Nickp01

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Must be someone else sorry. My transmission and engine are still going great at 165,000 miles. I too have benefited from the warranty when they repaired couple of minor leaks from a few gaskets. My 08 has been pretty solid.
My ‘10 is at 150k and runs like a top. What I think will hamper the later JK’s and JL’s down the road is the engine bay being such a nightmare. They are pretty stout vehicles and the engines are reliable... but they haven’t had to stand the test of time yet. Mileage is one thing but age is what takes out sensors and seals down the road. The 3.8 JK’s may be slower than shit but they are still mechanically simple, really in most ways they’re just as simple as a TJ. The 3.6/ 2.0 is a whole other animal when it comes to underneath the hood which is probably going to encourage people to gut and LS swap down the road. With the early JK’s I can either do that, or god forbid I spin a bearing I can pay $2500 for a jasper rebuilt 3.8 and a couple of 30 racks to have some buddies help me swap it out.

The JL in every other way is a pretty darn big Improvement over the JK though.





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aldo98229

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I test drove JK and JL back-to-back when JL first came out. I recall being turned off by the JL’s steering feel —or lack thereof. The only thing I could feel was the slight vibrations coming from road imperfections through the steering wheel, that was it. Even if your JL doesn’t wander all over the road, “steering feel” is still non-existent.

JL’s driver seat is significantly more cramped than JK’s, too. A bigger transmission hump results in a much narrower foot well, and in the front seats being anchored 1-inch higher, eating up precious head room. Drivers over 6’1” find their head close to the sound bar, and anyone over 6’2” with relatively long legs finds seat travel simply inadequate.

With regards to the narrow foot well, just try installing a M.O.R.E. dead pedal: it will test your body contorting abilities.

The very first JL I test drove rode terribly; when I checked the EVIC it had all tires at 45 PSI. Apparently, FCA continues to ship JLs with 45 PSI to this day.

And then there is ESS. It startled me every time for the first 3-4 months. I hated it!

Eventually we grow accustomed to these things. But if Wrangler had more direct competition, and if the 8-speed automatic weren’t so good, I wonder how many of us would have decided against putting up with these shortcomings and buying a JL at all.
 
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cOtter

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I test drove JK and JL back-to-back when JL first came out. I recall being turned off by the JL’s steering feel —or lack thereof. The only thing I could feel was the slight vibrations coming from road imperfections through the steering wheel, that was it. Even if your JL doesn’t wander all over the road, “steering feel” is still non-existent.

JL’s driver seat is significantly more cramped than JK’s, too. A bigger transmission hump results in a much narrower foot well, and in the front seats being anchored 1-inch higher, eating up precious head room. Drivers over 6’1” find their head close to the sound bar, and anyone over 6’2” with relatively long legs finds seat travel simply inadequate.

With regards to the narrow foot well, just try installing a M.O.R.E. dead pedal: it will test your body contorting abilities.

The very first JL I test drove rode terribly; when I checked the EVIC it had all tires at 45 PSI. Apparently, FCA continues to ship JLs with 45 PSI to this day.

And then there is ESS. It startled me every time for the first 3-4 months. I hated it!

Eventually we grow accustomed to these things. But if Wrangler had more direct competition, and if the 8-speed automatic weren’t so good, I wonder how many of us would have decided against putting up with these shortcomings and buying a JL at all.
Great post.

simply put..... competition drives innovation.

For that reason and that reason only I am looking forward to Bronco hitting the market. The two together will drive improvements in one another. Currently not another vehicle in the market, out of the box, capable like the wrangler.

So welcome the competition.
 

Chad1433

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I like the Barlow Jeep as the header! We've experienced many of those heat issues here in Moab, for sure! It was more annoying than anything. Mechanically, we've had few issues with our fleet, sometimes things are particular to a single vehicle. I truly believe a Jeep built on Monday isn't the best Jeep to buy! Almost all of our customers have been impressed with the performance of the JL, as well as the drivability and off-highway capability.

All the rental companies in Moab have converted to the JL and they've all been impressed as well. Collectively, our fleets have many, many trail miles on them with little if any common problems being shared between us (other than the overheating issue...and errant tourists!).
 

