Overheating issues 2023 JL

[Willys41]

So you’re just going to ignore the fact that you’re wrong about this? The Maserati has a HIGHER temp thermostat. Not lower.

This is what I saw on the Maserati forum. Over and over again
. The normal operating temperature of the engine is 195 degrees Fahrenheit

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[Willys41]

Hopefully you realize that the video says nothing about any of that. It merely shows the commonality between the two. You seem to be using speculation while implying that the video says something that it very much does not.

Exactly
They are basically the same motor but with different cooling and oil specs
Why is that. Do you have an answer
Between the two I would rather run with the Maserati specs

 

[BDinTX]

I'm not an expert on any of this. I've observed mine running at 239* F and it made me uncomfortable enough to reach out to the oil manufacturer. They said it seemed a little warm and told me the oil I use can handle temps up to 250* F.

I'm not sure an altered fan controller is the right answer though. If the engine is designed to run in the 230'ish range, running the fan faster and sooner with a spoofing device seems like it would just make the computer try harder to bring the engine up to, what it thinks are normal operating temps. The end result may be a fan that dies prematurely.

The above seems a little bit like turning the AC on upstairs but leaving the heat on downstairs and the two units fighting each other.

I'd prefer to see something from Tazer, JScan, or similar that tells the computer a new, lower operating temperature. That would probably still have downstream consequences like @mwilk012 was describing. I also absolutely believe these higher temps are due to emissions requirements. A lot of the new specs for oil seem to be in support of modern emissions and temperature requirements.

 

[Willys41]

I'm not an expert on any of this. I've observed mine running at 239* F and it made me uncomfortable enough to reach out to the oil manufacturer. They said it seemed a little warm and told me the oil I use can handle temps up to 250* F.

I'm not sure an altered fan controller is the right answer though. If the engine is designed to run in the 230'ish range, running the fan faster and sooner with a spoofing device seems like it would just make the computer try harder to bring the engine up to, what it thinks are normal operating temps. The end result may be a fan that dies prematurely.

The above seems a little bit like turning the AC on upstairs but leaving the heat on downstairs and the two units fighting each other.

I'd prefer to see something from Tazer, JScan, or similar that tells the computer a new, lower operating temperature. That would probably still have downstream consequences like @mwilk012 was describing. I also absolutely believe these higher temps are due to emissions requirements. A lot of the new specs for oil seem to be in support of modern emissions and temperature requirements.

239 is HOT any way you look at it
If mine hit 239 I would pull over and let it cool down

 

[jav_eee]

If the engine is designed to run in the 230'ish range, running the fan faster and sooner with a spoofing device seems like it would just make the computer try harder to bring the engine up to, what it thinks are normal operating temps.

I haven’t read every section but the few parts I have read cite operating temp as “above 180°F” whatever that means.

 

[BDinTX]

Oh sorry, I forgot to mention I'm talking about my diesel, live in Texas, and almost have a strong cross-wind. I have a bad memory but I'm pretty sure the service advisor said normal is around 230* but "Texas normal" is 235*. You'd think that would be something you could find in the manual...

 

[SCJeeps]

Wow this thread got sporty pretty quick.

While these higher temps may be deemed “acceptable” it is an engineering compromise due to packaging of the cooling system itself. This is evident by the work they did when developing the Gladiator to improve airflow. It is also evident is usage of the engine in other platforms. Example: my wife’s 23 Grand Cherokee with the 3.6 normally runs 199-201 , It just seems to sit there no matter how hard I work it. I have done this while monitoring the temp in the Evic. What is different? I’m guessing the thermostat is the same as the JL and the only difference is the radiator, grill, and controls.

This only leaves a few knobs to turn to keep temps down.

- Remove upstream obstructions to airflow ( I.e grill insert). This allows more CFM to flow across the radiator. It is a very simple system and the calculations are fairly basic for heat removal for air over water, so adjusting flow in the system is critical. This also means the fan can theoretically become more efficient by removing things that restrict flow.
- Adjust the fan controls to force more airflow across the radiator. This still is doing the same thing as #1 by simply forcing more air across the radiator. Think air velocity and volume.

- Install a larger or more efficient radiator. Again this will depend upon the fan controller strategy and restrictions to move air across the radiator.

