Oil change frequency, dealer told me DO NOT use service required alert?

Pinky Tuscadero

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Lots of really good points here !
I knew a very honest man who owned a gas station/ garage and bought a case of Mobil 1 to sell to his customers at an upcharge - when he retired he still had the entire case and everyone who bought full synthetic "believed" they had gotten just that so...
If you really want that I'd recommend doing it yourself :)
Also, "Synthetic Blend" is generally 1% Synthetic / 99% regular - 100% scam. Honestly now, if you thought you needed Synthetic why would you have even considered such a thing ?
 

donmontalvo

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My Jeep dealer said they could void my warranty for going offroad on my Wrangler 😂
Thats hilarious! To be fair dealers have a rotating door of technicians, same as many other businesses.
 

CarbonSteel

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---For Anyone Searching for Facts---
- Started with brand new 2021 JL 2.0 Turbo with 14 miles and crystal clear oil.
- Planned first oil change at 1000 miles, however still being crystal clear, I waited.
- Oil stayed clean up to 2000 miles taking on a hint of darkness, decided it was time to change.
- Life happened and didn't change until 3000 miles. At this point the oil was black with a strong odor of gasoline 😒
- Thought; "this can't be good" and did some research.
- FOUND OUT >These engines (DI/Turbo) are known to dilute the oil with gas.
- THEREFORE > Will be changing the oil and filter every 3000 miles.
- BONUS > The only oil I found to publish the approved oil specs for the Jeep 2.0 Turbo AND was easily available was Pennzoil Platinum 5w-30.
I would run a couple of used oil analysis on it to see how much dilution and viscosity loss is occurring. At the same time, the gas smell is not a good way to measure dilution--even my MPI 3.6L can have a gas smell to the oil, but the average for my dilution for the past 55,000 miles is 0.9%. Most OEMs use 2.5% as the limit and there have been 2.0T engines on this forum with 3.7% in only 4K miles.

A few other thoughts:

1. Direct injected engines are known for fuel dilution in the oil. Some are worse than others and there does not seem to be a consistent reason as to why the variations.

2. While running at operating temperatures for extended times can help reduce dilution, it can be inevitable.

3. Extended idling and/or short tripping the vehicle can make fuel dilution worse.

4. Though oil viscosity is typically not impacted to the point of increased engine wear, DI engines should not run extended OCIs.

5. The only solution to compensate for fuel dilution is to change the oil.

6. Increasing oil viscosity can counter the effects of fuel dilution to a point (e.g. increase from xW-30 to xW-40).

7. Different oil brands handle fuel dilution better than others. I had two MB DI turbo engines (2.0T and 3.0TT) and neither of them liked Mobil 1 0W-40 even though it was the recommended brand/viscosity from MB. I ran Pennzoil Platinum Euro 0W-40 in the 2.0T and Castrol Euro 0W-40 in the 3.0TT and both of those oils tolerated fuel dilution better than M1 (less viscosity loss).

8. A leaking injector will contribute to fuel dilution so if you have a very high percentage of fuel in the oil, the injectors should be ruled out as a contributing factor.

9. You may want to consider trying a different oil brand (if you continue to have issues with dilution).
 

five9dak

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Very long oil change intervals are specified to drive down cost of ownership statistics, that much is true, and has been going on since the late 90s with premium brands.

Newer oils last more than 3000 miles. The truth is somewhere in between.
 


Xspurt

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I would never go back to the 3000 mile oil change of decades past but I'm leery of these 7500 mile and 10,000 mile recommendations. Sure, for the first 50k to 100k miles, I doubt problems will show up but auto manufacturers heavily subscribe to the designed obsolescence model and I have no doubt they would tell us what we want to hear about oil changes and such.

They won't lie about octane recommendations because going below the recommended number and then straining the engine could cause immediate damage that they couldn't wiggle out of if under warranty but the dirty oil in the engine is like eating too much cholesterol ... it takes a long time to kill ya.

What changed my mind on this and keeps me at 5k as the max? Watching what happens to even the best synthetic oils when only 5% gasoline is added. Then consider these stop/start schemes and cylinder deactivation schemes and you will start to realize the importance of keeping the oil free from gasoline in particular, not to mention other contaminants and heat. The making of oil (gasoline getting into the oil) is already a huge issue on the 4XE. I'm sure it's happening (to a lesser degree) to all of our engine choices.

Changing at 3k miles is and was most likely wasteful and unnecessary but going over 5k (7.5k for a diesel) is something I'm not going to do even if I don't plan on keeping the vehicle long term.
 