Jolonghorn

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I don’t have a ton to add to this conversation other than saying I love the JL. I owned a 2000 TJ Sahara and absolutely loved it - only sold it because I needed the money and had my 4th kid son it wasn’t as practical for a DD. Currently have a 2018 JLUR and just ordered and 2021 JL Willys. Love all the creature comforts in the JL as well as the superior ride and off-road capabilities. That said, my buddy owns my old TJ and I offer about twice a year to buy it back - probably at a premium to what I sold it to him for.
 

zrickety

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I went from a YJ Laredo to a JL Rubicon...I love the JL but it has it's flaws. The big threads here point them out.
It has potential, but FCA needs to stop the cost cutting and listen to owners.
Chinese parts (steering box, wheels, etc) were a terrible decision.
I have 6k miles and no electrical issues yet *knock on wood*
A service manual that doesn't require defunct Adobe Flash and Internet Explorer would be nice too.
 

Rock Hopper

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I test drove JK and JL back-to-back when JL first came out. I recall being turned off by the JL’s steering feel —or lack thereof. The only thing I could feel was the slight vibrations coming from road imperfections through the steering wheel, that was it. Even if your JL doesn’t wander all over the road, “steering feel” is still non-existent.

JL’s driver seat is significantly more cramped than JK’s, too. A bigger transmission hump results in a much narrower foot well, and in the front seats being anchored 1-inch higher, eating up precious head room. Drivers over 6’1” find their head close to the sound bar, and anyone over 6’2” with relatively long legs finds seat travel simply inadequate.

With regards to the narrow foot well, just try installing a M.O.R.E. dead pedal: it will test your body contorting abilities.

The very first JL I test drove rode terribly; when I checked the EVIC it had all tires at 45 PSI. Apparently, FCA continues to ship JLs with 45 PSI to this day.

And then there is ESS. It startled me every time for the first 3-4 months. I hated it!

Eventually we grow accustomed to these things. But if Wrangler had more direct competition, and if the 8-speed automatic weren’t so good, I wonder how many of us would have decided against putting up with these shortcomings and buying a JL at all.
I have been very blessed and have more than my share of vehicles from Ferrari's, to Broncos to Corvettes to Willys Jeepsters. I currently have 4 Jeeps (TJ, JL, Grand Cherokee and Cherokee) amongst other vehicles and I am not sure I feel like the JL's steering is really that bad. Maybe I got lucky. Then again I don't expect the JL to steer like my Porsche Cayman because I simply understand that it is centered around an off-road platform and take it for what it is. It is a blast to drive, because it is very different from my road (go fast) cars.

That being said every car has its advantages and shortcomings as there is no one size fits all.

And speaking of size, I am 6'3" and the JL fits me just fine. I have ample leg room and plenty of headroom. If someone shorter than me at 6' 1" has their head too close to the sound bar maybe their seat needs to be adjusted.

I‘m not trying to be disagreeable, I just have a different perspective based on my particular experiences and frames of reference. One thing for sure is that Jeep owners for the most part love their Jeeps.

The JL is a hell of a vehicle and I believe the OP's reason for this thread.

That is just my experience and my .02 Keep the change.
 

Zandcwhite

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I have been very blessed and have more than my share of vehicles from Ferrari's, to Broncos to Corvettes to Willys Jeepsters. I currently have 4 Jeeps (TJ, JL, Grand Cherokee and Cherokee) amongst other vehicles and I am not sure I feel like the JL's steering is really that bad. Maybe I got lucky. Then again I don't expect the JL to steer like my Porsche Cayman because I simply understand that it is centered around an off-road platform and take it for what it is. It is a blast to drive, because it is very different from my road (go fast) cars.

That being said every car has its advantages and shortcomings as there is no one size fits all.

And speaking of size, I am 6'3" and the JL fits me just fine. I have ample leg room and plenty of headroom. If someone shorter than me at 6' 1" has their head too close to the sound bar maybe their seat needs to be adjusted.

The JL is a hell of a vehicle and I believe the OP's reason for this thread.

That is just my experience and my .02 Keep the change.
I think the biggest perceived "problem" with the steering is the fact that jeeps are now mainstream enough that non-off roaders are buying them and comparing them to their former cars, 4 runners, or Tahoes. No solid axle jeep is going to handle like your previous ifs rig. No short wheelbase base rig is going to handle like your crew cab superduty. The jl handles better than any other solid axle, short wheelbase rig ever in my opinion. The jku was similar, the jl is an improvement on that. The tj, yj, cj, and Willys jeeps were progressively worse in that order. As someone who's driven and wheeled all of them hard, anyone who calls them better at anything than the jl is either talking from a theoretical idea, or has memory loss. Aside from "having less electronics", nobody can argue that any of them did anything better than a stock jl period.
 