The cooling system is still a simple mechanical system that still utilizes a mechanical thermostat. There are no electronic controls for the engine to try to reach a specific level other than the fan controller. There is a separate system for the transmission fluid for it to try to reach optimal temps for efficiency and to heat it up as quickly as possible.

It is my experience that temperatures are better kept lower for longevity of the engine. We know this from decades of experience working on vehicles. This “fleet” experience is invaluable. While engineering has done countless hours of duty cycle testing to validate the system as given to the consumer there are still targets and compromises that get taken. Maybe the target for this vehicle is 200k but in another configuration it is capable to 300k . I would rather try to reduce temps as they will damage the engine over time depending upon usage.

 

[Willys41]

I am tired of hearing its ok to run with temp up to this or that and almost max temps or what I would call the bad zone
I prefer to keep my temps in the good zone below the bad zone or what I would call almost over heated
That's just common sense

 

[azjl#3]

I'm not an expert on any of this. I've observed mine running at 239* F and it made me uncomfortable enough to reach out to the oil manufacturer. They said it seemed a little warm and told me the oil I use can handle temps up to 250* F.

I'm not sure an altered fan controller is the right answer though. If the engine is designed to run in the 230'ish range, running the fan faster and sooner with a spoofing device seems like it would just make the computer try harder to bring the engine up to, what it thinks are normal operating temps. The end result may be a fan that dies prematurely.

The above seems a little bit like turning the AC on upstairs but leaving the heat on downstairs and the two units fighting each other.

I'd prefer to see something from Tazer, JScan, or similar that tells the computer a new, lower operating temperature. That would probably still have downstream consequences like @mwilk012 was describing. I also absolutely believe these higher temps are due to emissions requirements. A lot of the new specs for oil seem to be in support of modern emissions and temperature requirements.

THIS^^^

Unintended consequences. One, most serious in my mind, automatically void whatever powertrain warranty on the engine, this would be a no brainer for dealers to deny any work.

Second, less consequential, the above noted computer not working with the fan. I don't for a second think the computer tries to run the engine at 230, more like 210-225. But, having the fan on below full operating temp, trying to game the heat load, is just injecting other problems, efficiency, emissions, others.

Look, I think the motor running 210 is perfect, but I also don't think the motor hitting 230 is a need to try and change the program. Monitor the temp? Yep, maybe take a few rpm off the table with the throttle.

 

[Willys41]

Wow this thread got sporty pretty quick.

While these higher temps may be deemed “acceptable” it is an engineering compromise due to packaging of the cooling system itself. This is evident by the work they did when developing the Gladiator to improve airflow. It is also evident is usage of the engine in other platforms. Example: my wife’s 23 Grand Cherokee with the 3.6 normally runs 199-201 , It just seems to sit there no matter how hard I work it. I have done this while monitoring the temp in the Evic. What is different? I’m guessing the thermostat is the same as the JL and the only difference is the radiator, grill, and controls.

This only leaves a few knobs to turn to keep temps down.

- Remove upstream obstructions to airflow ( I.e grill insert). This allows more CFM to flow across the radiator. It is a very simple system and the calculations are fairly basic for heat removal for air over water, so adjusting flow in the system is critical. This also means the fan can theoretically become more efficient by removing things that restrict flow.
- Adjust the fan controls to force more airflow across the radiator. This still is doing the same thing as #1 by simply forcing more air across the radiator. Think air velocity and volume.

- Install a larger or more efficient radiator. Again this will depend upon the fan controller strategy and restrictions to move air across the radiator.

The cooling system is still a simple mechanical system that still utilizes a mechanical thermostat. There are no electronic controls for the engine to try to reach a specific level other than the fan controller. There is a separate system for the transmission fluid for it to try to reach optimal temps for efficiency and to heat it up as quickly as possible.

It is my experience that temperatures are better kept lower for longevity of the engine. We know this from decades of experience working on vehicles. This “fleet” experience is invaluable. While engineering has done countless hours of duty cycle testing to validate the system as given to the consumer there are still targets and compromises that get taken. Maybe the target for this vehicle is 200k but in another configuration it is capable to 300k . I would rather try to reduce temps as they will damage the engine over time depending upon usage.