CarbonSteel

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There is only one defacto way to know when the oil should be changed and that is to analyze the oil. The iOLM's (intelligent oil life monitors) have improved in recent years and are no longer simply mileage counters, but they are in no way as accurate as an analysis that will tell you the fuel percentages, the viscosity loss of the oil, and the active additive remaining.

As an example, the iOLM on my 3.6L (which does not really suffer from dilution) typically shows 50% oil life remaining at 5K miles and yet the analysis shows that very little active additive is remaining. If I were to believe the iOLM, I should be able to go close to 10K miles on an oil change and chemically, that is not possible.

Analyzing the oil and using fuel content, viscosity loss along with the Total Base Number (TBN) will allow you to make a very informed decision on how long the oil can be used. Everything else is a guess...
 

Hennessey17

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I'm not overly worried if I go a little longer, but it is a turbo engine, so I do play it safe...

I have it changed once in the spring and once in fall... I average about 1K miles a month.

Over the course of ownership, it's about an extra $200 to change between 6/7.5k mile instead of waiting til 10K. I'm comfortable with that.
 

CarbonSteel

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I'm not overly worried if I go a little longer, but it is a turbo engine, so I do play it safe...

I have it changed once in the spring and once in fall... I average about 1K miles a month.

Over the course of ownership, it's about an extra $200 to change between 6/7.5k mile instead of waiting til 10K. I'm comfortable with that.
I would never go 10K on a turbocharged, direct injected engine given the fuel dilution and viscosity loss that is inevitable. You are wise in your plans.
 

Xspurt

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I doubt the onboard vehicle oil monitors are more than either an LED measuring how much light passes through the oil or more likely they work like the MPG meter and use time and rpm and just do statistical math without measuring anything.
 


CarbonSteel

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I doubt the onboard vehicle oil monitors are more than either an LED measuring how much light passes through the oil or more likely they work like the MPG meter and use time and rpm and just do statistical math without measuring anything.
^^^ This is how most modern iOLMs work.

They use an algorithm along with time/miles/RPMs/operating temperatures to determine OCI.
 

Tyler-98-W68

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I doubt the onboard vehicle oil monitors are more than either an LED measuring how much light passes through the oil or more likely they work like the MPG meter and use time and rpm and just do statistical math without measuring anything.
The automatic oil change indication system, at least on my 4xe has a TON of parameters you can monitor (which i'm doing) and trying to track down the parameters which cause FORM (fuel oil refresh mode) if anyone has J-Scan they can look at a lot of the variables. It way more than an LED, but it's not like the PCM would lie about stuff like that. But i'm curious look at the video below and tell me?


 

Steph1

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My 2019 JLU was bought with an extended warranty, which at my dealer, gave me 8 oil changes, 12 with Jeeps free oil changes.(I know nothings free).
I also insisted full synthetic oil for my Jeep, which at the first change(2,000) my dealer said; no it requires semi-synthetic, I told them, NO, it was part of my extended warranty and if not, I don't want the warranty, guess who won?
Full synthetic, 5w-20w changes, at 3-4 thousand mile. The dealer told me that they use Pennzoil, per manufacturer!
Lol, if I was you, I’d insist to be there for your next oil change, otherwise I know who won and it ain’t you my friend.
 

redwolf698

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My favorite part of this thread is how EVERY post is absolutely positive that they are right and speak ONLY the truth.

I'm not right, I'm just a guy who used to rotate tires, change oil, and turn wrenches. I owned the transmission shop, and I was a solid "B" tech. In my ridiculously uneducated opinion, if the service advisor told you to do more frequent 3-5K oil changes, he may have believed it to be a good suggestion. It's doubtful the $50 oil change package would help his average ticket cost (matrix in how well they get paid) and may have been an honest interpretation of his understanding.

Like SO MANY posts said here, there is clearly no one simple answer, you have to do your own homework, research your brands, the suggestions, and make your OWN informed decision about what to do. I think it's got a butt ton less to do with MILEAGE on an oil change and lot more to do with USE. If I am doing little short start-stops, I want to change my oil more frequently. That's MY decision. If I run highway miles, I'll let it go a bit more.

Overall - it seems like the best part of the whole thing is you get to use your free will to make your own determination!
 

Murphydog

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I wonder how many service advisors would send an email from their work account saying "you can't follow/trust the oil change reminder in your Jeep, come in and see us every 3,000 miles for an oil change instead"

I am willing to bet virtually none would agree to do that.

 

Randy Marion CDJR
 
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