cOtter

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I think the biggest perceived "problem" with the steering is the fact that jeeps are now mainstream enough that non-off roaders are buying them and comparing them to their former cars, 4 runners, or Tahoes. No solid axle jeep is going to handle like your previous ifs rig. No short wheelbase base rig is going to handle like your crew cab superduty. The jl handles better than any other solid axle, short wheelbase rig ever in my opinion. The jku was similar, the jl is an improvement on that. The tj, yj, cj, and Willys jeeps were progressively worse in that order. As someone who's driven and wheeled all of them hard, anyone who calls them better at anything than the jl is either talking from a theoretical idea, or has memory loss. Aside from "having less electronics", nobody can argue that any of them did anything better than a stock jl period.
You bring up a fantastic point that is often times lost. As mentioned in one of my previous posts in this thread, this is my first wrangler. But I expected going in that it would handle different than my other vehicles. For me, that is completely fine. Many folks for whatever reason have issues with how much different their wrangler rides than their other vehicles. In my mind, those folks miss the point. The wrangler rides, drives, handles, etc, etc different than other vehicles because one very simple fact. Drum role......

It is different than other vehicles.
 

Zandcwhite

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You bring up a fantastic point that is often times lost. As mentioned in one of my previous posts in this thread, this is my first wrangler. But I expected going in that it would handle different than my other vehicles. For me, that is completely fine. Many folks for whatever reason have issues with how much different their wrangler rides than their other vehicles. In my mind, those folks miss the point. The wrangler rides, drives, handles, etc, etc different than other vehicles because one very simple fact. Drum role......

It is different than other vehicles.
Exactly, but it still handles better both on and off road than prior jeeps. Is it perfect? No. Is it a sports car? Absolutely not. Is it better, both on road and off than previous wranglers, cj's, or Willys? In every way you can measure.
 

Karnak

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I could see that argument, but struggle with the frame rust. The JK frames hold up MUCH better. My Yj frame also did better. (1993 model year. Some YJ years were terrible for this.) Maybe the later TJ years are better, but every used TJ I've seen either has the issue or the issue has been repaired. I did ask a big TJ fan and local Jeep mod shop owner who is a fellow member of a Jeep club which year to look for and he said they all have the issue. He makes more money fixing frames than he does on any mods. Maybe down in the sun belt they do better?

Right now though we can't compare the possible rust issues (if any) that the JL will have because its too early to tell but I read somewhere that the upper part of the frame below the cab was thinner on the JL and I'm wondering if thats not gonna affect the longevity of the frame albeit the top part is usually less susceptible to rusting since its the bottom part where water pools that usually goes first.

but I'll agree (having had a modified TJ years ago) that this new JL is pretty incredible in stock form and I did stuff I thought I would have issues and it felt like a breeze. I think the new technology makes a big difference, the brake-lock combined with the LSD in mine are just amazing on obstacles.
 

Strommen95

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I agree a good amount of the steering complaints are because of people with unrealistic expectations. People see "steering issues" and think there's must be bad when really solid axle convertibles are going to have different characteristics. It's going to be loose relative to modern vehicles.

With that said the JL does have looser steering than the JK. Is it drastically different? No, it's not but as an enthusiast I can feel the difference. I daily drove a JK for years and am still able to drive it occasionally since my dad bought it. The difference is vague but it's there.
 
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Right now though we can't compare the possible rust issues (if any) that the JL will have because its too early to tell but I read somewhere that the upper part of the frame below the cab was thinner on the JL and I'm wondering if thats not gonna affect the longevity of the frame albeit the top part is usually less susceptible to rusting since its the bottom part where water pools that usually goes first.

but I'll agree (having had a modified TJ years ago) that this new JL is pretty incredible in stock form and I did stuff I thought I would have issues and it felt like a breeze. I think the new technology makes a big difference, the brake-lock combined with the LSD in mine are just amazing on obstacles.
There are indeed parts of the frame that are thinner but they are made with steel of higher strength, so the net difference is either the same or slightly more strength. They used many more expensive materials in the JL, including greater use of high strength steel, and of course aluminum and magnesium. There are some places, too, like axle housings, where they are thicker, too.

But you are right, time will tell. Nobody knew about the frame rust on the TJ only 3 model years in.
 

Oncorhynchus

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Wrangler straddles two market segments: those looking for off-road capability and those who treat their vehicles like a fashion accessory. The former group probably needs the latter in order for FCA to continue to justify R&D regardless of whether or not the Bronco stimulates competition in the marketplace.
 

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