I agree with you 100%

 

[stumblinhorse]

Operating temps being ridiculous is the number 1 reason I have a 392…. I saw 230s all time in my 3.6. The last straw was 230’s with outside air temp -9°F. Traded it for a 392. Never really see coolant over 206° in the 392. Oil temps can get up in the 230-240’s. But that is totally ok with me.

 

[Willys41]

THIS^^^

Unintended consequences. One, most serious in my mind, automatically void whatever powertrain warranty on the engine, this would be a no brainer for dealers to deny any work.

Second, less consequential, the above noted computer not working with the fan. I don't for a second think the computer tries to run the engine at 230, more like 210-225. But, having the fan on below full operating temp, trying to game the heat load, is just injecting other problems, efficiency, emissions, others.

Look, I think the motor running 210 is perfect, but I also don't think the motor hitting 230 is a need to try and change the program. Monitor the temp? Yep, maybe take a few rpm off the table with the throttle.

We are NOT talking about 230 degrees
We are seeing 235 to 240 degrees on our modified jeep and some have gone into limp mode
Warranty. What warranty. There is NO way in hell they are going to warranty any thing on my jeep with all my mods

 

[mwilk012]

This is what I saw on the Maserati forum. Over and over again
. The normal operating temperature of the engine is 195 degrees Fahrenheit

It doesn’t matter what you read on a forum. The technical specification for the operating temperature is 95 degrees Celsius. 5C higher than the pentastar engine. This is a bad comparison and flat misinformation.

 

[Willys41]

It doesn’t matter what you read on a forum. The technical specification for the operating temperature is 95 degrees Celsius. 5C higher than the pentastar engine. This is a bad comparison and flat misinformation.

You are right about the thermostat however the Maserati 3.0 is NOT running temps in the 235 to 240 range Like what we are seeing on the Wrangler and Gladiator 3.6 / 2.0 /3.0
Others have stated here that there 3.6 in there vans and trucks run about 195 to 200 degrees
Jeep knows it and I know it and I have chosen to correct it
My 3.6 jeep runs on average 195 to 200 and under extreme load will hit 212
I am happy with that

 

[HeavyMetalFox]

This is the way the jeep Wrangler and Gladiator cooling system works
The thermostat starts to open at 190 degrees and is fully open at 212 degrees
The radiator fan comes on at about 15% fan speed at 221 and 75% at 231 degrees
This has been a ongoing concern with a lot of people with modified jeep with large tires low gearing and pulling heavy loads Like me
I tried a lot of different solution including grills / larger radiator / Large pusher fan without ANY results in lowering coolant temps
What I did discover is that the tight factory and Mishimoto core will NOT pass free flowing air and any speed. I got very little air to pass through the radiator with a large high volume high pressure fan mounted to the condenser. The air would hit the core and shoot out the gaps between the condenser and the rad. core
The only way is to suck air through the rad. core
6 month ago I came across the RPM Extreme JL fan controller. PROBLEM SOLVED
I now can run all day at 190 to 195. The highest temp I have seen pulling a long 10 mile hill was 212 degrees
Lower coolant temps
Lower oil temps
What supersized me was my oil catch can collects less the half the oil it did before the fan controller
I am open to answering any question you may have
Here is a link

http://www.rpmextreme.com/Product/311/Jeep-JL-PWM-FAN-CONTROLLER.aspx

This is super useful for me! Thank you! My 2020 JLUR blew a radiator in 2022 doing high way speeds up a steep mountain pass in the desert while blasting the A.C (it was so hot we were dying!). I had a very heavy Yeti cooler and camping gear in with me. I was on 35’s with a 2.5 lift in a 3.6. What shocked me most is my temp gauge never moved! I could smell the coolant and became concerned but my gauge was green until it just suddenly wasn’t! By Then I was blowing smoke and spewing rad fluid on a desert mountain with my 4 year old without cell service! I didn’t even hear the fan come on! I’m not convinced it did! It was covered under warranty but ever since when I’m wheeling hard or idling for a while I can start to smell that smell an engine makes when it’s getting hot and I don’t always hear the fan come on. Chrysler told me they checked the fan and thermostat and it was fine. People tell me it’s all in my head and it’s my fault for running the AC climbing a steep mountain while hauling camping gear ?‍. But we are talking about a brand new vehicle with very little miles. So what’s really happening? To be honest I don’t trust that temp gauge or the fan and I’ve been on a journey to find a way of assisting in keeping the rad cool.

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