit of oil will get cooked, and you'll increase the chances of sludge etc. Granted, modern oils are designed for this kind of abuse now, but couple that with diesel/oil dilution due to the DPF regens, I think avoiding stop starts in that kind of situation gives it the best long term chance. If you're just pottering around town, then I doubt its an issue. Its when it comes to a stop immediately after some 'spirited' driving.

Its always good practice to idle a diesel for a minute initially and before shutting off if driven hard. I've always just taken my seatbelt off, found my phone etc. then shut off and jumped out. I read somewhere that VM Motiri actually recommend a 2 minute idle at start up and shut down for their engines (of which the ecodiesel is).

I understand the idle before shutdown and the Jeep's Diesel supplement on page 20 also recommends that. But what is the reason for a minute or two idle at start? I usually wait till the idle RPM comes down which is 30-50 seconds max.

 

[Compression-Ignition]

I just ordered one of these. I called them up to see if it would be compatible and the gal I talked to said I needed a specific firmware version (latest?). Anyhow instead of running down to Autozone and getting one I ordered from them directly https://www.scangauge.com/shop/scangaugeii/
I'll update later letting everyone know if it will do what we need. Here are some screens hots of what it is supposed to monitor. I let the gal know that the engine is not exactly the same and the tuning might be different , and I questioned whether or not it would work. She said they would send out a data logger for me to run and they'd take care of it. Sounds promising and I'm looking forward to being able to KNOW FOR A FACT what the regen (and related) status is.

Edit: I worded the above funny. They aren't sending me a datalogger now, she said if I had issues with the Scangauge's functionality they would send a datalogger.

Seems to all be working as it should. I guess I won't know for sure until I see a regen in progress and a coinciding mileage nose dive.

Got the screen showing:

STM "soot mass load" (%)
RGN "regeneration active" (on/off)
DSR "distance since last regeneration" (miles)
TNR "total number of started regenerations" (count)


Their window mount blows. Might start a thread about this later if I think more needs to be shared. Overall I'm just happy to have a way to monitor regen status. We'll see if this avenue was worth the cost. I paid $170 from the source to make sure I got the latest and greatest, but these normally go for $140ish. Bluetooth would be nice, but the apps I've seen always seem to be missing at least one if not several pids you'd like to monitor. YMMV

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